Tubeless Tire Blow-out

[3WHELZ]

I experienced my first punctured tubeless tire. I was coming down grade into an intersection at about 30 mph when I hit some debris from a previous vehicle accident. At first, I was not quite sure what occurred, since the experience is much different than that of tube blow-out. By comparison, it was a very controlled deflation of the front tire, despite the size of the gash. The sealant spewed out as a mist almost looking like smoke. I came to a stop about 75 yards from where the impact took place. The sealant did its best, but it could not keep the wound healed above 10 psi. I had to call my wife for a sag-wagon assist, since I was 10 miles out. One lesson learned was fit test the bike in your vehicle should the need arise. I had not previously attempted to place the bike in the back of our SUV. My Silvio 1.0 fit fine, but I found that the tailbox on the S40 added length to the overall bike. After some trial an error, we found taking off the back wheel and bringing the tailbox up between the front seat was the best fit. I have always transport S40 on a hitch rack, which is too heavy for my wife to manage.

A few questions: does anyone have advice on how to field dress a tire wound while leaving the tire on the rim? I have seen that several manufactures offer tire plug kits, but they seem to be suited for lower pressure MTB tires. Has anyone attempted this on road tire? I have also heard of using cyanoacrylate (super glue) as temporary external patch. Of course, installing a tube is alternative, but I would prefer it be the last resort.

After returning home, I pull the tire off of the rim. There was a surprising amount of sealant still in the tire. The gash was about 7mm, which I patch on the inside some heavy rubber tape and Bob Smith Industries Super Glue, an industrial level cyanoacrylate. The patch seems to be holding fine. I placed it opposite of the stem to counter any added weight the tire.

 

[benphyr]

That's quite the hole! Glad to hear you were ok - no injuries beyond to the tire. Where was it on the tire? One thing I've always wondered is what is the mess effect of the sealant spraying out. Does it leave stickiness or any residue on the outside of the tire that you had to beware of when placing your bike in the car?

 

[3WHELZ]

The puncture occurred on the crown of the tire. There was very little residue on the bike. By the time my wife arrived, the sealant had coagulated, so no mess. Since the sealant is mostly latex, it is an easy clean. I should have mentioned that the punctured tire was a Hutchinson Sector 28 tubeless tire.

 

[DavidCH]

I don't think any tubeless tire would work with a 7mm hole. Yep I like controlled stops. I go tubeless but I still carry an innertube... just in case and a dollar bill. You never know when you need Uncle Sam to seal the ordeal. I stash a small hand pump as well in case I run out of CO2.

 

[ratz]

I experienced my first punctured tubeless tire. I was coming down grade into an intersection at about 30 mph when I hit some debris from a previous vehicle accident. At first, I was not quite sure what occurred, since the experience is much different than that of tube blow-out. By comparison, it was a very controlled deflation of the front tire, despite the size of the gash. The sealant spewed out as a mist almost looking like smoke. I came to a stop about 75 yards from where the impact took place. The sealant did its best, but it could not keep the wound healed above 10 psi. I had to call my wife for a sag-wagon assist, since I was 10 miles out. One lesson learned was fit test the bike in your vehicle should the need arise. I had not previously attempted to place the bike in the back of our SUV. My Silvio 1.0 fit fine, but I found that the tailbox on the S40 added length to the overall bike. After some trial an error, we found taking off the back wheel and bringing the tailbox up between the front seat was the best fit. I have always transport S40 on a hitch rack, which is too heavy for my wife to manage.

A few questions: does anyone have advice on how to field dress a tire wound while leaving the tire on the rim? I have seen that several manufactures offer tire plug kits, but they seem to be suited for lower pressure MTB tires. Has anyone attempted this on road tire? I have also heard of using cyanoacrylate (super glue) as temporary external patch. Of course, installing a tube is alternative, but I would prefer it be the last resort.

After returning home, I pull the tire off of the rim. There was a surprising amount of sealant still in the tire. The gash was about 7mm, which I patch on the inside some heavy rubber tape and Bob Smith Industries Super Glue, an industrial level cyanoacrylate. The patch seems to be holding fine. I placed it opposite of the stem to counter any added weight the tire.

