Thinking of upgrading...

[Postapocalypsia]

Hi Folks,
I am quietly considering upgrading from (or adding to) my much loved Q559 to a new cruzbike, but am looking for advice and opinions on which way to go - Q45 or S40. I love the design and speed potential of the S40 but would miss the rear shock suspension. I love the versatility of the Q45 but it looks to me that the cockpit could be a bit cramped for my preference - I love straightish arms!
I would be using the bike for commuting and short touring on all manner of roads, hills and all. Speed is not the object but everyone wants more speed and endurance for less effort if possible!
Does anyone have experiences or tips to help me decide?

 

[paco1961]

Have never ridden the Q but have been on an S40 for just shy of 2 years after years of DFs. The S is a ridiculously versatile bike. I have ridden it in road races ranging from 25-100 miles and at least as competetive as I was 4 years ago on my titanium Lynskey DF. But I have also put on wider tires and hit gravel roads. Also commute from time to time. It can handle racks and bags of all kinds. As close to a do it all bike as I have ridden.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

Thanks for that Paul - the idea of wider tires appeals. I was curious to know if S40 riders suffered from having no suspension.

 

[super slim]

Hi Folks,
I am quietly considering upgrading from (or adding to) my much loved Q559 to a new cruzbike, but am looking for advice and opinions on which way to go - Q45 or S40. I love the design and speed potential of the S40 but would miss the rear shock suspension. I love the versatility of the Q45 but it looks to me that the cockpit could be a bit cramped for my preference - I love straightish arms!
I would be using the bike for commuting and short touring on all manner of roads, hills and all. Speed is not the object but everyone wants more speed and endurance for less effort if possible!
Does anyone have experiences or tips to help me decide?

You can add drop bars to the Q45 to improve the hand /wrist angles, but it will cost about $500 to do so, and be VERY careful about the gear lever pull/shift, compared to the derailleur pull/shift!
AND if using disc brakes, the disk actuators will need to be replaced, as road bikes have 10mm cable movement, compared to 27 mm for MTB.

In 2012, I added drop bars to my Quest V1.0, after riding down the US West coast from Canada to Mexico in 2011, to see if I would use my Silvio V1.0 or the Quest V1.0 for riding in Canada in 2013.
The Silvio won, due to VERY strong ($1000) 700c wheels with low rolling tyres, a stiff frame, and especially the Air front suspension!

If there won't be much US plane travel with the bike, I would go with the Silvio S40 with the largest tyres possible and run the tyres at the recommended pressures from the link below!
http://www.adventurecycling.org/default/assets/resources/200903_PSIRX_Heine.pdf

 

[Postapocalypsia]

...Thanks @superslim, I admit I know nothing about Air front suspension - what can you tell me about that? Unless it is just shorthand for bigger tires?

 

[paco1961]

Thanks for that Paul - the idea of wider tires appeals. I was curious to know if S40 riders suffered from having no suspension.

I do not miss the suspension but then the only thing I’ve ever ridden w suspension was a mtb so what do I know . . .

 

[billyk]

I have only a few miles test ride on an S40, but several thousand on my Q45. So FWIW.

I also upgraded from my Q559 after more than 10k miles. It was a major, major upgrade, no worries that you won't feel like you've made a big change. Way stiffer, faster (especially uphill) ... the fat boom without those intermediate connectors is just a better design. You'll notice that right away.

However, it might be harder to straight-arm without changing the handlebars as @super slim suggests. I went through some contortions because I also like to sit upright (lot of riding in urban traffic), and also like only a small elbow bend. Those two things contradict on the Q45 unless you want to lean the seat back - which is easy to do, it has plenty of possible lean - I just didn't want to. Finally have it dialed in with maybe a 45° elbow bend.

It's worth mentioning that while the seat of the S40 is fixed at 40°, the Q45 angle is highly adjustable (almost the same setup as the earlier Qs). So if you like leaning back, you have one more adjustment to play with.

I do not find the cockpit at all cramped.

I also replaced the heavy stock shock with the Kind air shock. Yeah, it's great, especially on the crappy roads we have around here.

The stock 1x11 derailleur works smoothly and handles what I need, though I'm no speed demon.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

The other contributing factor of course, is budget! I think if I was looking at the S40 I would have to go for the frameset as the AUS dollar comes up just under US70c.
The Q45 is a bit cheaper which makes it more practical I guess.
I share your preference to sitting more upright @billyk - it seems easier for urban obstacles. Do you have any pics to show your handlebar position?
My Q559 has the kind airshock replacement - is it the same fit or a different size?

