Ultra-Mod Softrider Progressing

[TalleyHo]

What i'm calling now the Ultra-Mod Sofrider has progressed lately, getting fenders, front disc brake and proper chain tensioner. This to go along with the other mods, nuvinci hub, geared hub e-assist system, freerider bars, steering damper and center kickstand.

The chain tensioner is the Surly Singulator and it works great and makes wheel placement a breeze. Here's a better shot of the disc brake.

This rig is just fantastic! It thrives in traffic, out-accelerating most everything out there and is quite the going concern in town. In a way I regret doing more to it because once the front and rear farings are on i'll have a my "car" but will somewhat loose the bike. Might have to pick up another Sofrider to leave as the pure fantastic bike it is. I'm pretty sure I could sell a lot of these. In my nearly 20 years of riding recumbents I have never seen anything like the interest people are showing with this bike. Every other person I see goes out of there way to question me about it. Some are prejudiced aagainst recumbents but this one is different, somehow, they think. Most are just tired of the discomfort of their hybrid or MTB and the Sofrider just screams COMFORT.

But this one is going to be my car (to go with my Sprinter Van) and I need weather protection front faring and an air foil shaped rear faring/cargo hold which I'll have to make sometime. The Schlumpf HSD which I have will have to wait until the dead of winter as it requires decommissioning and sending off for milling but the 34t chainring really is enough for now.

The Silvio is still my baby and it get's a real workout about 2+ times a week and I'm already eclipsing personal bests on any previous bikes an the 3 time trial courses I do ( 7,10 and 15 miles) but when I need to go to town 15 miles away for something that doesn't have a cargo issue or it's a recovery day, or it's a workout day, even, with the Silvio, I'm loving this ride.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Keep the updates coming. I'll

Keep the updates coming. I'll be particularly interested in the fairing and tail box. What about a sock, too?

 

[chrisblessing]

E Assist

Tallyho, can you please let me know what e-assist you're using for this? I'm looking into this as an option as well. This is very impressive.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[TalleyHo]

body sock and e-assist

As for a body sock, Charles, I'm looking to balance practicality in the mix here and don't see that happening. I have had experience with a full sock on a Easy Racer Javelin and it was a most uncanny experience to at all times have the sense of riding with a significant tailwind and average speed jumped from 18 to 20 mph at the time on the courses I ran it. The fixed and hopefully super-light tail rig, foil-shaped for aero-lift is partly designed and believe can all be supported on non-suspended rear section. That's likely a December project as I'm super busy this fall but I need the cargo hold now. Expect to rig panniers temporarily. But the front faring, a wind-wrap that i've had for many years on a Haluzak (now retired) is just lacking a few hardware parts. It should be up very soon.

Chris, the e-assist system is called E-Bike Kit and is paired with a Falco cannister battery and I got both from E Bikes of New England in New Hampshire. I was attracted to it's small size hub and the shape of the battery which is 11.6 ah at 36v and is just 5.5 lbs, it's a very light weight system as these things go and enhances the Sofrider's already superb handling by lowering the c of g a substantial amount.

Dave

 

[Alangordon]

Gearing for the nuvinci

Hello Tallyho

impressive stuff! I am just about to order an n360 and would be interested in advice on gearing. I notice you have the double chainring on. Is it the 48 and 34 that came standard? What size sprocket is on the nuvinci?

I won't be going with the e assist but want the hub for bikepacking trips on dirt roads so a good selection of granny gears is required.

any suggestions as to what chainring/sprocket combos I should be aiming for?

 

[TalleyHo]

Nuvinci Gearing


Alan; The Nuvinci sprocket I'm using is the 16T, the highest gearing available and with my e-assist that makes sense and works well. However if I didn't have the assist I would want the 20T sprocket for the stock Sofrider. i have eliminated the FD now on mine and do well just staying in the 34T ring, able to get 25MPH spinning which for my purposes is enough speed BUT with out the assist there would be issues starting up hills and steep climbing w/o the assist and the 16T sprocket. I'm guessing that the 20T in the 48T ring will get you plenty of speed.

Just another plug here for the Sofrider. I am totally smitten by the bike. It's the most fun I've had on 2 wheels! It's about the handling. The larger volume tires with aggressive tread gives me the confidence to lay it over. The seating location and posture is ideal for balance control for me. The extra e-boost just enhances the experience. (and may improve the handling). Brilliant design, IMO.

 

[Alangordon]

I really appreciate the

I really appreciate the response. I am going to get a bike shop to fit for me but, as they have admitted they have not doe it before I am hoping to spoon feed them as much info as possible. I hope you don't mind a couple of extra questions.

According to NuVinci their hubs are only suited to 3/32" chains and sprockets so, the fact that you are using the original Cruzbike cogs leads to to assume that they are 3/32" rather than the usual 1/8"?? Tried measuring mine with verniers and came in at around 2.1mm. Not sure exactly how to measure as there is difference between cog plate and teeth.

The other question is whether the Schwable Marathons fit the original rims. I had been told not, so have you upgraded to wider rims?

