V20 Build - MBB newbie

[nobrakes]

Hi all,

Thought I would introduce myself - I recognise many of you from BROL, I have the same handle over there too.

I have just ordered a V20 frameset - the end result of much toing and froing over what my 'fast' bike was going to be. I've been riding bents for a little over a year - I have a Nazca Fuego semi-low racer and a Nazca Quetzal tandem, both of which are fantastic bikes for their given use cases. The Fuego is very close to a perfect all rounder and the Quetzal is for spending time with my wife. This is to be my 'Sunday best' bike for going as fast as possible, sportives etc. In the end, my criteria boiled down to 'aero, no heel strike, no chain management fudging and no front wheel / chain interference' which narrowed down the choice pretty substantially. I was sorely tempted by the Schlitter Encore too which ticked all boxes other than heel strike which I really don't like as I have inset knees and my heels tend to sit closer to the tyre than most riders. So here I am taking a big leap into the unknown with a format I have never ridden! Somewhat apprehensive but I will commit to the learning process and do what needs done.

I'm not quite sure what I'm going to put on it yet, I'm not that au fait with what's current in the road biking world, since I haven't ridden or raced a bike with road components for 25 years. My current thinking is that I want to spend decent money on a good set of aero wheels without getting silly about the strength or cost (maybe up to £1000 icluding a PowerTap hub), reasonably decent component set (something like Shimano Ultegra), disc brakes if possible. Every ride I do around my part of Scotland involves hills of 10-15%, so I'd like to keep a decent gear range as well. My Fuego has XT componentry with a wide cassette at the back and a triple at the front. If possible I'd like to keep the bulk of that range - I can pedal from 3-40 mph on that bike. I spend a fair amount of time at both ends of the speed spectrum as there is very little flat ground. I could afford a small amount off the bottom end perhaps as I am getting stronger, but I am surrounded by steep hills! I'm not sure what the V20 will accomodate in terms of triples, cassettes etc.

Other than that, I'm still to decide on the details of what the build will entail, and I was kinda hoping to tap the collective hive mind here for any advice / gotchas / things to watch out for in terms of compatibility of component selection, disc brakes etc. I am totally open to suggestions on what direction to take - any and all advice much appreciated if anybody has any great ideas

Cheers

 

[ratz]

Hi all,
.....
Other than that, I'm still to decide on the details of what the build will entail, and I was kinda hoping to tap the collective hive mind here for any advice / gotchas / things to watch out for in terms of compatibility of component selection, disc brakes etc. I am totally open to suggestions on what direction to take - any and all advice much appreciated if anybody has any great ideas

Cheers

Welcome to the Tribe check out the V20 build diary in my signature to get some component refreshers and then bring your questions and we can give more guidance and ideas.

 

[nobrakes]

Thanks ratz, I'll give that thread a good read and try to get my questions organised coherently.

Cheers

 

[nobrakes]

Hi again Ratz, that's a great thread you've put together there, amazing detail and info! It's really kind of you to put that kind of level of detail up on the net for others to utilise.

I had a couple of basic questions that will affect the build before I dig deeper into choices -

Disc brakes - I've haven't been able to find out much about what is compatible with the V20 other than a thread by Jason in which it sounds like quite a few disc / caliper combinations don't quite fit the frame or interfere with the spokes. My preference for braking would be hydraulic disc brakes but if I'm buying untested I'd go for something else if it wasn't guaranteed to work. Do you know if there are combos that will definitely fit the frame? I guess I need to make a decision on this or rim brakes before I choose the wheelset.

I'm curious as to where rim brakes are at these days too, last rim brakes I used were V Brakes on my Rockhopper which had plenty stopping power but I was seduced by the lack of maintenance and wet weather performance of discs many years ago. Are carbon rims poorer stopping than aluminium?

Bottom bracket - what size and type does the frame take? This is one area where I plead ignorance having never needed to install a BB so I don't know what I should be looking for. Most other bits I generally have enough info to make me a little dangerous

Cheers
David

 

[nobrakes]

One other thing I forgot to add - will the frame take a triple chainring if I went down that route? I think some of the more demanding hills might have me mashing around 50RPM to get up them on a double.

