Titanium china copy of cruzbike

[IndianaDave]

Cruzers
My v20 steering FLOP is very annoying to me.

Engineering this frustration away, should be solvable.

My v seems to have a 73° headtube angle. The fork rake seems to be about 2".

My steering geometry knowledge tells me this isn't correct with 700c wheels which would produce flop even on a diamond frameset without MBB.

I would like to see 68° headtube, 2" fork rake with 700c wheels. My engineering skills tell me that would slow the steering, create less FLOP, along with much less twitchyness throughout one's ride.

I'm just learning how to ride my Cruzbike v20 and the above are concerns as I'm learning.

Lastly, I viewed the 2021 CB Retreat video and noticed nearly everyone filmed were "twitchy" at times. Can you say Cruzbikes "OVERSTEER" ?

My first thoughts with my CB School ...
Indiana Dave

 

[bladderhead]

When I first got the Silvio I was falling over into the inside of turns. I worked out how to compensate for this. As I started a turn I forced myself not to lean in. I felt as if I was about to fall outwards. This worked. Eventually I got used to it and steering issues disappeared. It never felt twitchy, at 40mph or 4mph. I think you are leaning in too far. The Silvio had no fork-flop and neither has the S40. I am trying to imagine what a Viscoset would feel like. I do not want to slow down my steering. I think mileage is what you need.

 

[IndianaDave]

When I first got the Silvio I was falling over into the inside of turns. I worked out how to compensate for this. As I started a turn I forced myself not to lean in. I felt as if I was about to fall outwards. This worked. Eventually I got used to it and steering issues disappeared. It never felt twitchy, at 40mph or 4mph. I think you are leaning in too far. The Silvio had no fork-flop and neither has the S40. I am trying to imagine what a Viscoset would feel like. I do not want to slow down my steering. I think mileage is what you need.

More mileage may be the answer ... but ...
Ive hung up my v20 for the season BECAUSE learning to counter just about everything I've enjoyed riding diamond frames for last 40 years is perhaps the most stressful 2 months of cycling ever ...
I'll go back at it next Spring ...

 

[ChaleJake]

More mileage may be the answer ... but ...
Ive hung up my v20 for the season BECAUSE learning to counter just about everything I've enjoyed riding diamond frames for last 40 years is perhaps the most stressful 2 months of cycling ever ...
I'll go back at it next Spring ...

It is really sad you did not make it to the retreat. The Cruzbike tribe would have had you up and riding. I have had the exact opposite experience as you. Everything I dislike about diamond frames is fixed by riding my Cruzbike! Maybe it is just not the bike for you? I wish you great joy, on a Cruzbike, this spring.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Sorry to hear about that Dave. My experience of riding it was opposite also. When the BB clamp broke on my V20 and I had to get back on my titanium DF bike after a 9-month layoff I noticed that a lot of the gains I made on the V2o also made me a lot faster on my DF bike. Sadly though, I knew it would only be a matter of time before my neck problems would creep back up if I had stayed on my DF bike for any considerable time. Now that my V20 is back up and running I can let my DF bike collect dust until it is needed again. I'm not sure if you have any kind of indoor trainer to use during Winter months, but if you do, then that would be a way to get more accustomed to it.

 

[Steve Heywood]

When I first got the Silvio I was falling over into the inside of turns. I worked out how to compensate for this. As I started a turn I forced myself not to lean in. I felt as if I was about to fall outwards. This worked. Eventually I got used to it and steering issues disappeared. It never felt twitchy, at 40mph or 4mph. I think you are leaning in too far. The Silvio had no fork-flop and neither has the S40. I am trying to imagine what a Viscoset would feel like. I do not want to slow down my steering. I think mileage is what you need.

I’ve got over 1000 miles now on the S40 and it feels much more relaxed… I was looking at the Viscoset again this morning and debating whether to get one.. I would say I’m totally comfortable on the bike without it (it’s a 2019 I think) but would like to master no hands… I’ll try the tips first before taking the plunge e.g. pushing outwards with my feet like ice skating and see if that helps

At first the CB felt very unnatural compared to the Bacchetta I was riding but it was only a matter of time before it started to feel totally natural e.g. the counter steering ability

 

[billyk]

would like to master no hands…

Lots of tips here with some searching.

Find a quiet road or large parking lot. Try first just holding a looser grip, then gradually loosen until your hands are more or less just resting on the bars.

Keep a steady pedaling rhythm. I found it easier to learn going up a slight incline to force me to keep positive pressure on the pedals throughout. That will help with control. It took much longer to learn to coast no-hands for that reason.

Once you get it, it will be totally natural, turns, bumps, hills, whatever. Far easier than an upright bike.