I really like my bike as well but I am disappointed that it does not have front suspension. I have read the rationale put forward by Cruzbike as to why they removed it however I disagree and suspect it was more about containing costs. I ride exclusively off road -not mountain bike territory but certainly on rough roads with variable conditions (rocks, tree roots, corrugations, pot hoes etc) and the lack of front suspension on a recumbent bike I think is a little bit dangerous under those circumstances.

I am hoping an upgrade to even wider tyres may help to some extent.

 

[TalleyHo]

The Nuvinci installation was

The Nuvinci installation was a bit tricky as a newbie bike mechanic and I managed to fumble a bit and install the unit out of the middle point in it's range and as a result have unavailable about 15% of it's low end but do have 100% of it's upper range. But it's OK here... with assist and no long climbs. I just mentioned this as something to be aware of. I also dealt with the chain question and determined that the Sofrider's chain is correct for hub. Both my wheels are new; the hub motor comes built in to heavy-duty wheel and the nuvinci was bought on ebay for the $180 price and given to LBS for wheel build. I specified that the wheel accommodate a 1.5 tire by 26" and that it be disc brake and rim brake capable. I like the front suspension when it's very rough and for off road, I agree, is much preferred but for the road I'd actually prefer the single rear suspension for performance handling reasons which is what I most like about this bike.

 

[TalleyHo]

Sofrider with faring

The Wind Wrap faring which served me for a decade on the Haluzak is now on the emerging UltraMod Sofrider as of today. Preliminary trials are promising. The biggest concern was how it might effect handling but I notice nothing at all different with it there other than the extra space it takes up when parking. (It is super light) It does seem noticeably faster, to my surprise, but then there is quite a bit of drag reduction from the legs, feet/pedals and the bikes front end. Now I'm more inclined to rethink using the HSD, especially if the rear faring is as effective as I hope. The faring's rear strut is to support the electronics which is to be a Cycle Analyst computer and e-assist console. So far so very good!

 

[TalleyHo]

Fairing Test

The addition of the fairing besides giving the weather protection I was after provided what seemed like a significant speed boost. So to find out if that was so and by how much I conducted a controlled test with and w/o the fairing. This was not to give precision info but just a rough idea and was simply a coast down a nearby hill with a max speed determination in both modes. The variables of speed at start and head wind were considered and I always erred on the conservative side in my figuring. There was a flag near the road on a pole toward the top of the course to monitor wind on each run which about 500 meters long. I did 3 runs in each mode and figured an average. Figuring conservatively the max speed is at least 2.5 mph greater with the fairing and likely is upwards of 1 mph more. How this translates to increasing average speed on the 35 mile commute I regularly do is yet to be seen.

Also unexpected is how this addition has effected my gearing situation. I have been content with using just the 34T ring with the Nuvinci's 16T cog (effectively 9T when in high range) and spinning out at about 25mph. I've been less concerned with high end speed and more concerned with high low-end speed as a way to keep average speed upward of 19 mph on the long commute. Now with the fairing I'm reaching the need for overdrive much sooner and I find that I'm NOT content with staying at 23-25 mph when I sense I can easily drive it into the upper 20s. So what to do?

Well I immediately reinstalled the FD and shifter (more room for shifter now that there is a "dash" hanging from fairing support and a place for e-assist console) BUT I had shortened the chain for the chain tensioner to work optimally and need now to get a materlink and add chain. I'm most fond of the tensioner and, BTW, there was a significant performance gain by replacing the RD with the tensioner, a lot of weight and some power loss gain. So, TO SCHLUMPF OR NOT TO SCHLUMPF, that is the question. I have the HSD but it is, as they usually are, a 27T ring and that puts the overdrive shift speed at the unacceptable point of 15 mph. I don't want to always be shifting or spend most of the tome in OD. So the only way I'll do HSD is by converting the 27T to 34T but that is pricey and I end up with a 85T effective OD ring and a potential 218 gear-inch high end!!! Less than appealing, really. I'll try to go with the stock 48T and hope the tensioner can handle it or change tensioners if necessary.

 

[chrisblessing]

to SCHLUMPF or....

Hi Tallyho,

I am using the NuVinci N360, with 15t sprocket, in combination with a Patterson-Metropolis crankset (28/45) on my 20" folder. According to Sheldon Brown I have a gear inch of 17.2-99.5. The PM is pretty no-nonsense, but does require a shifter. I'm using a GripShift. I know you've made an investment in the Schlumpf, but if you've got room for one more shifter you might want to consider it. Between the two I've eliminated the need for a tensioner, resulting in as clean a chainline as can be.

With a 26" 1.25 the gear inch would be 22.8-132.

Regards,

Chris

 

[thwaters]

Ultra-Mod Softrider

Very interested - want to keep up with details of your mods. I've been thinking about a Windwrap fairing for a long time. Which model of fairing is the one you're using? The GX? Which size compared to what they offer now? I have installed a Tubus Logo rack backwards under the seat (using way too many turnbolts and clamps - too heavy) but it is solid! Bought Arkel Recumbent 60L bags to fit on my racks; still making adjustments, installing fenders, etc.

