Upgrading Freerider V1 to 700c wheels

[rostfrei]

Hi,

After putting 1,900 enjoyable miles on the Freerider V1, I'd like to upgrade the bike to 700c wheels. I've acquired a road bike wheelset (A Class AL X330s) and Shimano 105 brakes. My question for the group is what specifically do I need to modify the 100mm O.L.D. (over-lock-nut distance) front 700c wheel to fit in the rear 135mm O.L.D. Freerider dropout? My local LBS was not helpful other than pointing me to buy a second rear 700c wheel.

Some have posted here they've upgraded the older V1 cruzbikes to 700c wheels, but I don't see any specific part list/numbers used. Any and all help appreciated!

Thanks
Rich

 

[Nanda H.]

I have pictures of a Softrider V2 that was converted to dual 700c, with a Avid BB7 up from and Tektro long reach caliper on the rear:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spincyclz/sets/72157620963801982/

 

[rostfrei]

Nanda,
Good to see your upgrade. I think one of the changes from V1 to V2 is that your rear dropout is already 100mm--ready and able to accept a standard 700c road bike front wheel. Is that correct? If not, please advise what you did to modify your wheel to fit.
Thanks
Rich

 

[henrys]

Rich,
Not too surprised the LBS just wants you to buy a new wheel, doh!

Check if the axle in your Shimano front wheel hub is the same size and threading as the rear one. You can use the locknut to compare, by trying one on t'other. If they are then you're in luck, because you can buy a new rear axle for 135mm OLD and install it in the front hub, along with spacers outside the cones to bring the spacing up to the required 135mm OLD, as on your existing set up.

If you can't install a Shimano rear axle into the front hub, you might find a solid rear axle that will fit the Shimano cones, and use it with standard nuts and not quick release.

Otherwise, if the front wheel rim and spokes are qood quality and in very good shape, I'd buy a new 135mm rear hub (or re-use the existing front hub out of the 26" wheel) and re-build the wheel onto that. Hopefully you could find someone more co-operative than your LBS to do that job for you . (Most LBS wheelbuilders will insist on renewing all the spokes which they say is essential but I disagree, it is just wasteful unless the old ones are really high mileage, but that's a whole other day's discussion :ugeek: ). Check how the overall costs add up before deciding to buy a new wheel or re-build yours.

 

[Doug Burton]

rostfrei wrote: Hi,

After putting 1,900 enjoyable miles on the Freerider V1, I'd like to upgrade the bike to 700c wheels. I've acquired a road bike wheelset (A Class AL X330s) and Shimano 105 brakes. My question for the group is what specifically do I need to modify the 100mm O.L.D. (over-lock-nut distance) front 700c wheel to fit in the rear 135mm O.L.D. Freerider dropout? My local LBS was not helpful other than pointing me to buy a second rear 700c wheel.

Some have posted here they've upgraded the older V1 cruzbikes to 700c wheels, but I don't see any specific part list/numbers used. Any and all help appreciated!

Thanks
Rich

Hi Rich,

If you have any information about your 700c wheel's hub, that would help.

If it is a ball bearing hub, you could just transfer the axle, cones, and wheel spacers from your FRV1's existing rear wheel. Use a magnet to capture the ball bearings; they'll want to run away!

Alternately, Wheels Manufacturing makes a 146mm quick release rear axle and small-diameter cone set that would allow you to convert the 700c wheel. You'd then need spacers and nuts to make up the O.L.D. I got my axles form Harris Cyclery. Tom up there is very good at working the manufacturer catalogs and can source what you need.

http://wheelsmfg.com/content/section/5/32/ See "Axle 12", Cones CN-R088 or CN-R091 (15mm cone diameter)




This picture shows the Wheels Mfg. axle , spacers and nuts on a 26" disc wheel I installed on my SRV1

Rear axle cones are usually too large in diameter to fit the cone relief hole in a front wheel hub. This is why small diameter cones are needed, with 9.5mm (3/8 inch) axles, in swapping the front wheel to rear wheel service.

Nanda, that SRV2 700c you built is a looker. I'm building one with disc brakes on a V2K framekit, using other parts from my V1.

Best,

Doug

 

[rostfrei]

Doug and henrys,

Thanks for your replies. As you can see the axle on my front wheel is not solid but hollow, and the bearings are sealed and pressed into the hub (this is typical for any modern road bike 700c wheel, correct?). Still can't see anyway to lengthen the axle in my wheel to fit in the rear dropout on the FR V1.

Here's a couple of photos of the A Class front wheel hub/axle:

Rich

 

[Doug Burton]

Hi Rich,

This hasty drawing shows what I'm contemplating to solve this problem:

Basically a piece of 3/4" 6061 T-6 aluminum rod cut to 17mm length, through-drilled to 9.5mm on one side and 9mm on the other side, to 5mm depth. A piece of 3/8" steel tube is pressed into the wide side. The 5mm-deep relief goes over the axle stube of the sealed bearing hub, and the other steel side goes into the dropout to act as a stub axle. One assembly per side.

The quick release needs to be very tight. The outside dimension of the Aluminum rod is non-critical as long as it doesn't interfere with the dropout welds. Probably the bigger the better.

I haven't made these yet. I need a pair of them for my red kit bike, which will get disc brakes and nicer wheels when I get a chance. This also lets me switch the 26" disc wheels and 700c disc wheels between the V2k Sofrider and the red bike, which has 135mm rear spacing.

