Without a doubt, yes. Seeing your front wheel is crucial to avoid touching wheels and wrecking when drafting closely (say half a wheel). If you can‘t see it, i would say you shouldn‘t be less than half a bike length away. So leisurely paceline ok, at least one bike length away.
I always used to tinker with my bikes, adjust the calipers, index gears, lube head-joints, etc. Then bikes became so sophisticated, you just couldn't mess with them. There’s no indexing a wireless electronic derailleur…Same with cars….until I got an EV, lol...Fascinating that recumbents are still eminently messaroundable.
Actually, I’ve been wondering, two important questions: 1) Is it a little “too” comfortable? Part of the beauty of the bike is pain. Good ol fashioned suffering through hard, hot, head-wind miles when you have no other choice...or are you just too damn comfy and fast on a V20 that you cant get to a good level of hurt? In other words, what would you say is the differential or perceived exertion (per mile or unit of time) of a V20 vs a regular roadbike? Sorry if that sounds weird. And 2) are regular cycling bibs comfy (or even appropriate) to wear on the V20? Bibs are engineered for a whole different type of cycling…then again, isn’t the perineum pretty much sticking out in the air while on a V20? Maybe it doesn’t matter? If it does, I would assume lycra without padding is more comfortable?
What’s a training plan on a recumbent look like…more miles or more speed than would otherwise apply in the same plan for a roadbike?
Ok, this kind of answers a little bit of my first question above…if you’re cramping on a bike, usually just means you’re not eating or drinking…lack of sodium or glucose, those muscles seize. Is it that you forget to eat or drink, or is it that this type bike induces cramping more regularly and it’s less avoidable than a roadbike? I can certainly imagine the activity being less strenuous, but the question is whether by simply speeding up, that gap is bridged, and you get just as fatigued.
Well, if you like tinkering then you will have plenty to do on the V20 to customize it. Ventisit thickness, layers of adhesive backed foam padding if you want more comfort or to change your head height, standard or adjustable headrest bars, bottle locations (behind the head, under the boom, under the seat) for speed and/or accessibility, hydration options (bottle or bladder), bottle cage types, mirrors, lights and mounts on the bike or helmet, camera mounts on the bike or helmet, head rest type (stock or customized) helmet and visor, bar type, shifter type, tailbox type.... there is plenty to keep you busy.
We used to have a recumbent-and-kayak shop* in my area. The owner tried an early Cruzbike model at an expo years ago, didn't like it because he didn't get the hang of it right away, and has disparaged Cruzbikes as "dangerous" ever since.
I don't tend to do much drafting on my V. I can do it, no problem, but here's why I don't tend to: 1. on flat routes on fairly calm days (winds under 10mph), my I-can-do-this-all-day cruising speed is about 23-24mph. At that speed, I am pretty much a one-person paceline. I can ride out in the lane by myself while the rest knock themselves out with their rotation. It's comically unfair. And when the winds are up, the advantage (or disadvantage) widens even more; I can punch through a headwind more efficiently--hence, faster--than DF riders, paceline or not. 2. DF riders don't get much draft off of a V, so who would want to be that rider cued up to take my wheel? I wouldn't! So, to avoid putting DF riders in that position, I stay out of their pacelines (again, I can hang out to the left, keeping an eye on my mirrors, of course, while they do their thing). If it's a slower paceline, I can ride off the front for a bit, or sightsee off the back for a time, and then reconnect with the group when I want. If it's a spirited paceline, holding, say, 28-30mph, I'll hang out off the back for just enough draft to be able to keep up, but with a big enough gap that it's clear that I'm not in the rotation (because, again, who would want to be the one on my wheel?).
You can put as much hurt on yourself on a V as you like, as far as training and exertion go. Here's what you will miss out on: "Man, my [ass, neck, hands, shoulders, back] really hurt. How many more miles do I have until I'm home?" Instead, once you're warmed up and the endorphins start kicking in, you'll be looking for ways to add miles to your rides because nothing hurts, your legs are humming, and the weather is excellent. For training rides, 50 miles is the new 30. Double centuries are the new single centuries (because at 100 miles in, you aren't saying "get me off this damn thing"). The workout is still happening, but your brain and body will be happier about it. When I do gravel rides on my lightweight hardtail, I have about 60 miles before various pains and their attendant thoughts start to make me wish I was already sitting down for the BBQ and beer waiting at the end.
Thank you so much for the detailed info! very helpful! i’m looking forward to tinkering with the bike, particularly in ways that allow you to carry things such as food! If I’m going to be racking up a lot more miles, it makes sense to be able to carry a bit more gear. I think I’m gonna take it easy with the clothes, as I have maybe 20 cycling bibs and close to 100 jerseys. I’ll try modifying a couple and see how it goes.Well, if you like tinkering then you will have plenty to do on the V20 to customize it. Ventisit thickness, layers of adhesive backed foam padding if you want more comfort or to change your head height, standard or adjustable headrest bars, bottle locations (behind the head, under the boom, under the seat) for speed and/or accessibility, hydration options (bottle or bladder), bottle cage types, mirrors, lights and mounts on the bike or helmet, camera mounts on the bike or helmet, head rest type (stock or customized) helmet and visor, bar type, shifter type, tailbox type.... there is plenty to keep you busy.
