Upgrading S40 circa 2019. Need tech advice

[Merczak73]

First off, this is a great community. I rarely am here, but when I am, I learn A LOT! Should come more often. Second: An apology to Robert Holler. I completely forgot about this group and emailed you similar questions. Please forgive?

OK. On to the questions: What version of GXP BB does the 2019 have? Can the freewheel be upgraded to a 12 speed SRAM cassette?

Back story: I have the stock 2019 S40. Learning curve was very steep for me. However, I got the hang of it, and now even get some complements from fellow riders. I've gone 40+ MPH downhill at times, spinning like mad. Regular bikes can't touch that. Still learning the uphill, but that's getting better. However, with the 1x, I'm always searching for the right gear. hard to find some times. I spin out on the downhills and want a bigger gear. I always wanted electronic shifting as well.

Enter SRAM Force AXS. Got a core set (shifters and derailleurs) for a stellar price - cable disc brakes - that's why! I just found cassettes (10-33) and a chain. Now I need cranks (165mm 46-33). Is the GXP BB a good option to stick with? I see that SRAM is pushing DUB BB. Should I switch to that instead? Which BB I use will determine which crankset I will purchase. Parts are hard to find, and I'm thinking I should use what I have. Plus, DUB cranksets in 165mm are rare as hens' teeth! I found one that is made for GXP hub. Was wondering if anyone had any experience/info on the two different hubs.

Also, was not sure if the free hub was ready to accept 12 speeds, or do I need to buy a new free hub assembly? Eventually, I am going to delegate the stock wheels as trainer wheels and use Rolf Prima Vigor wheels as my road wheels.

Thanks for reading! Happy Cruzbiking!

 

[cpml123]

You need XD driver hub for 10 teeth 12 speed cassette. I believe if it is 11 teeth like 11/50 12 speed for Eagle NX then 11 speed Shimano hub still work. However, this is for 1x which maybe different than the 2x you want to build.

 

[cpml123]

Also I don't know if the FD can take 46 33 without some sort of fancy adapter. I had to make mine 52 34 from 50 34 because the chain kept dropping when shifting from 34 to 50.

 

[Merczak73]

Thanks for the reply, cpml123. I did some more research. The learning curve is steep. Looks like the XD freewheel hub accommodates 10 tooth cogs and was developed for mountain bikes, mainly, and is for 10 speeds. the XDR apparently is slightly different in its depth to accommodate 11 cogs in the back for road bikes (cogs are thinner?). So I need an XDR 11 speed freewheel hub. In addition, SRAM AXS has a new way of thinking for shifting. specifically, the chainrings in the front are smaller with 12 cogs in the back giving a wider range of shifting will less jumps in between shifts. I finally found a front SRAM Force AXS crankset 46-33 for GXP system. I went for that. Now to figure out if I have the right freewheel hub already. The saga continues...

 

[cpml123]

Thanks for the reply, cpml123. I did some more research. The learning curve is steep. Looks like the XD freewheel hub accommodates 10 tooth cogs and was developed for mountain bikes, mainly, and is for 10 speeds. the XDR apparently is slightly different in its depth to accommodate 11 cogs in the back for road bikes (cogs are thinner?). So I need an XDR 11 speed freewheel hub. In addition, SRAM AXS has a new way of thinking for shifting. specifically, the chainrings in the front are smaller with 12 cogs in the back giving a wider range of shifting will less jumps in between shifts. I finally found a front SRAM Force AXS crankset 46-33 for GXP system. I went for that. Now to figure out if I have the right freewheel hub already. The saga continues...

The XD and XDR thing still confuses me. Let us know when you get this all set up.

What I also meant to say was that I am not sure if the S40 FD stalk can accommodate the 46 33 chainrings because from what I have experienced, the smallest big ring it can work with is 50. I couldn't even get the 50 to work properly and had to go up to 52. So 46 might be too small unless they have redesigned the FD stalk. You may have to find some kind of adapter to add to the stalk to make it work. My S40 is 2017 model by the way.

 

[cranky cyclist]

The XDR free hub is different with each wheel. I have DT swiss wheels and had to use a DT swiss XDR free hub.

 

[Merczak73]

Thanks CC. Anyone know which hub is used for 2019 S40? No markings on the outside of the hub.

cpml123 - I smacked my forehead when I read your reply. I never thought about the front hanger not being low enough to make shifting work. A quick look shows this: https://wickwerks.com/products/fit-link-adapter/ If I need it, I know it's there for the ordering. Yay! One step closer.

I also found this as well: https://canecreek.com/product/viscoset/ I assume this is the new headset going in the S40s? As long as I'm having all this work done, I thought I might put this in as well. I must admit, I do worry about the front end getting skittish at higher speeds.

 

[cpml123]

Thanks CC. Anyone know which hub is used for 2019 S40? No markings on the outside of the hub.

cpml123 - I smacked my forehead when I read your reply. I never thought about the front hanger not being low enough to make shifting work. A quick look shows this: https://wickwerks.com/products/fit-link-adapter/ If I need it, I know it's there for the ordering. Yay! One step closer.

