This question is blasphemous - V20 Seat Angle

[Bentsoup]

Since the S30 is such a rare find these days, but the V20 is fairly plentiful, if I purchased a V20 but hated the seat angle, are there any options at all to raise it close to the 30 degree angle of the S30?

Yeah I know, yall can send me to the cruzbike prison for this question.

 

[cpml123]

Since the S30 is such a rare find these days, but the V20 is fairly plentiful, if I purchased a V20 buy hated the seat angle, are there any options at all to raise it close to the 30 degree angle of the S30?

Yeah I know, yall can send me to the cruzbike prison for this question.

Mine is about 25 degrees or so. You can add the foam cushion behind the pad to raise it. Or if you have a Thor seat, you can put rubber blocks between the seat and the frame to raise the angle.

 

[Bentsoup]

Mine is about 25 degrees or so. You can add the foam cushion behind the pad to raise it. Or if you have a Thor seat, you can put rubber blocks between the seat and the frame to raise the angle.

The one I'm looking at has the Thor seat! No idea why I didn't think to ask this question already as I'm killing myself looking for an S30 (because of the seat angle). This helps out a lot!

 

[chicorider]

I mentioned this as a side remark on a different thread, but if CB did a single, limited run of S30s, built like the current S40, I bet they'd sell pretty quickly and easily, for there are people looking for that 30 degree recline angle. It would probably not make business sense for a small bike company to do this, but such a bike would sure have fans.

I love my V20c and S30. But when I owned an S40, it gave me such horrible recumbutt that I decided to sell it (that, and it was too redundant with the S30). If they put out an S40-style S30, I'd probably sell my current S30 and buy that new one.

 

[Bentsoup]

I mentioned this as a side remark on a different thread, but if CB did a single, limited run of S30s, built like the current S40, I bet they'd sell pretty quickly and easily, for there are people looking for that 30 degree recline angle. It would probably not make business sense for a small bike company to do this, but such a bike would sure have fans.

I love my V20c and S30. But when I owned an S40, it gave me such horrible recumbutt that I decided to sell it (that, and it was too redundant with the S30). If they put out an S40-style S30, I'd probably sell my current S30 and buy that new one.

I would 100% purchase one. I am willing to give the V20 angle a shot, but I'm honestly worried. I didn't like my VTX seat angle. If a Thor seat and rubber blocks can get me close, I'm sure it'll be fine. But yeah, I kick myself for selling that S30.

 

[cpml123]

I would 100% purchase one. I am willing to give the V20 angle a shot, but I'm honestly worried. I didn't like my VTX seat angle. If a Thor seat and rubber blocks can get me close, I'm sure it'll be fine. But yeah, I kick myself for selling that S30.

I have never tried S30, but Thor seat with rubber block on my V20 definitely works for me. Also a curved slider helps to see ahead.

 

[Bentsoup]

I have never tried S30, but Thor seat with rubber block on my V20 definitely works for me. Also a curved slider helps to see ahead.

Both will be the first thing I purchase if I can't get one already installed!

 

[Henri]

Another stupid Idea: Smaller wheel in the front. That would lean rhe entire bike forward, not only including the seat, but also the steering. (Could also do it with the rear wheel of the S40, of course. That would change steering angle in the other direction. So you could choose what angle would be less worse. XD )

 

[Tuloose]

I had an S30 for a few years and later on purchased a V20 and I much prefer the V. My S had suspension so the V sits lower and is way comfortable. I'm using stock seat and headrest.
I initially thought the 20 deg seat was too radical but discovered that it is perfect. I did add a piece of yoga mat foam to the headrest for comfort and better head position.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Mine is about 25 degrees or so. You can add the foam cushion behind the pad to raise it. Or if you have a Thor seat, you can put rubber blocks between the seat and the frame to raise the angle.

+1
I have 1cm of padding under my butt on the OEM seat, 2cm in the lumbar area, and 2cm for my upper back. It increased my angle a little I guess, but when it is time to finally change the padding I will use a thinner pad at the very least under my butt just so I am sitting on more than just the Ventisit.

 

[cruzKurt]

v20 seat is hard mounted to the aluminum extrusion, I am pretty sure it could be easliy shimmed to a 30 degree angle. As a matter of fact, I had a v20 with a Thor seat once and it required shimming to be mounted. Ride for a couple hours multiple times per week and honestly I don't even full lean back most of the time.