Tried to load pic, file was too large (4.66 mb jpeg).

 

[TalleyHo]

Schlumpf and Wind Wrap

Chris;
It seems that the PM would have the same issue as the HSD for me, namely having to shift at about 15 mph. Maybe I'm a bit spoiled by not having to shift at all lately but I do especially object to spending 90% of the time in overdrive which has some power loss and noise issues. I ran the HSD on previous bike and did not love it for these reasons and so suspect I'll be selling it. The stock FD/ double ring set up seems the best alternative. The Surly tensioner which is so cool and much loved will need to go, I think, as it's designed for single speed. I'm still holding out a slim hope that the Surly will handle the 14 tooth shift I need or I will be back to using the stock RD in fixed position as tensioner for now. But there is a power loss with that compared to Surly and/or no tensioner.

But i'm curious how you you get away with no tensioner at all. Please explain how that is done.

thwaters;

The wind wrap i have was purchased about 10 years ago and without researching can't tell you which one it is. But I think that most any that are made for SWB bikes/trikes could be made to work. I'm planning to build a rear fairing/tail piece designed to be both light and easily removed as well as aero-foil shaped for max push and drag reduction plus cargo hold and that seems to be happening sooner than later as I need the cargo hold asap.

As for getting hi res images on the forum... if someone could please explain the way that is done. Thanks

Dave

 

[Jeremy S]

As for getting hi res images

As for getting hi res images on the forum... if someone could please explain the way that is done. Thanks

A couple of ways (neither super straightforward):

1. Use an image editor to up the compression or your JPEG before you try to upload to the Cruzbike servers. I usually have to get images under 300k for them to be accepted. You can also decrease the resolution if you want, forum posts are a little under 800 pixels wide.
2. Upload to another site that allows big, high-res photos. Then paste the URL of the image into the URL field of the Image Info tab, when you try to insert the photo here.

Hope that helps...

 

[TalleyHo]

hi res images

Jeremy; Thanks for those suggestions. I suspect that #2 is what gives best results. What are such sites?

 

[Jeremy S]

Good question, I use #1

Good question, I use #1 myself... Flickr and Google, which I use for photos, don't seem to provide permanent image URLs.

 

[chrisblessing]

no tensioner

Hi TallyHo,

The conversion kit, has quite a bit of room in the dropout for sliding the axle in or out. Once I found the best position for brake pad clearance, I adjusted the chain to the right length, locked the wheel in, and there it stays. Taking the tensioner out means that when I fold and pack the bike I can simply undo the KMC missing link on the chain and pull it out with no fiddling, and just as easily reassemble it when unpacking (it's worth noting that I built this conversion to quickly pack away for travel).

Chris

 

[TalleyHo]

Need Tensioner

Chris;
The Sofrider has no such drop out room, it seems, and I do need the tensioner but, as I've been saying, I really like the one I have. Beside the very easy wheel removal/installation it's just a nicely designed piece. And I believe there is some capacity there for shifting, although Surly would disagree. I'm not sure if i'll be able to quite get it to behave with the 34-48 jump but I'm considering a smaller big ring if necessary. I only need a little overdrive on top of the 34 ring for my purposes.

Also thanks for the info on the Patterson-Metro unit; I would consider it too but seems to have the same issue as the Schlumpf... a lot of shifting right in the mid range. All I want is an overdrive above about 24 mph. When the tail fairing unit happens here, however, i suppose I might want more than I can have and still keep that tensioner then it's back to the RD, I suppose.. or who knows? Currently waiting on chain and links to learn verdict.

Dave

 

[ratz]

To Schlumpf or not to Schlumpf

Just to add a note to the annoying problem of the HSD and SD shift position being right in the cruising zone. I had the same issue on a trike. The HSD and SD were really designed with folding bikes in mind. On something like the Software Rider; a Mountain drive would make a lot more sense. With a N360 or N170; a Mountain Drive with a 46-49T on the it; and a nice 22T on the Nuvinci can give you a really solid solution. I have a spreadsheet that calculates all the possible scenarios. It was build with trikers in mind by it will work for you application if you want to analyze all you options before spending any cash. Just follow the instructions on tab 1; only takes about 10 minutes to program for your bike and you can spend the rest of you time doing really easy what if analysis.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/as8hli25yyu90vj/Gearing%20on%20Nuvinci.xlsx?dl=0

 

[TalleyHo]

Schlumpfing

Thanks, Bob, for that reference. Upon considering all of this I realized that Nuvinci has a torque limit, as I understand it, on the ring-to-sprocket ratio of 1.8. With the 16T Nuvinci cog I'm limited to a 29T ring which nixes even the HSD with 27T and the MD with it's effective 20T would be a definite no-go. It seems to me now that the SD with it's 1.65 OD ratio with a 34T ring, effective 56T, is my ultimate choice for the Ultra-Mod. I'm finding that the 34 ring is just about all I need. But as aero improves there's increasing need for a little more. But would want to sell HSD first. In the meantime will continue to play around with FD options.