V20 for "everyday" riding?

bladderhead

Zen MBB Master
Frito Bandito said:
you gotta let the roadies pass you on the hills
Reading this and the other posts makes me happy. I do not mean to be nasty to anyone. I replaced my Silvio with a S40, I cannot remember why. About the same time, I started taking medicine that almost completely suppresses the symptoms of my COPD. Full of hope, I attacked the nearest mountain. Imagine my disappointment. Those lycra louts still outclimb me. At least I am not the only one.
 
I think the V20 is good for short power climbs. You can often carry more momentum than a DF into the base, and if you stay on the power, you can do short climbs up to maybe 1-2 minutes as quick as a DF.... but once you have to settle in and find a threshold power you can do for 3+ minutes, you will be going slower than a DF unless the climb is not that steep and aero starts to help. The longer the climb, the more time you lose to the DF. Of course you can make it back on the descents..... but most of the climbs I have done that are longer and slower, are also technical, so descending them cannot be done by simply rolling at max speed... so usually on these descents I would be faster on the DF also which is more nimble through technical corners. The V20 is very fast through corners if you have good visibility and can commit to your line in advance.... but on technical descents where you cannot see what is coming the other way, the DF is much more adept at changing your line mid corner if you need to.... so you can generally carry more speed into a corner knowing you have some wiggle room if you need it.

For me, the V20 is king on flat roads and rolling hills. You can take it up and down proper hills, but don't expect to compete with the DFs there.
 

Mr Ben Sherratt

New Member
Has anyone ever tried an S40 fork on a V20? I think this would go someway too giving a fast all-round bike. I would love to ride the country lanes around where I live in England on my V20, however the road surface is so bad I feel that wider 650 B tires would be the answer, unfortunately the clearance on the V 20 fork is not enough, an S40 fork on my V20 would be perfect as I can then have large volume fast tires back and front… I tentatively asked CB whether this would be possible but was told it is not compatible. Not sure why? If the length is not much different, I am sure the there is enough of a margin for change in geometry to work. Having played around with Bikes all my life as a bike mechanic I’m sure there is a workaround solution. I previously modified a Challenge jester to be compatible with 26 inch front/700 C rear wheels, up from 20 inch front/26 inch rear and it worked a treat!
I’ve even considered having a fork fabricated in the UK but this would be costly.
 

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Mr Ben Sherratt

New Member
I've thought about this. I like how the S40's wider fork allows for wider tires, making it more suitable for rough roads and trails. I haven't tried to swap my S40 fork onto my V20, but I bet it would work. BTW, when I first set up my V20 I used 650b. Up front you can fit up to 38 mm but there's some rubbing under power & braking. https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/max-tire-size-650b.11622/
What sort of clearance do you have on the s40, how much longer is the fork? Thank you
 
What sort of clearance do you have on the s40, how much longer is the fork? Thank you
On my 2020 S40, there’s plenty. Shown here with 38 mm GravelKings.
As an aside, I’ve been using 700c x 30 mm tires in tubeless configuration on my V20 for a few years now. It’s served me well except for a couple side wall cuts from 1) a sharp rock on a rail-trail, 2) a long screw, 3) a walnut.
 

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3bs

whereabouts unknown
as a BFOG, the q45 or older versions are the best commuters for anything surfaces. i ride my sofrider even in the winter with studded tires.
for goofing off and total urban stop and go campus riding and the like, my t50 with 406 wheels is a the modern equivalent of a Schwinn sting ray with gears. if you want to go faster, s40 with 40's on it such as schwalbe g one all arounds and a rear rack. but that gives up 3mph to the v20 with 30 g one speeds
 

Rogerreece

Member
I got my S40 2 years ago and immediately it became my favorite bike. Last year I bought a second S40 and electrified it. It's been great having the choice. I have put well over 1000 miles on each bike. But I kept thinking about the V20. I was afraid it wouldn't be as good as the S40 for daily riding where you have to maneuver around people and sometimes go 3 mph without putting your feet on the ground. I was also wary of how it would be on hills, which are everywhere here in Atlanta.

But earlier this year I pulled the trigger and bought a V20 in spite of my concerns. I couldn't be happier with my new favorite bike. I had read the posts in this thread, and I just wasn't sure. I'm really glad I made the leap. I haven't found any kind of riding where I feel the S40 is better than the V20. I'm really comfortable with the seat angle and everything about the bike.

All that being said, I'm riding one of my S40s today because both are great bikes and I like the variety. I'm writing this to anyone who is considering a V20 but sees it more as a racing bike than an every day bike. If I could only keep one bike, there's no question. It would be the V20.
 

Henri

scatter brain
I've got my V20c for few months now and have ridden about 500km (310miles). My riding is mostly of the "everyday" variety as in I go places and I can't just collapse in exhaustion when I am there. For me speed and efficiency are important for every kind of riding. (More exhaustion would only be wanted for explicit training porposes and I don't do that.)

One thing that's missing for me for now is capability for really slow riding. I was in a crowd at a Critical Mass and when it got really slow, I needed a lot of space or to put my feet down and "walk". (Sitting in the middle of the back rest that is comparatively easy, comfortable and effective, though!) This problem will pribably shrink with excercise. In a pedestrian crown "Flintstoning" is very suitable.

