Training for ultra endurance (24h races etc.)

[snilard]

Hi everyone.

My main bike goal is to "compete" in long brevets, especially London-Edinburg-London and Paris-Brest-Paris. I am looking for information how to train for this types of events.
I am reading Joe Friel's Training bible. It is excellent and detailed. Nice step by step tutorial how to make your training plan. But it is written for regular road cyclists not for ultra endurance cyclists.
I know that there are also some folks on the forum who race in long races like 24 h or RAAM. So can you recommend me some book, web page, web service etc. suitable for ultra endurance training?

I use HR monitor for my "training" now. I haven't got a power meter. I would like to ask if it is as helpful for ultra endurance cyclist as for regular "short distance" cyclists?

 

[ratz]

Start here.

A reasonable place to start would be here: https://www.ultracycling.com/sections/articles/

For Ultra cycling a power meter would be to:

1) Use it with at coach to provide ride data that would be used to guide your training. It allows the coach to evaluate what you really did and plan the next session

2) Use it during training to figure out your max sustainable power over various time frames. That would be the power level you can ride non-stop without loosing power; there are routines to follow to figure it out. That will tell you how hard you can go on a long ride assuming you are at a fitness level on par with your training. Then when you are wasted and can't think from all the miles you can just glance at your power meter a go; "I know I can do this many sustained watts, so push the dam pedals" or aka keep yourself from fooling yourself.

3) Learn what watt level is good for what need. Example to ride "thru" cramps. Sounds silly but it's going to happen on long ride. I cramp every single time between 80-85 miles then it's over; I know if I ride at 115 watts I can ride through the cramps and they go away.

There are a host of other things you can do with it; but that gives you 3 very different ideas to start with.

 

[trplay]

Different disciplines, different training

A couple of thoughts. Your main goal is stated as "Compete in long Brevets" although your title suggests an interest in ultra racing. It makes sense. There are lots of cross dressers between the two sports. But Understand they are very different and training for one is not necessarily the best way to train for the other. Ultra racing is gadget heavy with max performance the goal. Randonneuring is not. In fact a super performance will penalize you by making you wait for the control to open. Training for brevets is much easier and is best done simply by getting a in lot of base miles. Learning how to eat and figuring out what regular foods work for you is perhaps the biggest obstacle. Keep in mind racing is pushing to fatigue. Brevets are at a brisk touring pace or slower. Power meters, support crews, dope, fancy concoctions aren't needed. The process for qualifying for the PBP is in itself good enough to get you ready for the 1200km ride. Your performance during the 400k and 600k rides assuming you ride them straight through will be the wake up call. If you struggle and barely make the times you need more work if not you are ready. The beauty is you will know what the area is that needs work and have plenty of time to fix it. I could go on and on but in a nutshell Randonneuring is basically a very hospitable alternative to out right ultra-racing.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Ultra Distance Riding

Snilard,

Most of us who do long distance riding believe the best way to train for long distance riding is to ride long distances. I know this may sound axiomtic but the truth is that anyone who can ride forty or so miles can ride a hundred or two hundred miles, it becomes a question of mental endurance as much as physical.

At Bessies Creek 24 this this year, the winner of the 24 hour race rode over 400 miles in that time, and apart from riding a $12,000 bike, his main strategy for undertaking this and the RAAM he qualified for, is to ride and ride and ride.

As you know, the PBP next year is a clock timed race where you have to complete the 1200K in 90 hours or less and to do that it takes fortitude and being prepared to suffer and somehow find the determination to keep going, even if it rains or sleets or blows or all of these during the 4 days of torture.

Presumably you plan to ride an ACP series next year - you have to in order to qualify for the PBP, so doing that will help prepare you to ride over 750 miles in less than 4 days like no other program can.

So ride, no matter the weather, no matter how sore you are, no matter how much you want to throw the *#@^* bike into the ditch and call mummy to pick you up. At the end, you will feel proud of yourself, believe me, I've done it. Getting on a bike at 7 one morning, riding 260 miles and getting off the bike at 4 the next morning will set you apart, and you will feel fantastic. Good Luck.

Ken.

 

[snilard]

Thank you booth for reply.
Mr

Thank you booth for reply.

Mr ratz: I have already found this pages but not studied it yet. So I will read presented articles.

trplay: You are particularly right. I have experience with brevets as same as 24 hour races. On brevet you are maximizing probability to finish in limit while in race on circuit you are pushing yourself to limits. But I am also pushing myself to limits on brevets. On last year's 400 km ride I was not nicely close to limit. I cannot lower my pauses on ride. My bike is not as fast as I would like to, but I cannot afford Vendetta now. I have friend with similar bike who can compete with roadies what I cannot. I am slow in uphills. So I think that weak part of chain is engine - me. I need better training. And I think that simply riding al lot of base miles (what I did) is not enough to make me better brevet rider.
I know that I simply don't need anaerobic endurance and huge maximal power but I need to be able ride higher power in low intensities than now. I think that systematic ultra endurance training will be benefit for me in brevets as same as in 24 hour races. So I am looking for something as detailed as Training bible.

 

[snilard]

Ken: Thanks for reply.
I am

Ken: Thanks for reply.

I am not sure if I will participate on 2015 PBP. We were planning with my friends to make our brevet rides official qualifier for PBP, but it is not so easy. Yes, we can still pass qualifiers in Germany (we are from Czech Republic), but it is much more complicated and expensive.

Riding, riding, riding. Ok. Do you use some sort of measurement and limiting? Like limit on HR or power, or just ride by feel? I use 75% limit (from max) on HR and it +- works. I can +- ride with this limit all day long. But It slows me on the hills. To maintain this low HR I have to use lowest gear on the most hills (22/32 with 26" wheel). I cannot ride on the limit on the flat routes, the limit is to high to sustain this intensity without any pauses for hours, I need to ride at little lower intensity. But on routes with some hills It is Ok because I can rest on downhills.
So my idea is to use lower limits on flats and downhills and use higher limits on uphills. My actual watches cannot do this, but I can imagine to program this for Suunto Ambit 3 or Garmin Forerunner 920XT. My idea is that power meter would be better than HR because power is not affected by cafe, lunch etc.

 

[Kenneth Jessett]

Randonnering

Snilard,

Since there are no brevets organised in Czech Republic, you may want to consider forming a club to organise your own brevets. Contact: jg.faburel@audax-club-parisien.com.

As far as riding, I am of the 'Wheeling my bike out of the cave after making sure the T Rexes are off eating something else before I venture out' kind of rider. I do have a bike computer but only to see my speed. I used to have a RPM read-out as well, but gave that up. I just ride. I don't have a heart rate monitor - well, I do have one but it hasn't seen the light of any day for a few years now, I don't follow VO2 max and don't care much for gadgets anyway - they generally only satisfy the bank balance of the people who sell them.

To compete in Randonneuring: Follow these simple rules: Eat lightly and often and only eat food you can digest readily, drink before you are thirsty, rest when you need to, but keep riding .

Ultra races are something else and usually costs a great deal more money in bikes, entry fees and scientific nutrition regimens. Looking at the ultra calendar, I don't see any of these races in Czech republic but maybe there are some and you can try them and get your feet wet. From my unscientific review, it seems to me that there is not a lot of cross-over between ultra distance racers and ultra distance riders, the one rides to win and the other rides for sport. For ultra distance racers the art of riding randonneurs is too plebeian preferring to go fast and in a racing atmosphere.

Clearly there is room for all types of riders - those who want to test themselves against others in a racing format and those who want to ride long distances against a clock with perhaps with others in a camaraderie experience.

Let us know how you get on. As you know, the PBP is a four yearly event, as is the LEL but in off years. In the US, there are a number of domestic 1200's with two next year, one in Florida in May and one in the Carolinas in October, usually in non-PBP years there are at least 5 - 6 of them. Doing 1200's other than the PBP - which is big (5,000 + riders) and stressful and expensive for those of us living on the wrong side of the pond - will be a better introduction into the ultimate distance.

Have fun.

Ken.

 

[snilard]

My friends are

My friends are organizing brevets but not officially as PBP qualifier. They decided not to make it official only for us three or four. So they planned to organize semi-private 1200 km brevet and to start riding official brevets by LEL 2017. I understand them but I am not happy about this decision.
There are some ultra races in Czech Republic. I was competing two times on local 24 hours race. It is organized by local hobbyist for hobbyists just for fun. It has really great atmosphere.

While I am primary brevet rider I am still very competitive. But my bike is not suitable for any road races and I simply want ride recumbent and don't want buy and ride upright. I would like to be stronger rider and I like all this scientific methods for training and I like electronic gadgets. I think that my actual unsystematic training cannot make me better rider. Maybe I just need to write down simple training plan and comply with it.