The "Learning to ride a Vendetta" diary

[Tor Hovland]

All right, as alluded to in this thread over here, I am logging my experience as I learn how to ride a Vendetta. I was originally going to buy a new Vendetta V20, but as the medium size is out of stock, that hasn't happened. But as luck would have it, we were planning to spend the summer in Grimstad, where Peder, the Norwegian Cruzbike distributor, lives, and he was in turn planning to go away on his vacation. Thus, it made perfect sense to ask him to let me rent his private Vendetta (ha, "private Vendetta" sounds quite cool )

Anyway, being the nice guy he is, he agreed. We arrived in Grimstad yesterday, and I promptly went to pick up the bike. Here it is:

Peder helped to check the fit, then we mounted my platform pedals and went for a short test ride. I was very curious about this part. Would it be impossibly hard to get rolling on this thing? Or would it turn out to be easy? I have no experience with MBB bikes, but I own a Bacchetta Giro 26 and thus have a fair bit of experience with recumbent cycling. As it turned out, flintstoning the bike down a hill was no problem. But as soon as I tried lifting my feet to the pedals, the bike immediately raised an additional layer of challenge. In short, the feet on the pedals interfered with the steering done by my arms. It was, however, always easy to put the feet down in time whenever I felt out of control.

A little later, I was indeed able to ride with the feet on the pedals and actually turning the cranks, although the gearing was so low that I was just spinning the drivetrain, not powering the bike.

We put the bike on my car and I drove off, eager to get more acquainted to the bike. Here I am, ready for the second test ride:

To my great delight, I found being able to ride the bike quite a bit easier than anticipated. After a few more minutes of practice, I could run the bike up and down the neighborhood streets.

Here is a video of some of the less convincing parts

I look forward to riding this bike a lot the next couple of weeks!

 

[Jeremy S]

Starting while lying back in the seat looks nice and relaxing... I never learned to do that on my Silvio, I always start sitting up straight.

 

[Mwhwsmith]

JeremyS - that was the key for me. Once I stopped trying to set off while fully reclined, it made the whole starting experience easier.

I also found I was very sensitive to being in the right gear: too low or too high and I wouldn't get enough momentum to get going.

M

 

[LMT]

It looks from the video that you are looking at your feet as you ride along? If you are then try and focus ahead onto the horzon instead.

Also you may find easier pulling away in a higher gear as I've come to find. A higher gear means a larger spread of power through the pedal stroke rather then what is short burst in a lower gear which could potentially lead to greater pedal steer.

Keep at it though, there really is no better bike I've ridden. And that's from someone who has owned a Low Baron and a Metaphysic.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Thank you, guys. I tried sitting up a little bit, and it definitely made starting easier.

And now for the report from the first full day of Vendetta riding. The short version is: Wow!

I was honestly expecting to have to practice in the street outside the house for several days before I could go on any sort of ride, although the successful acquaintance made yesterday gave me the hope of more rapid progress. I set a goal to try to ride 5 km, and if that went well, maybe extend it to 10 km. After breakfast I took the bike around the neighborhood streets. That went well. When I was about to venture to the main road outside the neighborhood, the lack of a bicycle path made me turn around for more local practice. I did not feel confident enough to ride along in traffic yet, even if traffic is rather light. After a short while, I realized I had effortlessly ridden 3 km, and decided I was ready for another challenge. I went back to the main road, but rather than going to the right, I turned to the left, where there actually is a bicycle path. Only problem is, it is uphill. But the 5% grade turned out to be quite manageable. At one point, where I had to cross a side road, I had to stop and restart. It took a few tries, but I got going again. It was not quite as steep at that point, otherwise I suppose I wouldn't have managed it. At the top of the hill, I could basically just follow the bicycle path for a long way. The riding needed pretty much all of my concentration, and I was wobbling a bit, but not too bad. I could easily keep to the right when meeting other cyclists and so on. But I took it easy. I never tried the large chainring. Eventually I turned and rode back. When I got home, I had ridden 23 km! Not bad for a first proper test ride. The ride can be seen on Strava.

But that was just the morning ride. In order to intensify the practice, I have been planning two rides per day. So in the evening, I decided the next goal should be to ride 30 km. I planned a route and set off. Already I was feeling more confident, taking off without thinking about it too much, and going into (light) traffic without worrying about it. The ride I had planned consisted mostly of roads to be shared with cars. Luckily, there wasn't a lot of them around that needed to pass me. At moderate speed, I could ride in a pretty straight line. I was confident enough to shift to the large chainring and cruise comfortably with my head on the headrest, but not confident enough to go really fast. Peder had told me to go slowly for the first rides, until I got used to the handling, and I heeded that advice. I am also not confident yet to pedal downhill. But keep in mind this is only day 1!