 

[Opik]

Im just wondering if Cruzbike isnt already working on the seat angle question and how it changes body positioning related to the bike geometry ( you know, the change of handlebar, BB, pedal, etc positioning related to your body when the seat angle changes).

I think maybe in the next years, Cruzbike would have a bike that can easily change its seat angle and positioning vertically and horizontally. So it will make the V20 and S40 redundant.

 

[castlerobber]

Another stupid Idea: Smaller wheel in the front. That would lean rhe entire bike forward, not only including the seat, but also the steering. (Could also do it with the rear wheel of the S40, of course. That would change steering angle in the other direction. So you could choose what angle would be less worse. XD )

Someone tried a small rear wheel on their Sofrider years ago (26" front, 16" rear). Unfortunately the photos didn't survive an upgrade to the forum software the next year.

 

[Henri]

So it will make the V20 and S40 redundant.

S40 and V20 are light and have a very efficient drive train. Both are in part achieved by mounting the seat flush on the frame. Any method of adjustable seat angle should come with considerable drawbacks.
Adjustable seats are nothing new and Cruzbike have some on Q45 and T50 and they might make sportier version or an option to raise the seat of the V20, but I don't see S40 and V20 with directly attached seat becoming obsolete.

 

[3bs]

a v20 with a thor seat isnt really a 20 degree seat angle anymore due to the kick up of the thor seat. that said i use different pad shims between my ventisit and my seat on my thor seat depending on where i am riding. cheap easy and very custom to your specific tastes.

 

[Opik]

S40 and V20 are light and have a very efficient drive train. Both are in part achieved by mounting the seat flush on the frame. Any method of adjustable seat angle should come with considerable drawbacks.
Adjustable seats are nothing new and Cruzbike have some on Q45 and T50 and they might make sportier version or an option to raise the seat of the V20, but I don't see S40 and V20 with directly attached seat becoming obsolete.

I could also argue making the front boom fixed makes for a more eficient drive train and power transfer compared to an adjustable boom, which is the case for bachetta and Mystique.

I like standardization to make life easy for customers. Maybe Crusbike could make one thats has seat attachment like the ones Schlitter and Mystique, so we dont have different seat attachment standards.

 

[Bentsoup]

a v20 with a thor seat isnt really a 20 degree seat angle anymore due to the kick up of the thor seat. that said i use different pad shims between my ventisit and my seat on my thor seat depending on where i am riding. cheap easy and very custom to your specific tastes.

What seat angle does it change to? Is it an angle range based on how it's installed?

 

[ratz]

What seat angle does it change to? Is it an angle range based on how it's installed?

Depends on the install mine is 20degree in the spin because I make a it that way; but you shoulders are rotated forward and that's the point that causes drag.

Measure height of shoulder from ground and height of butt from ground.
Subtract (shoulder - butt) and you have the size of your wind wall. The short you make that the more aero you are.

The Thor seat overcomes that with better air intake going up hills; you get 5-15% more watts cause you can breath @RojoRacing provided it and I concur; and more power on the flat if you brace against the seat and trade knee health for power.

I suspect the new CB Carbon seat will be better; and the testing will be a few weeks out after the build diary. There are some serious draw back with using the Thor so if it's as good on the road as on paper the CB seat will be worth it. If it's not I'll tell you why I think so.

 

[Robert Holler]

I could also argue making the front boom fixed makes for a more eficient drive train and power transfer compared to an adjustable boom, which is the case for bachetta and Mystique.

I like standardization to make life easy for customers. Maybe Crusbike could make one thats has seat attachment like the ones Schlitter and Mystique, so we dont have different seat attachment standards.

This is definitely always our design goal, within realistic parameters where we can still offer basically "one bike to run them all."

I believe we have been successful in doing that with the adjustable (TM) front end - which is adjustable where is counts (fit arena) but not as "adjustable" in the area where you don't want it (power arena). For example, longer stays can be used for longer fits, but basically once that is done the powertrain zone of the bike is as rigid as we can make it (as opposed to an adjustable boom AND chain stay.)