 

[super slim]

The Silvio V1., V1.5, V2.0, and early S30 had Kind Shock A5-Fa1, air shock in the steer tube, and a Speedone TwoCAMM titanium and Carbon Fibre chain stay.



https://www.speedonebike.com/_en/technology_detail.php?id=14

The rear suspension is a Poly spring + a top locating and main Titanium spring, and a Titanium+ locating CF lower stay, as per the Speedone TwoCAMM white bike in the link above!

With 700*28 tyres, on the Silvio V1.0, the front suspension makes a huge difference on South Australian ROUGH bike paths!
For the rear suspension, I added an air bag (Firestone 2M2A) and reduced the rear titanium plate from 1.6mm to 0.47mm to increase the rear from 10 mm to 20 mm supple movement.

I could not do this for a Silvio S30, so I am still playing with softening the rear Poly spring.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

The Silvio V1., V1.5, V2.0, and early S30 had Kind Shock A5-Fa1, air shock in the steer tube, and a Speedone TwoCAMM titanium and Carbon Fibre chain stay.

View attachment 8775

https://www.speedonebike.com/_en/technology_detail.php?id=14

The rear suspension is a Poly spring + a top locating and main Titanium spring, and a Titanium+ locating CF lower stay, as per the Speedone TwoCAMM white bike in the link above!

With 700*28 tyres, on the Silvio V1.0, the front suspension makes a huge difference on South Australian ROUGH bike paths!
For the rear suspension, I added an air bag (Firestone 2M2A) and reduced the rear titanium plate from 1.6mm to 0.47mm to increase the rear from 10 mm to 20 mm supple movement.

I could not do this for a Silvio S30, so I am still playing with softening the rear Poly spring.

Thanks for the info @super slim - I don't think the S40 has any suspension options other than bigger tires and a forgiving butt.
you mentioned drop bars for a Q - do all drop bars require the use of drop bar brake setups or could a Q45 get away with a compromise bar and standard brakes? I know there has been a lot of discussion on handlebar selection, and it comes down to personal preference but I really try to avoid bent arms if possible and the Q45 looks like there isn't a lot of arm length adjustment with the standard bars...

 

[billyk]

the Q45 looks like there isn't a lot of arm length adjustment with the standard bars...

Yes, there are lots of ways to adjust it (and the Q has more adjustments than the S40 because you can lean the seat back, also slide the seat pan forward or back), but the pedal-to-hip distance is fixed by your body, and there can be knee clearance issues.

I ended up replacing the handlebar with one that bent up to clear my knees, then flared out so I could straighten my arms. This is a tricky choice, because the wrist angle also matters.

Some experimentation is in your future ...

 

[Postapocalypsia]

Yes, there are lots of ways to adjust it (and the Q has more adjustments than the S40 because you can lean the seat back, also slide the seat pan forward or back), but the pedal-to-hip distance is fixed by your body, and there can be knee clearance issues.

I ended up replacing the handlebar with one that bent up to clear my knees, then flared out so I could straighten my arms. This is a tricky choice, because the wrist angle also matters.

Some experimentation is in your future ...

Do you recall the make and model of your new handlebars? I agree, it is a tricky choice but if I see what works for others it may help me make some choices.
I use Soma Sparrow bars which suit me very well on the Q559, but of course the boom arrangement is different there...

 

[super slim]

Do you recall the make and model of your new handlebars? I agree, it is a tricky choice but if I see what works for others it may help me make some choices.
I use Soma Sparrow bars which suit me very well on the Q559, but of course the boom arrangement is different there...

On the Silvio V1.0 with a 45 degree seat back I used WTB Dirt Drops, with a 127 mm drop, and on the Silvio S30 with a 28 degree seat back, Salsa Cowchipper 2 with a 116mm drop!

 

[bladderhead]

the front suspension makes a huge difference

When I first got my Silvio I pumped the Kind shock up so hard it was completely rigid. Very hard ride. Pinch flats twice a week. I was trying to get the back suspension to be softer or longer travel. I cut a powerball in half and stuck it in there. Eventually my brain worked and I let some air out. It made the back suspension seem softer. Kind shock is not as nice as springs, but definitely better than nothing.