In the end, the ride was 33 km. It can be seen on Strava. Average speed was 22 km/h, while the morning ride was 18. Top speed so far seems to be 42.8 km/h.

I'm really happy with the way things are progressing. I would never have thought that a reasonable target for day 2 is to go for a 50 km ride, but I suppose it is.

 

[SamP]

That's really good performance for the amount of time you've been on the bike.

 

[1happyreader]

Make some time for the boring parking lot stuff,,,, almost stops, slow turns, ect it will pay off.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

I remember back in April when I was learning to rider the V. It was very difficult at first. But every time I went for another ride, it was easier than the time before. Now I'm as stable as I was on a DF. It just took practice and adaptation over and over. Keep it up.

 

[Robert Holler]

EXCELLENT!!!!!

 

[Tor Hovland]

Thank you all for the support. I agree I should spend some time doing a bit more parking lot practice. I can't go on two long rides every day anyway, so it would be a nice excuse to drop some of those

This morning I did the 50 km ride as planned. It is available on Strava. To be honest, it wasn't quite such a nice ride as the one yesterday evening, but that wasn't the bike's fault. I had been planning the route through a bicycle track that I was a little unsure about. I had a suspicion that it was unpaved, but was hoping that the surface would be packed and sufficiently firm for the slim road tires on Peder's Vendetta. As it turned out, the surface was rather loose and not at all rideable. The track is classified as being part of a national bicycle route, but they clearly had mountain bikes in mind. So I had to push the bike up the inclines and roll with my feet on the ground down. This went on for 5 km. Like I said, I don't blame the bike for this. Any road bike would struggle.

My skills seem to be increasing further. Before the ride I had expected to improve my average speed, but due to the gravel road and some navigation misses, I didn't. I did, however set a new maximum speed at 53.6 km/h. Today I was also able to drink from my water bottle at speed. And I can ride up relatively steep inclines. Starting doesn't seem like a big deal anymore. But I am still wobbling quite a bit at low speeds, such as when climbing. And I am not comfortable with pedaling at high speed.

Speaking about pedaling, I brought both platform pedals and SPDs for this summer experiment. The idea was to use the platforms for getting acquainted, and promptly switch to SPDs the minute I could get rolling on the thing. I have always used SPDs on my Bacchetta, and I have been telling people that this just makes more sense on a recumbent, to help keep the feet up without any effort. But I'm surprised to find that platform pedals and leisure shoes work flawlessly. I feel absolutely no frustration or discomfort, and it is of course very convenient to be able to put my feet down whenever I feel out of control.

I have also had no issues at all with the seat. It is certainly different from the banana shaped seat on my Bacchetta, which I like a lot, but I have had no discomfort during the few rides I have put in so far. Only time will tell if the same can be said for even longer rides.

So, what kind of issues have I had? Only a few. First of all, I have a problem with my helmet and the headrest. Peder has mounted a bag over the headrest, and the padding only covers the neck area, not the actual bend where my head rests. This is a bit uncomfortable, and it is not made any better by the fact that the helmet neck adjustment insists on placing itself between my head and the rest. Any bumps in the road are transferred directly to the back of my head, and even medium size bumps feel like a potential concussion. I can see on Robert's headrest adjustment video that the V20 has plenty of padding, but I'm still curious how people deal with interfering helmets. I see Maria rides with a helmet, and it looks to me that she also gets the adjustment band in just the wrong place, at least she would if her helmet is designed like mine.

The other issue is with sunglasses. With the amount of recline on the bike, my head is pointing slightly towards the sky, and in order to look at the road I need to be looking through the bottom edge of the glasses. Perhaps this is related to the headrest issue, and I should adjust it so my head is more level. It would also help with more padding, of course.

Finally, it must be noted that the ride is very harsh over rough surfaces. I was completely prepared for that, and I know that the Silvio is Cruzbike's response to that. Ideally I wouldn't have to choose between speed and comfort, but since I have to, I think what I want is the fastest bike possible, and I'm prepared to sacrifice some comfort for that. Riding on good quality tarmac is smooth as silk. But I like to ride on bicycle ways whenever they are available, at least now as I get used to the bike, and they are generally much less smooth. This isn't something I think about on other bikes, but on the Vendetta it becomes very pronounced indeed.

Not sure what to try next tomorrow. I didn't feel tired during or after yesterday's rides, but as soon as I got on the bike today, I could feel the miles in my thighs. Maybe I'll just go for a short ride tomorrow, and maybe I'll schedule some of that parking lot practice.

 

[Lief]

Awesome Tor!

