Tour de Blast - Mt. St. Helens, training suggestions needed

[cpml123]

Hi all,
This past Sat I rode in the Tour de Blast on Mt St. Helens. The whole trip is from the town Toutle at the buttom all the way up to Johnston Observatory. The weather started gloomy at 50 deg, overcast and slightly misty when we started riding at 7am. By 10 am, all the fog burned off, and the weather was gorgeous at around 70 deg.

I made it all the way to the second stop calld Elk View. There I meet the only other recumbent rider with a Bacchetta bike. We both agreed that riding uphill for a few thousand feet is hard on a recumbent. There were lots of food, snacks, and great views.

I decided to try to keep going to the end to Johnston Observatory. After I cruised down about 1000 ft and started climbing, I started getting pre cramps. I could either go up another 1500 ft to the end plus another 1000 ft to go back down or just turn around with 1000 ft climb. I didn't feel like I trained enough and didn't want to walk later, so I turned around, made my final climb and cruised down the mountain. In the end, I did 3/4 of the complete route with 65 mi and 4800 ft climb vs 84 mi and 7000 ft climb. It was perfect weather and a mostly safe ride.

I have a few questions for folks...

1. I guess with me only riding about 1500 mi per year, is this about as good as I can get? Or there is something else I could do to make it to the complete route?

2. I guess I am still not totally steady going slowly uphill. My front wheel went into the soft area next to the narrow shoulder during one of the random front end wobbles. I was on the ground next. Good thing nothing major got damaged. This is after 3 years of riding. I am wondering if I should install the Viscoset or just keep training? I did find that if I focus on a point far away, it helps to stabilize. I guess it's like skiing... look at the place you want to go and not the trees or embankment.

 

[LarryOz]

I did find that if I focus on a point far away, it helps to stabilize. I guess it's like skiing... look at the place you want to go and not the trees or embankment.

Thanks for sharing -
That is the trick - plus just doing it more!

 

[Mathew Fy]

1. I guess with me only riding about 1500 mi per year, is this about as good as I can get? Or there is something else I could do to make it to the complete route?

Training. More of it and better quality. This worked for me. BC (Before Cruzbike) I maybe rode 1000 miles/year, but now I enjoy it more, so spend more time on the bike. Trainer Road during inclement weather times have helped me out, and now with Larry’s challenges I’m logging more miles. Now my biking fitness is much better than ever.

Being a stronger rider with lots of practice and having gearing that allows you to pedal at an ideal cadence should help with your stability issues. I doubt the Viscoset would help with this issue.

Also, thanks for sharing, the photos look spectacular.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Nice pics and nice going on the ride. Yes, when riding or even driving, we tend to steer in the direction we are looking even though we are conscious that it might not be the direction we want to go. It is called "target fixation" and is the cause for us running into stuff despite there being a lot room. Your legs might be okay to complete the climb, but a bit more training might be needed. Another thing that helps to prevent or reduce the cramps you gotta stay hydrated and make sure you have enough electrolytes. Potassium and Sodium rich foods prior to and during the ride will help as well.

 

[jond]

Regarding mileage.....Someone once said to me. What you can do week after week month after month over two years you can do weekly totals in a day. Unless you’re larry riding thousands each week. Lol. Cutoff for normal is 400 klm.

essentially that turned out to be true. Consensus work harder do more and watch the road.

Ha ha easier said than done if you’re no mojo lazy like me .

or time poor and are easily distracted by that sheilah in front.

the only thing is to safely enjoy how ever much cycling you do and have fun.

I reckon you did great smart riding.

 

[LarryOz]

I doubt the Viscoset would help with this issue.

I agree - while the Visoset is nice (especially for newbie's), I don't think you would notice a benefit.

 

[cpml123]

Thank you everyone! Great to confirm that I don't need to get a Viscoset. Just need to keep riding!