 

[super slim]

When I first got my Silvio I pumped the Kind shock up so hard it was completely rigid. Very hard ride. Pinch flats twice a week. I was trying to get the back suspension to be softer or longer travel. I cut a powerball in half and stuck it in there. Eventually my brain worked and I let some air out. It made the back suspension seem softer. Kind shock is not as nice as springs, but definitely better than nothing.

I think the front air shock on the Silvio is MUCH better than the spring only fronts on the Softrider and Quest, as the air spring rate increases as there is suspension movement, compared to a fixed coil spring rate, that can not be changed unless you change the spring! The base air spring rate can be adjusted by adding or removing air pressure, during a ride!

 

[3bs]

the only real answer here that i can determine is

N + 2

 

[onmyback]

Hi Folks,
I am quietly considering upgrading from (or adding to) my much loved Q559 to a new cruzbike, but am looking for advice and opinions on which way to go - Q45 or S40. I love the design and speed potential of the S40 but would miss the rear shock suspension. I love the versatility of the Q45 but it looks to me that the cockpit could be a bit cramped for my preference - I love straightish arms!
I would be using the bike for commuting and short touring on all manner of roads, hills and all. Speed is not the object but everyone wants more speed and endurance for less effort if possible!
Does anyone have experiences or tips to help me decide?

I bought a Q45, 18 months ago, primarily as a commuter. It replaced my Vision USS SWB and I kept my Optima Baron HR as my sport/fun bike. The Q45 is both my first MBB and first suspension bike. It is cushy (though the seat could be better padded), but I don't feel like the suspension is worth the loss of steering precision, sensitivity to even pannier loading, complication of mounting things or additional weight. I have the seat almost all the way reclined and yes, the cockpit is a bit cramped. If I did it again, I'd get the S40.

 

[Postapocalypsia]

the only real answer here that i can determine is

N + 2

N + 2 +?

 

[Postapocalypsia]

I bought a Q45, 18 months ago, primarily as a commuter. It replaced my Vision USS SWB and I kept my Optima Baron HR as my sport/fun bike. The Q45 is both my first MBB and first suspension bike. It is cushy (though the seat could be better padded), but I don't feel like the suspension is worth the loss of steering precision, sensitivity to even pannier loading, complication of mounting things or additional weight. I have the seat almost all the way reclined and yes, the cockpit is a bit cramped. If I did it again, I'd get the S40.

Thanks for that!
I guess the tweaked Q559 is pretty good for local trails but the notion of speed and endurance is appealing for sure.

 

[benphyr]

N + 2 +?

N is the number of bikes you currently have, N + 1 is the usual phrase and means that you always want just one more bike than you already have, N + 2 then is get them both then you can ride either depending on your mood/needs... A bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment but then again who knows, many people have different bikes for different needs

Thanks for that!
I guess the tweaked Q559 is pretty good for local trails but the notion of speed and endurance is appealing for sure.

I would say that if you have the Q559 you have a reasonable idea of the Q45's abilities. I might be missing some but here are some of the improvements/advantages/disadvantages compared with your Q559:

Differences for both:
-1x chainring up front (simpler gearing) (personal preference will decide whether this is an advantage or disadvantage) this can be changed with relative ease as you wish

Q559:
-possibly front suspension
-Well maintained, solid pickup truck/SUV
-grass is always greener...

Q45:
-stiffer front end (more efficient, better steering, lighter?)
-longer rear shock travel and more standard size shock (even cushier ride, more options to upgrade)
-comes with and possibility for bigger tires,
-same Mountain Bike componentry
-can be disassembled for shipping / car trunk quite easily
-only 56% the $ as S40 leaving ample room for upgrades (but can't upgrade the biggest impact on overall purpose = frame)
=serious name brand SUV or new pickup truck (definitely not old farm truck)

S40:
-same front end as Q45 (more efficient, better steering, lighter?)
-no rear suspension (but longer and bigger tires so this might not impact depending on your riding surfaces)
-comes with an possibility for bigger tires (maybe not as big as Q but if you get the S you are not likely wanting THAT big of tires)
-Road bike componentry
-lighter weight
=Fancy Sports Car/SUV eg. Porsche Macan Turbo

V20:
-nothing spared super sports car eg.Ferrari

I guess some part of the decision is: do I want an upgrade with similar or a different purpose = fast touring. (I guess that would more accurately just say "fast.".)
Am I keeping the Q559? How much $ do I want to spend? That is, does the difference in $ force the decision? Will I always regret not getting the xxx?

And are there ones in your neighbourhood that you could test ride?