Speaking about pedaling, I brought both platform pedals and SPDs for this summer experiment. The idea was to use the platforms for getting acquainted, and promptly switch to SPDs the minute I could get rolling on the thing. I have always used SPDs on my Bacchetta, and I have been telling people that this just makes more sense on a recumbent, to help keep the feet up without any effort. But I'm surprised to find that platform pedals and leisure shoes work flawlessly. I feel absolutely no frustration or discomfort, and it is of course very convenient to be able to put my feet down whenever I feel out of control.

That said...when you do clip in it allows you to relax quite a bit more. Your thighs and hip muscles will be needed less and getting out of the clips has never been a problem for me; but being a previous recumbent rider I'm sure that's your experience as well.

Parking lot practice will pay off as well.
Good luck!

 

[Lief]

And I am not comfortable with pedaling at high speed.

This will be helped with SPD Clipless as well.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

Finally, it must be noted that the ride is very harsh over rough surfaces. I was completely prepared for that, and I know that the Silvio is Cruzbike's response to that. Ideally I wouldn't have to choose between speed and comfort, but since I have to, I think what I want is the fastest bike possible, and I'm prepared to sacrifice some comfort for that. Riding on good quality tarmac is smooth as silk. But I like to ride on bicycle ways whenever they are available, at least now as I get used to the bike, and they are generally much less smooth. This isn't something I think about on other bikes, but on the Vendetta it becomes very pronounced indeed.

I experienced the same problem with the rough ride. Around here, a lot of the roads are not good, so this is a big problem. My eyeballs got vibrated so much I couldn't see. My solution was to copy another Vendetta rider (Rick Youngblood). I installed a Volae seat (size: large), an ADEM headrest, a Ventisit pad on the seat, and a Ventisit pad to replace the stock pad on the ADEM headrest. The stock headrest would transmit vibration directly from the frame to my head. With the new setup, the vibration is damped by the carbon fiber seat first, and then by the headrest. This makes rough roads tolerable. Now I use the stock headrest tube to hold my water bottle cages and storage bag behind the seat in an aerodynamic position. I'm very happy with this setup. I have achieved the comfort I expect and have maintained the speed I want. There is no need to trade one for the other.

 

[JOSEPHWEISSERT]

I can see on Robert's headrest adjustment video that the V20 has plenty of padding, but I'm still curious how people deal with interfering helmets. I see Maria rides with a helmet, and it looks to me that she also gets the adjustment band in just the wrong place, at least she would if her helmet is designed like mine.

The other issue is with sunglasses. With the amount of recline on the bike, my head is pointing slightly towards the sky, and in order to look at the road I need to be looking through the bottom edge of the glasses. Perhaps this is related to the headrest issue, and I should adjust it so my head is more level. It would also help with more padding, of course.

The combination of a Volae seat, an ADEM headrest, and a Giro Attack Shield helmet solved the problems with both the glasses and with the helmet adjustment for me.

 

[ratz]

Great Progress reports loving them.

But I am still wobbling quite a bit at low speeds, such as when climbing. And I am not comfortable with pedaling at high speed.

Figure 8's in the car park will solve that; it's still the best solution. You can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat. Seriously put a bunch of time in doing slow speed maneuvers your brain doesn't have any path ways for coping with the wobble and the slow speed drills are the safest way to learn them.

I have a problem with my helmet and the headrest.

Technically It's a neck rest; if you position it correctly; the helmet should be above the rest and you won't be looking at the sky. If you have it set too far back you will be star gazing and have a lot of helmet interference. After getting it set right then it's just a matter of finding a helmet that has the back of the head straps in the right place to prevent interference. Maria (having seen her Silvio setup) cuts off the bottom half of the neck rest padding The desnse lower loader part, and doubles up the foam part leaving it all mounted on the top half of the rest so that the helmet strap doesn't have anything to hit. The wife and I have had good luck with Giro helmets on the V and S setups. Eric had to "notch" his seat to get the neck rest far enough forward for his shorter height.

 

[jond]

Thank you all for the support. I agree I should spend some time doing a bit more parking lot practice. I can't go on two long rides every day anyway, so it would be a nice excuse to drop some of those

This morning I did the 50 km ride as planned. It is available on Strava. To be honest, it wasn't quite such a nice ride as the one yesterday evening, but that wasn't the bike's fault. I had been planning the route through a bicycle track that I was a little unsure about. I had a suspicion that it was unpaved, but was hoping that the surface would be packed and sufficiently firm for the slim road tires on Peder's Vendetta. As it turned out, the surface was rather loose and not at all rideable. The track is classified as being part of a national bicycle route, but they clearly had mountain bikes in mind. So I had to push the bike up the inclines and roll with my feet on the ground down. This went on for 5 km. Like I said, I don't blame the bike for this. Any road bike would struggle.