 

[Robert O]

Regarding your disc brake question, I'm running 160mm front/140mm rear rotors, with no interference problems on a 2015 vintage V20 frame. I've got TRP Spyres with generic flat mount to post mount adapters. I switched over from FSA SL-K caliper brakes a couple of months ago, they worked fine in both the upper and lower brake mounts. Welcome to our world!

 

[ratz]

Bottom bracket - what size and type does the frame take? This is one area where I plead ignorance having never needed to install a BB so I don't know what I should be looking for. Most other bits I generally have enough info to make me a little dangerous

BSA68, Threaded English. Mostly external bearing cups.

Square taper if you can get the new chainstays that we used on RAAM. I believe they are going to be standard issue on the new v20 but I do not have confirmation on that; nor if the new additional size are avaialble. Someone that's built an S40 should comment as they share the same chainstay.

 

[ratz]

One other thing I forgot to add - will the frame take a triple chainring if I went down that route? I think some of the more demanding hills might have me mashing around 50RPM to get up them on a double.

That's a challenge; The Crew road all of RAAM on a 50/34 x 11x32 combination. You should have no problem fitting any of the 50x34 - 11x40 combos if needed. Rear derailleur selection will be your biggest obstacle to get correct as mixing MTB and road Derailleurs is getting harder. We do have some thread about that. Triple is doable just requires planning and a willingness to send back to amazon or the bike shop parts that didn't fit if you error. The new Chainstay should make this much much easier as you could use a lower performance but more flexible square taper bb. Several people here ahve done it; if they don't chime in with links we can help you find the threads.

 

[ratz]

Disc brakes - I've haven't been able to find out much about what is compatible with the V20 other than a thread by Jason in which it sounds like quite a few disc / caliper combinations don't quite fit the frame or interfere with the spokes. My preference for braking would be hydraulic disc brakes but if I'm buying untested I'd go for something else if it wasn't guaranteed to work. Do you know if there are combos that will definitely fit the frame? I guess I need to make a decision on this or rim brakes before I choose the wheelset.

TRP Sprye, TRP RD/HY, and SRAM Red Hydralic all known to work; getthing the right adapter is key, learning to install the offset is a must and on rare occasions if you have a larger than normal weld on the frame some minor but normal filing; (aluminum welds sometime aren't as small as they should be)

 

[nobrakes]

Wow, my head is buzzing already Thanks for all the info both of you. Seems like every question leads to another two or three. It's been a long time since I looked at any of this kind of stuff.

Using the trusty Sheldon Brown gear calculator, I can probably cope with a double and wider range cassette, just. The SRAM Wifli stuff looked good but the really wide range cassette only appears to be compatible with the 1X system which isn't really what I want, unless I've misunderstood that bit. 32T seemed the biggest you can go. I plan on increasing my power anyway - haven't been training seriously for very long and FTP is well below where I think I can get it to, so I should be a bit more comfortable on the hills with a few more months on the trainer. I can take 20% gradients on the Fuego but that bike can spin decently at 4 mph.

In terms of the chainstay, I ordered the new 2018 frameset - got in early and got the $400 off which took a bit of pain out of the brutal exchange rate. I'm not sure what the new chainstay gives that is different from the existing one though? Or whether the frameset will come with it. Does it require a different BB? If so I guess that's something else to bottom out with Cruzbike before buying.

Discs sound hopeful (thanks for the examples Robert and ratz), although my brief research tonight appeared to open up another minefield of compatibility on hydraulic components, brifters etc. I need to start making a list of everything that needs clarified and working through it systematically. The Spyre mechanicals sound a lot simpler and more flexible in terms of brifter choice - are they fairly decent in operation and ease of setup?

I'm still open to rim brakes if people can recommend good models that have decent stopping power in the wet, I just don't know enough about them to make anything other than a wild guess and so tend towards discs by default. This will need to be decided before I splash out on wheels.

Now I'm getting over the shock of how much money I'm going to spend on this dream machine and knowing it's my last splurge for many years, I'm really looking forward to getting this build done! Exciting stuff. I promised the wife a decent DF bike too with whatever I have left. I have recumbentalized her partially with the tandem but she resists a solo bent......

Cheers
David

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Using the trusty Sheldon Brown gear calculator, I can probably cope with a double and wider range cassette, just. The SRAM Wifli stuff looked good but the really wide range cassette only appears to be compatible with the 1X system which isn't really what I want, unless I've misunderstood that bit. 32T seemed the biggest you can go. I plan on increasing my power anyway - haven't been training seriously for very long and FTP is well below where I think I can get it to, so I should be a bit more comfortable on the hills with a few more months on the trainer. I can take 20% gradients on the Fuego but that bike can spin decently at 4 mph.