Too comfortable is an issue. I got "Aero is King" stuck in my head lately and while making my V20 as comfortable and aero as possible, I think it is safe to say that my training has stalled a bit. Last September I got up to 221 watts average power for 3H:42M which would now put me over 40kph on a flat course with no wind and no drafting, but my CdA must have been so high then that my speed really suffered (34.6kph). Now my CdA is better, but in this endeavor my power has suffered. Not having someone to chase or to chase me during rides has brought out a bit of laziness. So to answer your question, going 38-40kph on my own on 180 watts has been enough to keep me going out and not really complaining much about the speed, so yes. I haven't really been diligent to make myself suffer, and it shows with not many Strava PRs, Top Tens or KOMs lately on my rides.
It is possible to put yourself in the effort hurt locker on a V20c, you just have to stay diligent on it. It may take a bit of time to get your "bent" legs because your torso angle is more than on a DF bike, so you don't get a full range of motion, and if you go with shorter cranks than you have on your roadbike like many do then that might also affect your power output. Aerodynamics is going to trump that but don't let it affect you.
For clothes, some riders go with dedicated cycling clothes, and I even got a link yesterday from a recumbent rider here in Japan. I usually ride with long sleeved rashguard surfing shirts and inexpensive leggings doused in water in Summer. They are shiny and tight so they probably don't hurt me much aerodynamically. Cycling jerseys and shirts often have pockets in the wrong places for bent riders. Here is the link, but I have never ordered anything from it.
I think DF cycling training plans will work with recumbents. You'll probably find that your mileage is going to increase over your DF because the V20c is simply so efficient.
Thanks for the fueling stuff. I always have plenty of hydration for my rides but fueling for them has been my nemesis. It's funny because I always view food simply as fuel, but I really suck at fueling for my rides. I don't know if bents cause more cramping, but I suck at it probably because on my DF my hard rides were almost never over 100km so whatever I had in my gut would get me through it. Since 100km is pretty easy on a V20 I get into trouble at about 120-150km.
Anyone else please feel free to jump in and share your wisdom and expertise. I just try to keep my stuff simple. Food? Yes, need some of that. Training? Yes, push hard until you can't anymore. Slow down for a bit and then repeat after recovery
So I met the guy today! he is an older gentleman, who clearly loves recumbents, and has a garage full of Bacchettas and other no-name brand recumbents. A cantankerous old fogey, who clearly has a heart of gold, and was very generous with his time. I have a feeling he is exactly like that shop owner in your kayak shop. But as cantankerous as he was he guided me on how to ride, and I got to ride my first recumbent today! , It was a Bacchetta that had a big handlebar that i couldnt reach with more than the tips of my fingers while pedaling… but apparently I surprised some folks, because I started pedaling and riding around within 5 minutes of mounting it… did not find it particularly difficult It was fun! A very weird experience, and certainly felt awkward and not very stable, but I was able to do laps around the neighborhood had a good clip and steer around obstacles without any problems. What the guru said is that Cruzbikes are heavy, can’t climb, and are very unsafe. unfortunately, he would not elaborate, and insisted that I listen to him and never buy a Cruisebike because i would fall and they're terrible….He very much wants to build me a Bacchetta from garage parts… so, I took him to lunch and told him that when I decide to get into an activity, I prefer to not start with entry-level materials, if possible, because I hate having to spend more money and upgrading shortly after starting… I think he knows that I am very likely to show up at our next meeting with a 2022 V20c, and I plan on rubbing it in his face while we drink beer. what I would really like it to be able to test ride one… unfortunately, they don’t seem to be any cruisebike shops in my area…I may have to drive a few hours out, which Im ok to do.
Fascinating. This is sounding better and better every day….If I can get a solid workout while also going faster and killing more miles, AND YOU GET TO CARRY STUFF….what else could one want….
23-24 cruising speed is just bananas…I’ve been thinking that its not just less aerodynamic drag that helps, but being lower to the ground, there is probably less wind to contend with…I can’t friggin wait
If you can follow along with Robert, you’ll be fine.
Nice! this should make it easy…Looks like the hydraulic system is already pre-loaded and pressurized…that was my big concern…i hate bleeding hydraulic brakes, much less initially loading them. What’s not included for assembly? torque wrench with a T47 bit and some M1-10 hexes, I would assume? Maybe carbon grease…? why did you need longer hydraulic brake hoses? Did you have a special setup?
I've gone about 55mph downhill on my V20 = The V20C is tighter and more stable - I is great fun
excellent. good to know. I’ve written my LBS for a quote for building me a V20c with Sram Force etap parts and zipp 404s. I think I’m done with the “due diligence,” You guys are amazing. just want to get out there now.
That's great you took to the system so quickly. I am not sure how much seat angle that Bachetta had, but as you recline it seems to take a bit more time to get your balance. There are quite a few slow speed maneuvering drills that will get your head wired for balance on the bike in short order that it would be good to follow so you don't crash or look like a newborn giraffe on ice.
wow, haha I really enjoy your writing. very descriptive and colorful! I definitely felt a bit like a newborn giraffe, but i think ill get the hang of it….So happy to hear that climbing is not an issue…I livein a very flat area but enjoy going on trips where there ks moderate elevation… You’re “casualguy 939” on Youtube, right? Ive watched all your videos with great interest. I also enjoy very much the beauty of your homeland, Japan…This video I thought was particularly great:
