Dan Hardin
New Member
Oh, I should have stated that I have a new V20 frame that I am running the 28mm TL tires on.
Tubeless tires anyone?
- Thread starter Osiris
- Start date
Dan Hardin
New Member
Thanks Micheal
Dan Hardin
New Member
I have now installed a 32mm GP 5000 TL on the front of my V20 with Mavic Ksyriums Elite UST 700cc wheelset and still have 2mm clearance at its closest point. I installed it on the front because I believe that the front has a little less clearance than the rear. This 32mm tire came with a little more runout where the seam meets on the inside of the tire, so there is a wobble of about 2mm side to side. I have tried everything that I know to improve the wobble, but it remains at 2mm (soap, stretching, reseating, more stretching, and reseating). These TL tires don't stretch much!!! I would have sent it back if I didn't have clearance, but I really wanted to try it out.
All of my other TL GP 5000's (25mm and 28mm) have had less than 1mm of runout. My wheels have less than .5mm runout in both height and width.
Seating the GP 5000 TL tires have been easily achieved with only a manual mountain bike tire pump that has higher air volume and less pressure. I seated this tire about 2 dozen times when working on the runout issue. The installation on the rim is where these tires are a pain in the hands. I use a tire jack to install them, but even with a tire jack, you may need one more hand for that last inch of tire lip. This is because my Ksyriums don't have an internal deep-v for the recess of the tire bead to provide more tire length for that last inch.
I still have about 3mm height clearance on the brake caliper and frame, but the side of the brake caliper is only about 2mm on one side due to the runout issue of the tire, so this means that I will have to pay attention to the brake caliper side to side alignment which is no big deal to me because it is one of my pre-ride checks.
I have put about 75 miles on this tire and it feels great over bumps and dropping into corners. It really excels on chip-sealed roads by eliminating most of the chatter from the endless bumps. I have tried 70, 65 and 60 lbs of pressure so far and I believe that I will stick to 60lbs. There are no signs of sealant on the tire seat at 60lbs, so I am not worried about pinch flats at this pressure. I may even try 55lbs, but I think that I am pushing it at 60lbs.
I don't know if it has better traction because I haven't ridden in the rain yet. I do know that I like them much better, so I ordered one for the rear and I may replace the front one due to the runout issue.
In conclusion, 32 GP 5000 TL tires will fit on a V20 without rubbing, but it will depend on your wheelset and tire runout (wobble).
All of my other TL GP 5000's (25mm and 28mm) have had less than 1mm of runout. My wheels have less than .5mm runout in both height and width.
Seating the GP 5000 TL tires have been easily achieved with only a manual mountain bike tire pump that has higher air volume and less pressure. I seated this tire about 2 dozen times when working on the runout issue. The installation on the rim is where these tires are a pain in the hands. I use a tire jack to install them, but even with a tire jack, you may need one more hand for that last inch of tire lip. This is because my Ksyriums don't have an internal deep-v for the recess of the tire bead to provide more tire length for that last inch.
I still have about 3mm height clearance on the brake caliper and frame, but the side of the brake caliper is only about 2mm on one side due to the runout issue of the tire, so this means that I will have to pay attention to the brake caliper side to side alignment which is no big deal to me because it is one of my pre-ride checks.
I have put about 75 miles on this tire and it feels great over bumps and dropping into corners. It really excels on chip-sealed roads by eliminating most of the chatter from the endless bumps. I have tried 70, 65 and 60 lbs of pressure so far and I believe that I will stick to 60lbs. There are no signs of sealant on the tire seat at 60lbs, so I am not worried about pinch flats at this pressure. I may even try 55lbs, but I think that I am pushing it at 60lbs.
I don't know if it has better traction because I haven't ridden in the rain yet. I do know that I like them much better, so I ordered one for the rear and I may replace the front one due to the runout issue.
In conclusion, 32 GP 5000 TL tires will fit on a V20 without rubbing, but it will depend on your wheelset and tire runout (wobble).
Dan Hardin
New Member
19mm is the internal width of the Mavic UST wheels. I measured the tire when installed at 65lbs of pressure and the average width is 32.5mm, so very close to stated width. One of 8 checked spots was at 33mm all the others were in the 32.5 range or below. It is really hard to measure the height clearance, so 3mm clearance is an estimate. I used scrap pieces of wood like feeler gauges that were 2mm, 2.5mm, 3mm, and 3.5mm because there is no way to get my digital calipers into that tight space. The 3mm would clear between the tire and the brake caliper, but not the 3.5mm. The frame height is a little more tricky to measure due to the curvature of the frame and distance of the congruency of both frame and tire.
I do believe that the clearance will be directly related to the wheel geometry of internal width and seat height. I did notice that the seat line indicator on the 32mm GP 5000 TL tire is only .5mm above the wheel when fully seated, so the UST wheels seat the tire a little lower than my other tire wheel combinations by .5mm to 1mm. This may be giving me just a tad more clearance. I have a set of Boyds and DT Swiss wheels that the seat line indicator is 2mm above the wheel when mounting 25mm GP 5000 TL. Both Boyds and DT are 17mm internal widths.
I am confident in my clearance now and I will have more height clearance as the tire wears. I will have the 32mm rear tire next week, but I will not be able to test until I get back from a week of hiking in Sedona.
I know that this is a long response, but I could NOT find anywhere on this forum of a detailed study of "How wide can you go on a V20 with a TL tire"
Dan Hardin
New Member
I have now returned from a hiking vacation and installed the GP 5000 TL 32mm on the rear Mavic wheel and discovered an even larger runout on this tire. The 4mm runout was mostly unilateral on the left side of the bike, so this exceeds my 6mm total allowable runout that is bilateral 3mm per side. Most of the tire is perfect with a very minimal runout of less than one whole mm per side. After working on seating the tire countless times, I took it to my LBS and the go-to guy for mounting and truing wheels. After 3 hours, my guy stated that its a defect in the tire, and there is no way to reduce it by 2mm on the left side, so I will be sending this tire back for replacement. I am not happy with the quality of the runout of any of my GP 5000 TL tires to date, but this one is the worst one of the bunch. I am a fanboy of the GP 4000 series tires, so I would like to see if the quality improves over time, but for now, I may look for another brand. Mavics' brand Yksion tires are straight with minimal runout, but their compound is very soft, prone to cuts, and early wear.
Sorry for leaving more questions than conclusive answers.
rx7mark
Guru
I have been happy with Michelin tires I have tried so far. A sample size of just one.
But they have a new tubeless tire in 28mm and 32 mm the Power Road that is described as a Racing and training tire. May not be quite as low of rolling resistance as the 5000TL's , but may be perfect for my day to day biking.
Mark
But they have a new tubeless tire in 28mm and 32 mm the Power Road that is described as a Racing and training tire. May not be quite as low of rolling resistance as the 5000TL's , but may be perfect for my day to day biking.
Mark
sorry to here about that. I have bought 4 of the 32mm GP5000TL tires and I had no noticeable runout on any of them. I have a lot of clearance so it is not as critical for me and I haven’t measured as exactly as you did. But I have fenders that are close enough to the tires to give a good visual reference point. I am pretty sure that mine were within 1 mm of true.
Dan Hardin
New Member
Thank you Mark for the suggestion. I ran 25mm Michelin Service Course tires for years and I got a few bad seams, so I tried the Continental GP and never looked back. I will have to do some research on the Michelins.
Dan Hardin
New Member
Brad,
I have been ordering my GP 5000 TL from Bike Tire Direct. Could I ask where you purchased your 5000's?
The first two came with the bike. I don't know where John Schlitter sourced them.
The second two came from Bike Closet. They had a good price (or good enough price).
For the fall riding season, I decided to explore some of the dirt roads around here and decided that I needed fatter tires.
I ordered Continental 40-622 Terra Speed tires from Bike Closet. They seem to be true also. I have a Freestyle so I have more room for fatter tires.
Both of my orders from Bike Closet came in the Continental retail packaging. So, I don't think they did anything special.
On my 19c rims (Vision Team 30 disc wheels), the Terra Speeds are probably a little less than 40mm. They really improve the ride over sharp bumps on pavement and
embedded rocks (high frequency chatter) on the dirt roads. They also provide a lot more confidence allowing for higher speeds on actual gravel and bike paths with
"tree root" bumps.
I've only ridden about 150 miles on them so far. So, I cannot speak to longevity. But I really like the ride. My plan was to go back to the 32mm GP5000TL's in the spring.
But given how much I like the improved ride and the small speed penalty that I feel, the GP5000's might have to wait for events or periods of time when I expect to find
pretty smooth pavement.
I know I can soften the ride on the GP5000's by running less than 60psi, but I worry about rim damage if I hit an unexpected or unavoidable sharp edged bump
at too high of a speed when running lower pressures.
Good luck finding tires you like with the quality you have a right to expect at these prices.
Dan Hardin
New Member
Thanks, Brad and Don 1.
I ordered the Michelin Power Road TS TLR 32mm based on your recommendation and installed it today on my rear. It was a great experience. I installed it without a tire jack and mostly by hand, and only in the last 2 inches, I used a tire lever. I do believe that I could have succeeded without a tire lever. The Power TLR sealed with a regular floor pump and the best part was that the runout was less than a millimeter in both height and width. I don't know how they ride, but the install couldn't have been better and I do believe that I could easily throw a tube in this tire on the road if the hole is bigger than a plug would fix. I have ordered one for the front and I will test them over several hundreds of miles and report back.
Thanks again,
Dan
Dan Hardin
New Member
I just installed my second Power TLR and I got my calipers out to measure the new Michelin Power Road TS TLR 32mm. They average 33.4mm in width with the largest width of 33.65mm and an average height measurement of 29.3mm with the highest point of 29.6mm. I refined my height measurement technique with a level gage on top of the tire to the top surface of the rim with digital calipers. 8 spots were taken for both width and height.
Measured on Mavic UST wheels with 19mm internal widths. The tire pressure was 65 psi and ambient temperature was 82 degrees.
Michelin Power TLR 32mm
Width avg: 33.4mm
Height avg: 29.3mm
Contin GP 5000 TL 32mm
Width avg: 32.5mm
Height avg: 28.6mm
As you can see the Michelin's are about 1 mm in width and a .5mm in height, but the runout is less than 1 mm, so I have more clearance in my frame and brake calipers.
After a 32-mile test ride:
No noticeable ride, grip, or rolling resistance between the two brands in my initial opinion, but the Michelin's seem to lean faster than the GP's. This is likely due to the radius of the tires are slightly different.
Conclusion:
You can run 32mm tubeless tires on a V20, but the clearances are very tight, so you MUST pay close attention to wheel selection, wheel installation, tire seating, tire runout, skewer closure and if running rim brakes, then brake caliper alignment. In my opinion, 32mm TL tire offers a much better ride, traction, and confidence. It was worth it for me to find the right combination of wheels and tires, but my journey is not recommended if you are on a tight budget because I started with 25mm and then ordered 28mm and now I am on my second brand of 32mm tires.
I will report back with an update on the Michelin Power TLR tire's durability and ride comfort.
I can say now that the Power's are much better to install and much less runout than the GP 5000 for the ones that I received.