Stash a tube in the frame in a zip lock bag and a dollar bill. If the gash is that bad you'll have to get the tire half off; remove the tubeless value; insert the tube and place the dollar bill inbetween the tube and the tire; then reseat the tire and inflate. Anything that takes me more that 40 miles from the house I carry those supplies to avoid the 2 hour round trip pickup drive from the wife. Oddly I usually flat about .5 miles from home if ever.

 

[super slim]

Stash a tube in the frame in a zip lock bag and a dollar bill. If the gash is that bad you'll have to get the tire half off; remove the tubeless value; insert the tube and place the dollar bill inbetween the tube and the tire; then reseat the tire and inflate. Anything that takes me more that 40 miles from the house I carry those supplies to avoid the 2 hour round trip pickup drive from the wife. Oddly I usually flat about .5 miles from home if ever.

You should use an Canadian $5 note, which is a copy of the AUSTRALIAN notes, to stop fake notes being created, as it is plastic polymer material with a see through window and holographic, is much stronger than a paper note!!!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_Australian_dollar

 

[trplay]

I experienced my first punctured tubeless tire. I was coming downgrade into an intersection at about 30 mph when I hit some debris from a previous vehicle accident. At first, I was not quite sure what occurred, since the experience is much different than that of tube blow-out. By comparison, it was a very controlled deflation of the front tire, despite the size of the gash.
I have seen that several manufacturers offer tire plug kits, but they seem to be suited for lower pressure MTB tires. Has anyone attempted this on road tire?

The gash was about 7mm, which I patch on the inside some heavy rubber tape and Bob Smith Industries Super Glue, an industrial level cyanoacrylate.

Congratulations on your wise choice of a tubeless tire on the front wheel of an MBB. The Boo-Birds are very effective in marginalizing the advantages of tubeless but tubeless is slowly gaining traction. My dynaplug kit advertises you can use up to four large plugs in the same hole. This is way more than needed for a 7mm cut. I'm measuring one large plug at 6.5 mm. I am confident the plugs will hold this size hole. I see no reason it wouldn't. Especially since I'm using the Jason recommended Trucker sealant which is more aggressive than the Schwalbe and Stans sealants. I'm betting one plug (maybe 1 big and 1 little plug) and if you needed air a co2 shot and you could have made it home and probably more. Tubeless is worth a try if you are a frequent rider who rides often, not necessarily far. If your bike sits weeks at a time in the garage or you don't have tubeless rims then not.

 

[3WHELZ]

Congratulations on your wise choice of a tubeless tire on the front wheel of an MBB. The Boo-Birds are very effective in marginalizing the advantages of tubeless but tubeless is slowly gaining traction. My dynaplug kit advertises you can use up to four large plugs in the same hole. This is way more than needed for a 7mm cut. I'm measuring one large plug at 6.5 mm. I am confident the plugs will hold this size hole. I see no reason it wouldn't. Especially since I'm using the Jason recommended Trucker sealant which is more aggressive than the Schwalbe and Stans sealants. I'm betting one plug (maybe 1 big and 1 little plug) and if you needed air a co2 shot and you could have made it home and probably more. Tubeless is worth a try if you are a frequent rider who rides often, not necessarily far. If your bike sits weeks at a time in the garage or you don't have tubeless rims then not.

trplay,

Thank you for your input regarding the dynaplug kit. This exactly the information I needed on how to temporarily field dress a damaged tubeless tire without removing it from the rim. I was not confident that plugs would work on a road tire. It will be my next acquisition

Previously, I have used my “bikers-20” (for non-US readers, $20 bill) or a Park Tool TB-2 emergency patch. This year I dumped the pump for CO2, carrying three cartridges. We will see if this a mistake; however, a mini-pump is virtually useless on a tubeless tire.