I also found this as well: https://canecreek.com/product/viscoset/ I assume this is the new headset going in the S40s? As long as I'm having all this work done, I thought I might put this in as well. I must admit, I do worry about the front end getting skittish at higher speeds.

Viscoset... supposedly this is the cheapest. I saved the link in case I want to get it replaced later.
https://www.jensonusa.com/Cane-Creek-Viscoset-Headset
I forget which size you need. It was discussed at other threads.
Michael

 

[Merczak73]

Found the crane creak viscoset reference in the new S40 thread. It's the EC size. Mid, seems to be what Rob Holler recommends. And that Jenson link is loads of cash off MSRP! Awesome. I think I might just go for it.

 

[Merczak73]

More information uncovered! SRAM, in 2019, had its 11 cog system called Hyperglyde. The dish on the wheel is compatible with the 12 cog system of the new AXS group. The freewheel hub needs to be replaced to an XDR freewheel hub. SRAM has an "open source" agreement as to other companies making the XDR hub so that other wheel companies can use the AXS system.

Unfortunately there are no markings on he wheel hub of my 2019 S40 to indicate the manufacturer and I do not have the right tools to take apart the cassette to see if there are markings on the freewheel. Anyone know the manufacturer of a 2019 S40 Freewheel hub?

 

[Robert Holler]

The wheels have hubs made by Chosen in Taiwan. They are some of the smoothest around and used by a lot of manufacturers.

 

[bladderhead]

Hyperglide is Shimano. Unless I am even more confused than I thought I was.

 

[Merczak73]

I see my mistake. The article I read wanted to know if Hyperglide 11 speeds can be used for the 12 speed AXS. I assumed that was a SRAM thing. As mentioned above, it's a shimano thing. Having been out of the game of new tech for so long, I get really confused. Trying to keep up!

 

[Merczak73]

Quick update, for those interested. Parts are tough to find! Holy cow! I finally had to buy individual parts of a crank to get a crankset. Bought the crank arms, spider, chainrings, chainring bolts all separately. Got the GXP hub cranks - to make it as easy a transition. Got 165mm cranks.

Also found a freewheel XDR hub for the Chosen hubs. The only place they exist are in England. So I had to order one from there and have it shipped here. Hope it works. Most everything should be her by midweek next week. Except for the hub. That will be here in July. I will keep y'all informed as to how the build goes.

 

[bladderhead]

Parts are tough to find!

Really? I got Shimano because I could not find Sram. I want short cranks, so I had to get 5-bolt. I think this might be a mistake. The only chainrings which fit 5-bolt are for the original 11speed XX1(Ooo, so old fashioned! Where have you been, daddio?). All the 12sp rings are direct-mount. They say you need a 12sp ring if you have a 12sp chain. I will try my Shimano 12sp chain with a 11sp ring. If it does not work I will have to make do with the Shimano 165mms cranks.[/QUOTE]

 

[Don1]

Sram 12 speed has a different chain specification... Same pitch but different rollers. I think. Seems generic/Shimano 12 speed is same as 11 speed but a smidge thinner and slightly different steel to achieve their durability.....

 

[Merczak73]

Wow. The shortage is really a thing. I have been working these past few weeks to get the parts together. I had to buy the crank arms, crank spider, chainrings and chainring bolts - all separate purchases from separate dealers - to make a crankset. I even ordered a new freewheel hub for my current wheels. From England. That's the only place they have them, right now. Thankfully it cleared customs in New York. It is now stuck in New Jersey. Hopefully here soon! That's the last piece of the puzzle before I go to the shop to have them put it all together. Oh, and I ordered a Thor seat. I realized I was sliding down too much with the stock seat. Not sure on my approach to putting it on. I really don't want to cut the wings, but that may happen. Will keep y'all posted!

 

[Merczak73]

Finally got the last piece from England. That was a freewheel hub of the XDR persuasion. Quick run down. SRAM Force AXS shifters and derailleurs. Force AXS crank set. Rear cassette. Chain. New viscoset headset. Compressionless cable housing for mechanical disk breaks. Thor seat easy gs.

If I get a chance, I’ll take pics of it all and post.

 

[bladderhead]

Who made your hub? Hope?

 

[Merczak73]

Who made your hub? Hope?

Honestly, not sure. I’ll have to look more closely at it. Listing says RSP free hub for chosen. Could not get confirmation that it would fit my hub, but I figured it was worth a try. I’ll post a link in a bit.

Here's a link to an eBay auction for the free hub. Not sure what the black ring is all about. I've watched videos of installing XDR hubs, and see no black ring. I did not get one in my mailing.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304003780454?hash=item46c8098f66:g:neIAAOSwcupgpjHv

I looked Hope free hubs up on the inter webs. Doesn't look like it was from them. Probably some knock off, but it seems to be what I need, given what it looks like. The Chosen rear hubs have something like 150 gear teeth in which the free hub body's flanges can engage with. Making it much better for power transfer - so they say. I find it annoying as I always have a one tooth slip before the free hub engages. Makes for a noisy ride. Eventually I will upgrade the wheel set. Patience and money. That's all it takes.