On the other hand, it's a lot less powerful without the arm pulling added to the force you can exert on the pedals. Fine for cruising along, eating your lunch, texting, photography ... ;-)

 

[vosadrian]

I think you need to get a few thousand kms on your bike setup in standard form (as it was engineered) before trying to reengineer it to suit your early issues. I am new to the V20 and I found some things were a concern at first (like wheel flop) and are totally a non-issue now I have learned the bike. I was convinced the stock headrest did not work for me, and others told me I need to adjust it which I tired at first to no avail. Then I fitted the adjustable headrest and adjusted it as I got to know the bike, and recently I tried the stock headrest.... and what do you know.... I adjusted the adjustable to be the same position as the stock headrest and the stock item feels great.. I just mention this, because the bike is well engineered to suit an experienced rider, and it may not make sense to a beginner, but given the time to become experienced, the pieces fall into place.

The wheel flop and a few other things are still apparent even with some experience (but at a much reduced level) but only in very limitted circumstances that are not normal riding and you learn to be prepared for those circumstances and adjust accordingly.... like manouvering through some narrow paths with tight corners or something that most rarely do.

 

[jond]

I think you need to get a few thousand kms on your bike setup in standard form (as it was engineered) before trying to reengineer it to suit your early issues. I am new to the V20 and I found some things were a concern at first (like wheel flop) and are totally a non-issue now I have learned the bike. I was convinced the stock headrest did not work for me, and others told me I need to adjust it which I tired at first to no avail. Then I fitted the adjustable headrest and adjusted it as I got to know the bike, and recently I tried the stock headrest.... and what do you know.... I adjusted the adjustable to be the same position as the stock headrest and the stock item feels great.. I just mention this, because the bike is well engineered to suit an experienced rider, and it may not make sense to a beginner, but given the time to become experienced, the pieces fall into place.

The wheel flop and a few other things are still apparent even with some experience (but at a much reduced level) but only in very limitted circumstances that are not normal riding and you learn to be prepared for those circumstances and adjust accordingly.... like manouvering through some narrow paths with tight corners or something that most rarely do.

now all you need to do is shove the inflatable bladder in the headrest and you’ll be saying yep told me that too.

Indiana Dave.

at walking pace I’m twitchy. Heck my legs are up above my bum.

small wheels hmm. Might possibly add to the teething issues.

Go to the car park do figure eights fast slow and tight. Do not stop till mastered. Put on 700 c wheels.

revisit the training vids advice from ratz etc.

Put your head to the outside on slow turns. Smile enjoy.

 

[Rob Lloyd]

C

...

My v seems to have a 73° headtube angle. The fork rake seems to be about 2".

My steering geometry knowledge tells me this isn't correct with 700c wheels which would produce flop even on a diamond frameset without MBB.

I would like to see 68° headtube, 2" fork rake with 700c wheels. My engineering skills tell me that would slow the steering, create less FLOP, along with much less twitchyness throughout one's ride.

...

I think it's the other way 'round, actually. 73 deg HTA will have less flop than 68 deg HTA given the same fork rake.

My homebuilt is 70deg HTA with a 2.1" rake, and my flop is 0.24in or 6mm. I still think that's too much.

If I could increase the HTA to 73deg using the same fork, the flop would drop to 0.11in or 2.8mm. At 68deg HTA, flop would be 0.33in or 8.4mm.

Flop is really related more to trail. Low trail = low flop. For a given HTA, more rake = less trail and less flop. But, low trail also means less stability at higher speeds.

For reference, my LWB homebuilt has very low trail (1.25") with a high rake fork and only 0.06in flop (1.5mm). But, it does get a bit twitchy coasting at speeds over 25mph. Pedaling seems to smooth it out.

 

[IndianaDave]

Cruzers
I really like your experienced posts. Thank you for teaching an ole dog new tricks.

Don't we love the Forum ?

CB Apprentice ID

ps: Tweeking and re-tuning my V with a lot of Forum poster's suggestions. Looking forward to my Cruzbike University Sophomore year.

 

[Frito Bandito]

A titanium V20 with a CF front triangle, or maybe even a Ti6Al front triangle with thicker tubes for rigidity would definitely make my eyes light up

 

[Bentsoup]

A titanium V20 with a CF front triangle, or maybe even a Ti6Al front triangle with thicker tubes for rigidity would definitely make my eyes light up

Has cruzbike ever considered offering a titanium cruzbike? I love the look of titanium.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Has cruzbike ever considered offering a titanium cruzbike? I love the look of titanium.

I am not sure if they have. It might be prohibitively expensive, and as 1 person who had a Ti copy of a Cruzbike made wrote, there might be too much flex in the front triangle. A Ti frame and CF front triangle might be perfect though. I wouldn't even mind if it was made with a simple round tube instead of shaped like the current frames are.