BTW, I now have about 100 miles on the patched tire. Absolutely no bulging or seepage. The first trip out included a short ride with a couple dozen speed humps to see if the jolts would affect the patch. For those that may have an interest, the heavy rubber tap used is Scotch 2242 Rubber Electrical Tape. It is 30 mil thick.

I also I totally agree with your comment on tubeless tires. I never plan to return to tubes. Not only do tubes deflate much faster, I was going through at least a 6-pack a year. I was just about purchase a spare Sector 28 until I saw that Continental recently release their new Grand Prix 5000 TL Tubeless Tire.

 

[jond]

Hmm carrying a pump and spare tube plus patches etc despite ride quality advantage seems to me on balance when non racing its easier to stick with tubes.

Of course tubeless is great and I run my fat bike that way and don’t carry a tube. 750 grams per tube plus impossible to fit by hand.....

I’ve got tubeless ready rims for the vendetta but I’m not so tempted.

It’s messy and with too many just in case scenarios it’s simpler for me to run tubes. The fact I don’t get many of those hissing let downs is the decisive factor. If I rode wire strewn highways I’d run tubeless or tannus no doubt.

Yep I’ve been sprayed with Stan’s one to many times lol. And the boogers in my tyres were unsightly lol. That was on mtb tyres.

I ride a local loop repeatedly almost daily 300 klm plus per week.

Tubes are clean and easy.

Tubeless is easy smart better ride but.......the caveats are too many. Especially if you’re out on an audax.

Then again I know some minimalist tubed riders who take only one tube out on 1200 klm brevets which for my risk averse sensibilities is crazy.

I’ve given one a tube lol. To each their own it’s all good fun.

 

[Bill K]

Then again I know some minimalist tubed riders who take only one tube out on 1200 klm brevets which for my risk averse sensibilities is crazy.

I've seen this work well for fast riders. There is always someone behind them that is willing to give them a tube. I've seen the same fast guy go through three tubes: his tube and then two more from me and another slow rider.
That $20 bill comes in handy at the end to pay for his "karma" with beers

 

[super slim]

Hmm carrying a pump and spare tube plus patches etc despite ride quality advantage seems to me on balance when non racing its easier to stick with tubes.

Of course tubeless is great and I run my fat bike that way and don’t carry a tube. 750 grams per tube plus impossible to fit by hand.....

I’ve got tubeless ready rims for the vendetta but I’m not so tempted.

It’s messy and with too many just in case scenarios it’s simpler for me to run tubes. The fact I don’t get many of those hissing let downs is the decisive factor. If I rode wire strewn highways I’d run tubeless or tannus no doubt.

Yep I’ve been sprayed with Stan’s one to many times lol. And the boogers in my tyres were unsightly lol. That was on mtb tyres.

I ride a local loop repeatedly almost daily 300 klm plus per week.

Tubes are clean and easy.

Tubeless is easy smart better ride but.......the caveats are too many. Especially if you’re out on an audax.

Then again I know some minimalist tubed riders who take only one tube out on 1200 klm brevets which for my risk averse sensibilities is crazy.

I’ve given one a tube lol. To each their own it’s all good fun.

I am surprised to ACTUALLY agree with Jond!!!!!

 

[ed72]

The Boo-Birds are very effective in marginalizing the advantages of tubeless

Every product has advantages and disadvantages depending upon the specified use and consumer needs. Tubeless solves a problem that does not exist for me while creating huge downsides.

For instance, actually just warning of significant downside risks trying to effect a repair on the road. BTW, dollar bills or Park Boots are nearly worthless on a tread puncture if you have far to ride. They are ok for sidewalls. Out of the four brands of tubeless that I tried, I could not remove any of them unless I used a huge Kool Stop tire jack. I broke more tire levers trying to get tubeless tires off. Then having to carry pliers to get the stem off in order to put a tube in? Relying upon CO2 is also problematic.

In goathead country or urban glass? Probably.

Sealant in latex tubes gives the same slower controlled deflation as a tubeless, maybe even slower.

Tires are cheap. Frayed casing? I replace. Cut tread? I replace? I don't wait for them to totally wear out.