Michael

 

[chicorider]

I echo what others have said. For training rides I have two concerns: quantity and quality. I am about to go on a ride, planning a 50-ish mile route with two climbs totaling about 3000 feet. That will take care of the quantity part. The rest will be me pushing a pace that is taxing, but not to the point of injury or psychological trauma (the ride must be "fun," "enjoyable," or "satisfying," or I won't look forward to the next one). I'll do this three or four times a week, to the tune of about 150 miles, or 5,000 to 6,000 miles per year. That is not a lot of miles compared to some, but I make sure that those miles are high enough quality that I can tackle pretty much any longer event I put in my path.

The Cruzbike is really good at climbing. I'm not quite as fast as I used to be on a diamond frame, but I can climb all day long still at a good clip. But yes, the secret to getting better at climbing is to climb more.

Having an event like the Mt. St. Helens ride to look forward to is also a great motivator. From April through October, I try to sign up for at least one of those per month.

 

[ed72]

Taking on 84 miles with 7,000 feet of climbing on 1,500 miles per year of riding takes guts. You almost made it.

Looking at the profile, it has a lot of climbing in the 10-15% range with short kickers over 20%. Were you able to handle the 10-15% sections? Do you know at what speed and gradient that you become wobbly? If so, you have four options. Increase your power with more training, reduce your weight, learn to rider slower, or walk. I know where my limits are and walk the short steep kickers. I know most are better climbers than me and I just accept it. Learning to ride slower can be done in a parking lot and also if you have steep hills on your normal rides, this is a skill and it can be improved to some limits depending upon the bike design, your positioning on the bike, and response speed of the human controller.

 

[cpml123]

Taking on 84 miles with 7,000 feet of climbing on 1,500 miles per year of riding takes guts. You almost made it..

@ed72 Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. I wasn't sure what sort of output/result is expected out of 1500 mi of riding.

Regarding the grade... the climb profile picture made it looking like it's really steep climb all the way up. It's actually mostly between 5-9% grade all the way up the mountain. There is no way I can climb 15 or 20% with S40. The wheel starts slipping around 12-13%. I become wobbly below 5 mph. I definitely can use more training to increase power. I can use more training to ride slower as well. More figure 8 loops.

Thank you!

Michael

 

[ed72]

@ed72 Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. I wasn't sure what sort of output/result is expected out of 1500 mi of riding.

Regarding the grade... the climb profile picture made it looking like it's really steep climb all the way up. It's actually mostly between 5-9% grade all the way up the mountain. There is no way I can climb 15 or 20% with S40. The wheel starts slipping around 12-13%. I become wobbly below 5 mph. I definitely can use more training to increase power. I can use more training to ride slower as well. More figure 8 loops.

Thank you!

Michael

You're welcome!

I would try to work on being able to ride at 4 mph. Riding at 5 mph takes 25% more power than riding at 4 mph on the same hill. On long rides, you have to be careful not to ride really hard for a long time because of fatigue. It is pretty hard to improve your power to weight ratio by 25% but being able to balance and ride a little slower has the same effect. In my case, my power is down 30 watts and my weight is up 30 pounds, I keep telling myself they balance out......minus 30 plus 30 = zero. LOL.

 

[ed72]

BTW.....my rule of thumb is the longest training ride should be 60-70% of the miles and elevation of the "big ride" to have confidence in the outcome. So, if your longest training ride was 50-55 miles and 4200-5000 feet of climbing, you would/should have been able to do that ride. That rule of thumb is more for riders new to distance. I had not ridden more than 35 miles for over a year, but I had done a lot of 12 hour backpacking and had many years of long distance, I recently did a 300km ride and I was a bit nervous but my fitness from backpacking was good enough......just saying that because my simple rule of thumb might bristle some more experienced but for riders new to distance, building up slowly is very important. This is how you can do rides like that and feel good afterwards and not be sore. GL

 

[jond]

Great advice Ed. I think it applies to all experienced or not. If you’re not regularly bi monthly at least riding distance then it’s sensible to build back up on plan.

after covid a lot of us lost opportunities to ride at all.

nothing worse than upchuck at a checkpoint. Or injury.

 

[ed72]

Figure 8 loops probably help. Here is what I did to get myself better climbing slow, I don't know if this applies but here goes.