David, you can go with an extreme wide geared double now. Lots of new stuff on the market now.

I live in Northern California with lots of hill.mountains. My V2 is set up with 11 speed SRAM gearing. Double compact 52t x 34t with shortened crank arms, Force double tap shifters, Shimano 11-42 cassette (there are now lots of after market extreme wide geared cassettes available all the way up to 50t), and SRAM Via GT long cage RD ( it's an older CX RD) but any non 11 speed SRAM RD should work, like the 10 speed GX, X9, etc. With this setup my low is about 20 gear inches, which gets me up most of the hills here. Good luck.

 

[Bill K]

I have disc brakes on my V20. I had spoke interference using the TRP HY/RD caliper with a SON dynohub and a 140mm rotor.
I fixed it by switching to a 160mm rotor. As I remember, Rojo had a similar issue and fixed it by re-dishing the wheel.
Also, I recently switched from the HY/RD caliper to Yokozuno Motoko calipers which are thinner and do not have spoke interference when using a 140mm rotor. Both of these calipers are hybrid: hydraulic caliper and cable actuated.
I have never heard of spoke interference when using a 160mm rotor, only with the 140mm rotor.

I'm using 52/36 chainrings and 11-42 cassette with DI2 road components.
I'm using a WolfTooth RoadLink to extend the max tooth capacity of the derailleur.

 

[nobrakes]

learning to install the offset is a must

I'm not sure what this refers to - you need to treat me as a dimwit in this context!

 

[nobrakes]

David, you can go with an extreme wide geared double now. Lots of new stuff on the market now.

I live in Northern California with lots of hill.mountains. My V2 is set up with 11 speed SRAM gearing. Double compact 52t x 34t with shortened crank arms, Force double tap shifters, Shimano 11-42 cassette (there are now lots of after market extreme wide geared cassettes available all the way up to 50t), and SRAM Via GT long cage RD ( it's an older CX RD) but any non 11 speed SRAM RD should work, like the 10 speed GX, X9, etc. With this setup my low is about 20 gear inches, which gets me up most of the hills here. Good luck.

Thanks Rick. So a long cage 10 speed derailleur will work fine with an 11 speed wide range cassette and 11 speed brifters? 20 gear inches is pretty much what my Fuego bottom end is too. If that can be matched I will be delighted.

Cheers
David

 

[ratz]

I'm not sure what this refers to - you need to treat me as a dimwit in this context!

Setting up Disk Brakes means you have to get them close; the loosen the entire mounting and squeeze them and then screw them into place. In my travels I've notice that people think there is a correct position for the entire brake assembly and then it never moves. Align disc brakes requires first adjusting the postion of the brake assembly and then fine adjusting the pad offset. Most people seem to think it's just abou the pad offset; or forget to put the pad offset to neutral postion before adjust the location of the brake itself. Once you get it , it's obvious but most fail to understand it.

 

[ratz]

For the wide range cassettes this is the info you need about what works with what.
http://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/sram-brifters-rear-d-etc.11166/

 

[nobrakes]

Ah, now I get the offset thing. I do this already, just didn't give it a name. Thanks for the cassette info and to you Bill for your info.

 

[nobrakes]

OK, I think I have my component set pinned down. First draft anyway - Mainly Sram Force 22 with a 10 speed derailleur and wide range Shimano cassette. Also hybrid discs with 160mm rotors. Can anybody see any issues with any of this? It's a zipped XLS spreadsheet. Only thing missing is the adaptors for the calipers, what did you use for those Bill?

Once again, thanks to all for helping me put this together, I'm really grateful for all the help. Thanks also to Rick for helping me offline with some component advice when I ran out of posting quota for the day!

Still have wheels to choose. But if I pin down to either discs or rims that should be relatively straightforward (as in if I see a decent pair in a sale at reduced price....)

Cheers
David

 

[Bruce B]

My Vendetta required 124 links of chain (including 2 Quick Links) over 50-36 chainwheels and a 11-32 cassette so plan accordingly.

 

[nobrakes]

I'll take that on board Bruce, thanks. Extra chain.