Where tubeless shines is snake bite prevention. I had not had a snakebite flat in maybe 100,o00 miles on my upright but have had 4-5 of these on bents over the past 2 years. Why? Can't see as far ahead, can't unweight the bike, lots of night riding, and mostly because my upright fit properly wide tires. Inability/difficultly to avoid potholes is a good reason to try tubeless but be prepared to make the call of shame.

Churp, churp

 

[3WHELZ]

For instance, actually just warning of significant downside risks trying to effect a repair on the road. BTW, dollar bills or Park Boots are nearly worthless on a tread puncture if you have far to ride. They are ok for sidewalls. Out of the four brands of tubeless that I tried, I could not remove any of them unless I used a huge Kool Stop tire jack. I broke more tire levers trying to get tubeless tires off. Then having to carry pliers to get the stem off in order to put a tube in? Relying upon CO2 is also problematic.

I experienced the same challenges when removing Conti Gatorskins from my Silvio 1.0's rims. The Sector 28s are easily mounted without tools and easily persuaded off the rim with a single lever. I cannot say it whether the ease of installation and removal is associated with tire or the wheel. Initially, I was cautious riding with them over concern that they may easily separate from the wheel's rim while cornering.

 

[trplay]

Hmm carrying a pump and spare tube plus patches etc despite ride quality advantage seems to me on balance when non racing its easier to stick with tubes.

Comparing a self-supporting long distance or world tour ride standard for the tubeless against a typical 30 mile Sunday around the area ride for the tubed tire is a bit much. Using your non-racing standard ride I would say the tubeless rider is pretty much safe taking nothing extra at all. The only reason to bring anything extra that comes to mind would be to help your tubed buddies who have a much higher likelihood of flatting.

 

[ed72]

I can install pretty much any tubed tire without a lever. I struggled to mount all 4 different tubeless brands on 3 different rim models/brands. Some of the Bon Jons were harder than others to mount, ostensibly due to wide tolerances in the supple casings. I also had one blow off the rim. Aside from the mess, I reverted back after almost 18 months.

The cuts on Schwalbe Pro One and Compass Bon Jon were so large that sealant would not handle.

In my tire testing, the Pro Ones also rolled much slower than Vittoria Speeds, Conti Supersonics, 28 mm GP4000 with latex, slower than GP4000 25 mm with latex. On par with GP4000 25 mm with butyl and a little faster than Specialized tubeless, Schwalbe One with Latex, Compass extra light offerings, top end tubulars, etc. I have not tested the GP5000 with tubeless but I am considering trying them because I have so much faith in Conti. I have burned thru 3 GP5000 tires since last Fall and not a single cut thru the tread rubber let alone into the casing. If I can mount with normal metal tire irons, I might be a reconvert, convert.

 

[trplay]

I can install pretty much any tubed tire without a lever.

I have some 16" rims used on my Catrike Speed I would love to see you do this with- I'll even pay to watch. These rims were what taught me tradecraft is the most critical factor in tire changing tires.


The cuts on Schwalbe Pro One and Compass Bon Jon were so large that sealant would not handle.

DynaPlug. Keep in mind Jan directs his tires to be run flat anyway. Jeez, Louise dont put 80 pounds in them. Too dangerous he says!

If I can mount with normal metal tire irons, I might be a reconvert, convert.

I'll call this bluff-- you are bigger, stronger, smarter than I and I know, you know how to change a flat. Remember, I saw you changing one when you flatted on the Florida brevet (BTW tubeless would have prevented that pinch flat.) You can do it, even without metal tire irons so it might be time to reconvert.

 

[ed72]

When did I put 80 pounds in Bon Jons? They blew out under 70. Spec was 75 tubeless and 90 with tubes. Jan now recommends 60 psi tubeless max. (I wonder why). I never ever ran them that high with tubes.