I have a school parking lot with a small slope to it, maybe 1%. I ride up the small slope as slowly as I can and focus on relaxing and keeping my eyes in the distant part of the pavement. I do a wide U turn where the Parents pick their kids up (obviously, I am riding when school is closed). Then, on the way "down" I do some figure 8's and then back "up" with the same focus on going very slow.

I also rode slow on my grass. You have to pedal hard on my grass....cue the lawnmower. Part of it is balance but part of it is balance when putting a lot of power out on bumpy surfaces.

It is difficult to say how slow I can climb now because the wheel speed measuring devices do not measure well below 4 mph (nyquist sampling theorem related for ). GPS speed on a steady climb with clear skies might be better but I have never found GPS to be precise although over a long distance, it all averages out.

 

[cpml123]

Figure 8 loops probably help. Here is what I did to get myself better climbing slow, I don't know if this applies but here goes.

I have a school parking lot with a small slope to it, maybe 1%. I ride up the small slope as slowly as I can and focus on relaxing and keeping my eyes in the distant part of the pavement. I do a wide U turn where the Parents pick their kids up (obviously, I am riding when school is closed). Then, on the way "down" I do some figure 8's and then back "up" with the same focus on going very slow.

I also rode slow on my grass. You have to pedal hard on my grass....cue the lawnmower. Part of it is balance but part of it is balance when putting a lot of power out on bumpy surfaces.

It is difficult to say how slow I can climb now because the wheel speed measuring devices do not measure well below 4 mph (nyquist sampling theorem related for ). GPS speed on a steady climb with clear skies might be better but I have never found GPS to be precise although over a long distance, it all averages out.

These are great exercises for slow speed training. I hadn't spent any time practicing slow speed riding other than the initial loop 8's and now when I had to go uphill.

 

[Randyc3]

Hi all,
This past Sat I rode in the Tour de Blast on Mt St. Helens. The whole trip is from the town Toutle at the buttom all the way up to Johnston Observatory. The weather started gloomy at 50 deg, overcast and slightly misty when we started riding at 7am. By 10 am, all the fog burned off, and the weather was gorgeous at around 70 deg.

I made it all the way to the second stop calld Elk View. There I meet the only other recumbent rider with a Bacchetta bike. We both agreed that riding uphill for a few thousand feet is hard on a recumbent. There were lots of food, snacks, and great views.

I decided to try to keep going to the end to Johnston Observatory. After I cruised down about 1000 ft and started climbing, I started getting pre cramps. I could either go up another 1500 ft to the end plus another 1000 ft to go back down or just turn around with 1000 ft climb. I didn't feel like I trained enough and didn't want to walk later, so I turned around, made my final climb and cruised down the mountain. In the end, I did 3/4 of the complete route with 65 mi and 4800 ft climb vs 84 mi and 7000 ft climb. It was perfect weather and a mostly safe ride.

I have a few questions for folks...

1. I guess with me only riding about 1500 mi per year, is this about as good as I can get? Or there is something else I could do to make it to the complete route?

2. I guess I am still not totally steady going slowly uphill. My front wheel went into the soft area next to the narrow shoulder during one of the random front end wobbles. I was on the ground next. Good thing nothing major got damaged. This is after 3 years of riding. I am wondering if I should install the Viscoset or just keep training? I did find that if I focus on a point far away, it helps to stabilize. I guess it's like skiing... look at the place you want to go and not the trees or embankment.

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Hi, just started riding an S40. Would be interested in this ride for 2022 or if you want to meet for a ride sometime just let me know. Cheers and safe riding.

 

[xtalbike]

My experience switching from DF to the S40 and V20 is that pedaling technique becomes much more important for climbing on the Cruzbikes. Keeping a “round” pedal stroke where the force is as evenly distributed as possible through each cycle helps prevent both front wheel slip on steep stuff and wobble at low speeds. It’s also less tiring. Keeping the cadence high enough helps to keep the pedal stroke round which also means you need some nice low gears for big vertical days. 1:1 at a minimum and easier if possible.

 

[cpml123]

Hi, just started riding an S40. Would be interested in this ride for 2022 or if you want to meet for a ride sometime just let me know. Cheers and safe riding.

I will message you.