Best,

Doug

 

[rostfrei]

Doug,

Great idea. I wonder: why not, then, eliminate the small spacer (that I'm holding in the second photo above) and make a wider custom spacer with a long hole on the 'inboard' side so that the maximum length of the axle stub can fit in? This custom spacer could have, as well, a space set screw tapped in just like the standard one.

Rich

 

[Doug Burton]

Hi Rich,

Your idea would certainly work. The adapter would simply take the place of the original stub axle that's retained by the set screw, and have additional coverage over the existing axle's length.

My motivation for not doing that was to be minimally invasive of the existing wheel parts; someone uncomfortable with pulling the wheel apart would just be able to slap it on and go. It could also just be pulled off when moving the wheel from a 135mm O.L.D. to 100mm. The outside diameter of the adapter becomes critical, and needs to match multiple wheel designs (I haven't checked to see if the stub axle flange, which also seals dirt out of the sealed bearing, is a universal dimension or varies from wheel to wheel; same for the bearing insertion depth into the hub.)

Great idea.

That's what this forum is really all about - one person's idea becomes the basis of an open source solution when multiple people contribute their thinking.

Good onya, Rich!

Thanks,

Doug

 

[rostfrei]

Doug,

Good point about being minimally invasive, and that axle flange may indeed provide a bit of dirt and grime protection for the sealed bearing.

What was your plan to get these manufactured? I'd be interested in acquiring a set too! Let me know when you think you'd pursue this and how much I'll owe you. If that's not possible, no big deal. I'll look into somehow getting a set of these made.

Thanks for the collaboration!

Rich

 

[Doug Burton]

Hi Rich,

These are a part of a temporarily back-burner'd project to iterate the design of my red kit bike one more time. It's getting front and rear disc brakes and a rip-off of John's steering design from the Silvio. I'll need to machine the rear caliper adapter as well.

My intention is to make them myself on my lathe-mill-drill machine. I've figured out a way to simplify the design even further, especially if I can find a 3/8 inch hollow grub screw that's about 1/2 inch long. Then I can just through-drill the aluminum round stock and thread it from one side. The drill diameter for a 3/8 inch tap is 9mm, so just tap it in so that a 9mm hole is at one end and the grub screw is proud of the other end by 5mm.

I'll let you know when I get a little further along.

Best,

Doug

 

[John Tolhurst]

Doug, could you dismantle a quick release hub and use the grub screw looking ends of the hollow axle, pressed into the collars?

When I say pressed, I mean I have a mechanics hammer and a piece of railway line here.

 

[rostfrei]

Doug,

Yes, seems tapping a hollow grub/blind screw would do the trick. Can't seem to find any via googling...

Rich

 

[rostfrei]

This may not be the least expensive route to solving the problem, but it'd be a cool one. Doug, I've taken your drawing and modified it a bit to: a) make it one piece, and b) remove excess material. See drawing image below:

Since I don't have any metal manufacturing ability of my own I'm thinking of finding a suitable job-shop, or perhaps with this design, using the services of http://www.shapeways.com. I would have to create the design in a supported 3D solid modeler to submit to them. They can produce in stainless steel via rapid-prototyping at shipped cost of $10 per cm3. My modified design comes in around 3.5 cm3. So $35 per axle flange spacer.
I'm not going to 'pull the trigger yet'; I'll continue looking at other manufacturing options.
Rich

 

[Doug Burton]

Here's another alternative to job-shopping; they provide software to render the drawing and then shop it out for you; you pick the best price/service balance...

http://www.emachineshop.com/

 

[rostfrei]

Doug,

Thanks for the heads-up on emachineshop.

Rich

 

[rostfrei]

Here's an update on my recent modifications to my Freerider V1:

1. After looking at various quotes for getting two axle spacers manufactured I opted to look around for a second 700c rear wheel without a cassette. I found a new Alex DA 22 700c wheel (including Michelin tire & tube) from Bikeisland.com for $69 shipped. I decided to go with this new rear wheel rather than adding axle spacers because I was concerned about whether these axle spacers would have enough 'bite' to hold a 700c front wheel securely in the rear cruzbike dropout, and also there wasn't going to be much if any cost savings.
2. Installed a set of Tektro R556 Long Reach Rd Calipers 55-73mm brakes (also found on bikeisland.com for $45 shipped--I had a set of Shimano 105 brakes but they didn't have a long enough reach so sold them on ebay). Rear brake bridge needed to be drilled out a bit to accept sunken attachment nut.
3. Installed a new Shimano 105 HG70-8 speed 11-28 cassette (found on ebay for $25 shipped).
4. Installed set of Nashbar Prima 2 Plus 700x25 tires. Paid $15 although now I see they're $10.
5. I had a Garmin Forerunner 105 GPS so rather than install a bike computer I built a holder for it out of a piece of PVC pipe, a stainless tee-nut and bolt and some epoxy. Whole thing unscrews from tee-nut, if desired.

My rides are generally fitness runs every other day of a 17 mile loop from my home. So far with several hundred miles on the new 700c wheels and 11-28 cassette I'm very pleased. I never really had a need for the first or second gear in the original mega-range cassette here in flat Florida, and I do like to closer mid-range gear spacing with cassette.

I also have a Trek 1000 road bike. Before these mods, I was, on average in my 17 mile loop, about 1-2 mph faster on the Trek (according the the Garmin GPS). And lately I've been able to match the Trek with the Freerider--having averaged 17.3 mph on each for these rides. Not bad for a much heavier but more comfortable bike.

Here's some photos:

Rich

 

[Doug Burton]

Excellent job, sir.

These bikes fly along very nicely when equipped with 700c wheels and tires. This is a nicely-adapted V1.

Good on ya.

Best,

Doug