I am sure the pinch flat would not have happened in Florida been tubeless had I but my M5 2-Spoke wheel does not take to tubeless tires and my choice of 23 mm tire was also an element to the flat. I hit a bad RR track at speed, an aluminum rim would have been destroyed. On an upright, I would have bunny hopped those nasty tracks. When I indicated difficulty mounting or changing tubeless tires, that was before my left hand became somewhat useless. It took me 30 minutes to fix the flat in Florida.....that problem won't resolve.

I doubt DynaPlug would fix the 12-20+ mm holes that I saw on two brand new Compass tires or the 8-12 mm slits in the casing of the Schwalbe Pro Ones. I went thru 4 Schwalbes in no time, I was ruining one every weekend. I carry an extra tire, albeit a 165 gram one. And, a real boot.

I usually don't have the option of the call of shame.

What I would suggest to anyone on the fence is to do the conversion and then see if you can mount and dismount the tire in your warm, dry garage. In the last month, I have come across three cyclists walking because they could not fix the flat. Two were tubeless. The third had front and rear flats and he was riding Gatorskins. I offered to repair but he had was going to wait for the bike shop to come. If someone on the fence can't easily mount, dismount and convert back in their garage, they need to be prepared to have someone pick them up. It is not a question of if, but when it happens. Once a year? Twice? I did not find tubeless any more reliable than using tubes when on an upwrong. Riding at night on a bent has given me pinched flats, but I consider the issue there more related to insufficient tire size.

I am going to try GP5000 tubeless. I just rebuilt the Powertap G3 hubs using top end Japanese bearings and am going to put it onto a 28 hole Flo 60 carbon once the spokes get here, Flo 60 is sort of half decent in terms of mounting tubeless. I have to see if my bike can handle 28 mm before I order a tubeless tire. I don't look forward to cleaning sealant off the bike but there is no question, you get earlier warning of a flat on tubeless tires.

 

[trplay]

Hello- my name is Hardy and I'm a tubeless addict. This is my story and I'm sticking to it. My history

When did I put 80 pounds in Bon Jons? I went thru 4 Schwalbes in no time, I was ruining one every weekend.

Hello- My name is Hardy and I'm a Pro One addict. This is my story and I'm sticking to it. We started using Pro ones around 2015 and after more than 50,000 miles I have never bought anything else. Yes, they wear faster than a lot of tires but since 2015 we have never had to take a wheel off the rim while on a ride. No flats, but I believe I did have to add sealant and add some air with a c02 cartridge once. Click here for a blog post made in 2015, This still holds true today.


What I would suggest to anyone on the fence is to do the conversion and then see if you can mount and dismount the tire in your warm, dry garage.
Good advice, but I believe many will struggle only because this is a learned skill. You get better with practice and that takes practice.

I am going to try GP5000 tubeless. I just rebuilt the Powertap G3 hubs using top end Japanese bearings and am going to put it onto a 28 hole Flo 60 carbon once the spokes get here, Flo 60 is sort of half decent in terms of mounting tubeless. I have to see if my bike can handle 28 mm before I order a tubeless tire. I don't look forward to cleaning sealant off the bike but there is no question, you get earlier warning of a flat on tubeless tires.

A tip on Flo's: They stink in the rain. As posted in the past and reinforced in last weeks 100+ mile rain ride the fairings fill with water-- lots of water and do not drain so well. My 90's have drain holes but they aren't effective. Connie's 60's do not have drain holes and they fill up same as the 90's. When you add the water held by the Cruzbike frame I had enough water to cross the Sahara. I know I should drill a hole in the Cruzbike frame but I just can't do it to this expensive frame. Better to just suck it up when it rains. As far as the Flo's ? Don't ride in the rain.

 

[ratz]

This value of the following + $4.50 will get you a Starbucks.

Since moving to Silca Rim Tape and the GP5000 I finally have a Tubeless setup that delivers what I had hoped for over 4 years ago. I suspect it will be better yet in the future. The likelihood that one of my bikes has tubeless versus tube is directly related to the top speed it can go.

 

[3WHELZ]

Looking forward to your review of the GP5000. I would suggest investing in Silca's stems over their tape. Also, their HIRO stainless steel locking chuck is the best that I have come across.