On a performance bike, less adjustment is always better. The reality of "adjustments" is too many and too much range can upend the handling and feel too much. We have been able to stake a pretty darned good balance to date across the model range and fit options.

Adjustable booms are definitely a power loss (flex) and also add weight and MFG complexity. But in the world of small batches and high MFG costs - aiming for the widest fit balance with one frame is a real advantage. With a certain MOQ for every fame - having to make 2-3 frames for different heights of riders is a real losing proposition very quickly. It usually means that - of one model with 2-3 sizes - it will take 2-3 times longer (more?) to sell out one or more size... so that bike of "___ size" that is sold as a "2023" was actually manufactured in 2016 and is just lingering inventory that takes up space. This is a real problem in the past for some recumbent companies. That is not good for many reasons logistical and otherwise.

We have tried more than once to aim for a seat standard but thats really a challenge in an industry where so many have sprouted from the concept of being rogue outsiders with "anti-upright" designs. Take a look at the video of the "innovators section" (can't remember the exact name) from SPEZI. While fascinating, all I see are mostly rogue complicated designs that don't stand a chance of a manufacturing reality or market niche.

That said, the T-50 DOES have the seat rail pioneered by Performer - and that rail is also on the Mystique and the Freestyle... so that is as close to a standard (so far.) I will expect that to continue for us and hopefully other designs (and it works REALLY well.) The adoption of a mount standard for a seat though would also require the seat makers to all adopt a "standard" area for a bracket to attach to.

And then, the reality is that even in the upright world the term "standard" is rife with asterisks and variations galore.

Also just the size of companies makes this hard. Everyone recumbent is small - as opposed to the main giants of the upright industry. In the sea of the bike manufacturing/component design, the upright companies are basically variations of the Royal Caribbean Icon Of The Sea.

Recumbents are down there bobbing around in the swells as various vessels - from individuals with inflatable arm floaties to a few really sweet small size yachts. Not to say there aren't small players in the upright world as well, but small upright companies benefit greatly and directly from the innovations and spillover from the big guys.

And thats OK. At Cruzbike (a really sweet sweet yacht ) our goal is to keep innovating and keep building up to that larger cruise ship level.

 

[3bs]

lots of dittos to what has been said.
as for my set up, if you look at my bike you see all sorts of speed blasphmey. as such, i am not slow but i will never be the fastest. and at over 200 lbs, well. it would just take too many watts. but, the bike takes me a lot of places and i can ride it for many hours straight day after day. for longer rides, i skip bottles and put my fluid bladder in the old style box.

i used to have a stock CB seat with some foam wedging and i liked it perfectly fine. i just like this better.

first you see that my bottom bracket is much lower than most. yep. maybe a little more drag than if it is higher in a much flatter hip/shoulder pocket, but not a ton. it is slightly higher than my hip. and i am not a small human. As such, that means my steer tube is not flat. yep, more drag, but then i use a curved slider to bring my handlebars down, leaving the bars just below my shoulders. i am not a straight arm rider, i am an elbows in and down rider. my hands are always on the drops, and my elbows rest on my torso. so i am not a torpedo as larry or bob, or any of the great fast guys, but i am pretty compact for as upright as sit.

i have my thor seat attached right to the frame. no rubber, just velcro and front tabs are shaved some to fit in between the seat ribs. two screws that go thru the seat and thru the frame. the seat angles are progressive with a couple foam wedges. 20 degrees, then 30 then 52 at the top. the neck rest is flipped over so it is like spring loaded pillow that fits below my helmet. ventisit pad is zip strapped to seat.

yes it climbs a little better than the flatter position, but since i outweigh most of the speedies, i probably still climb slower with more watts. but, what it really does is allows me to feel slightly upright but not punch a big hole, and it keeps my stomach acid in my stomach not my throat (i have a bad valve above the stomach)

sure you can shim a thor seat and a stock seat. but, i have always favored the foam, as it let me customize the shape, and let the seat itself be as firm to the frame as possible.

i have other bikes with 25 degree or lower slants. my slr, my tica, my apache, my old m5m (befor ian took it) each one has to have at least a little padding to raise my shoulders and curve my esophagus to keep the acid down.

feel free to play around with these things. the bike, particulary the Pre carbon is much more amenable to adjusting than people think.