My skills seem to be increasing further. Before the ride I had expected to improve my average speed, but due to the gravel road and some navigation misses, I didn't. I did, however set a new maximum speed at 53.6 km/h. Today I was also able to drink from my water bottle at speed. And I can ride up relatively steep inclines. Starting doesn't seem like a big deal anymore. But I am still wobbling quite a bit at low speeds, such as when climbing. And I am not comfortable with pedaling at high speed.

Speaking about pedaling, I brought both platform pedals and SPDs for this summer experiment. The idea was to use the platforms for getting acquainted, and promptly switch to SPDs the minute I could get rolling on the thing. I have always used SPDs on my Bacchetta, and I have been telling people that this just makes more sense on a recumbent, to help keep the feet up without any effort. But I'm surprised to find that platform pedals and leisure shoes work flawlessly. I feel absolutely no frustration or discomfort, and it is of course very convenient to be able to put my feet down whenever I feel out of control.

I have also had no issues at all with the seat. It is certainly different from the banana shaped seat on my Bacchetta, which I like a lot, but I have had no discomfort during the few rides I have put in so far. Only time will tell if the same can be said for even longer rides.

So, what kind of issues have I had? Only a few. First of all, I have a problem with my helmet and the headrest. Peder has mounted a bag over the headrest, and the padding only covers the neck area, not the actual bend where my head rests. This is a bit uncomfortable, and it is not made any better by the fact that the helmet neck adjustment insists on placing itself between my head and the rest. Any bumps in the road are transferred directly to the back of my head, and even medium size bumps feel like a potential concussion. I can see on Robert's headrest adjustment video that the V20 has plenty of padding, but I'm still curious how people deal with interfering helmets. I see Maria rides with a helmet, and it looks to me that she also gets the adjustment band in just the wrong place, at least she would if her helmet is designed like mine.

The other issue is with sunglasses. With the amount of recline on the bike, my head is pointing slightly towards the sky, and in order to look at the road I need to be looking through the bottom edge of the glasses. Perhaps this is related to the headrest issue, and I should adjust it so my head is more level. It would also help with more padding, of course.

Finally, it must be noted that the ride is very harsh over rough surfaces. I was completely prepared for that, and I know that the Silvio is Cruzbike's response to that. Ideally I wouldn't have to choose between speed and comfort, but since I have to, I think what I want is the fastest bike possible, and I'm prepared to sacrifice some comfort for that. Riding on good quality tarmac is smooth as silk. But I like to ride on bicycle ways whenever they are available, at least now as I get used to the bike, and they are generally much less smooth. This isn't something I think about on other bikes, but on the Vendetta it becomes very pronounced indeed.

Not sure what to try next tomorrow. I didn't feel tired during or after yesterday's rides, but as soon as I got on the bike today, I could feel the miles in my thighs. Maybe I'll just go for a short ride tomorrow, and maybe I'll schedule some of that parking lot practice.

let the headrest out a cm this will bring your head into a more vertical position. experiment with small increments. take it easy. amazing progress.takes a long while to dial the bike in.

 

[hamishbarker]

Looks like peder's vendetta is a version 1.5 like mine but looks like it has large size chain stays from the bigger gap below the bb.

The 1.5 has a slightly lower head angle than later editions. wheel flop instability at low speed might be more than on the 2.0 and v20. Self stable speed of the vendettas has improved with the later editions according to the math modeling i did a few months back, and presumably found in test riding john t did when designing the v2.0

That said, I'm totally happy with my v1.5's handling.

Is there a bulging weld in the seat back about 15cm from the bottom on peder's alloy seat? If it gives you any trouble, try slipping some extra foam inside the seat cover to pad out the weld. On mine the weld was hitting the bones of my hips, but is fine now with extra foam.

 

[Tor Hovland]

Here's a video that demonstrates my current parking lot skills, at day 3. This was before I put in any practice. Note how much easier I am able to set off. This is not an editing trick, I genuinely set off without any false starts.

I'm really happy to see how you've responded to the issues I reported yesterday. I thought maybe I would offend you, but instead you are telling me how you've experienced the same issues and how you've tackled them. That's really helpful.

I've now adjusted the neck rest as far forward as I can have it, but my head is still resting on the unpadded rails, so it's not perfect. I'm definitely interested in the Volae/ADEM hack, but that will have to wait until I own an actual Cruzbike myself.

There is indeed a weld in the seat back, but I haven't noticed it on my rides so far. Maybe I will from now on, however

 

[1happyreader]

Yes Yes YES !!!
Your low speed control is looking good.
When you get your own frame fitted you will be unstoppable.

 

[LMT]

Nice going, a few more days and then go clipless?