Hard hitting bumps can be a problem, so some cycle paths or pedestrian paths where bicycles are allowed ans lowkey expected to ride should be avoided. I am looking forward to seeing how a 650b wheelset with as much tire beef as possible will improve this. (Are there more capable seat cushions? Is the Ventisit better suited?)

The slick and thin road tires are obviously terrible on loose ground. That caused my first (and for now only) fall. A good route to the nearest big city hat a segment that I can just bary ride at 15km/h (9mph). Tire choice, especially going for 650b, should improve this situation a lot. Hard packed dirt is no problem, though, as long as the bumpyness is okay. (Have not tried it a lot, yet, but speed/efficiency might be reduced significantly on hard packed with stock tires.)

Carrying ability depends. I have Radical Design bags Banana L. Instead if throwing them over the seat, I put the straps between Frame and seat, so reduce swaying and improve aerodynamics. As they are made for bikes with (steeper seats and) racks, they don't sut quite right and I should add something to keep them from touching the tire. But they hold a lot of cargo and the bike rides well. I rather want a tail box though and a bag unter the frame, between the wheels for aerodynamic reasons and to just throw stuff in the box like on my other bike. - Maybe with a way to still attach the bags when I need maximum capacity for extreme shopping trips.

Vision and visibility don't seem worse than on my other recumbent.

On the open road the Alpha 7 velomobile is faster, but in the city and back roads with more tight corners the V20c can take the corners better and beeds way less effort to reaccelerate after corners and stops like traffic lights or for uphills. (Open road speed might see some improvements with aero eheels, tail box, better setup for my body proportions and more training. Velomobile is not the fastes model though, a Milan SL or Bülk would extend the lead.)

The compact recumbent with full suspension and wider tires is less limited inspite the 20" wheels. I only needed to get off it on one extreme inclination. (Got up the next time I tried.) It is not a slow bike comoared to a conventional city bike, but compared to the V20c I don't want to use is for more than a few kilometers anymore, unless I foresee bad roads and paths for a big portion of it. I now use it in my town only because the things I transport daily really push the Banana bags onto the rear tire and I need a support bracket for that.

Taking the train with a velomobile is out of the question (unless I really have to try it in an emergency), so even for fairly far destinatios the V20c can have the leg up, if I am not certain I would return early enough. It's a bit of a toss-up, though. Sometimes withbthe velomobile I could ride home in time, but If I miss judge, I can justbtake the train with the V20c. In the other hand if I miss the last train or there is no space for a bike* I'd be home sooner with the velomobile.

*) In Germany right now we have three months of regional public transit for very cheap. Often the trains are extremely full and even just people without luggage might not fit in anymore. A folding bike or another bike that can be put in overhead compartments (a lowracer) has best chances to still fit in. Also a folding bike does not require an extra fee. So for riding the trains a V20 might bot be ideal. But it always worked for my for now.


So yeah, depending on what your everyday looks like, I think the V20 may be a nice, fast and fun way of tackling it - be it with some changed or added parts.


Oh and compared with the velomobile it's way less hassle! Easy to get out of the basement, easy to lift and carry just holding the handle bar, can turn on the spot by putting your feet down and lifting via the handlebars, easy to push while walking. Can even shift in standstill: One foot down, pull rear brake, push and pull back and up, shift, rotate with the other foot (system pedal required of course). Only a kickstand is missing. :D
 
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Rogerreece

Member
Have you tried the same road with an S40? I'm curious as to what difference you have experienced. I have a Sofrider that I use for gravel and bad roads, where neither the V20 nor the S40 rides well.
 

cpml123

Zen MBB Master
Have you tried the same road with an S40? I'm curious as to what difference you have experienced. I have a Sofrider that I use for gravel and bad roads, where neither the V20 nor the S40 rides well.
Not exactly the same road. On other chip sealed road, S40 is better. On gravel or paved trails with tree roots, S40 is no good, I agree.
 

Dryday

New Member
Thank you for letting me know, unfortunately I don't travel and I am in South London, near Kingston upon Thames, if you ever around here, get in touch, I will buy you some beers and chat about Cruzbike. :)
 

Mrnelson

Member
I think the V20 is good for short power climbs. You can often carry more momentum than a DF into the base, and if you stay on the power, you can do short climbs up to maybe 1-2 minutes as quick as a DF.... but once you have to settle in and find a threshold power you can do for 3+ minutes, you will be going slower than a DF unless the climb is not that steep and aero starts to help. The longer the climb, the more time you lose to the DF. Of course you can make it back on the descents..... but most of the climbs I have done that are longer and slower, are also technical, so descending them cannot be done by simply rolling at max speed... so usually on these descents I would be faster on the DF also which is more nimble through technical corners. The V20 is very fast through corners if you have good visibility and can commit to your line in advance.... but on technical descents where you cannot see what is coming the other way, the DF is much more adept at changing your line mid corner if you need to.... so you can generally carry more speed into a corner knowing you have some wiggle room if you need it.

For me, the V20 is king on flat roads and rolling hills. You can take it up and down proper hills, but don't expect to compete with the DFs there.
While I haven't ridden a diamond frame in 30 years (too much pain and numbness to even attempt it again) I have to concur: the V20 is going to lose out on longer, steeper climbs. Happily for me I live in the land of rollers and relatively gentle climbs and in this the V20 absolutely excels. And the margin is not small either. It is an extremely fast bike if you put a little bit of time and thought into making it a bit more aero. Light carbon wheels and fairings have made an appreciable difference for me. I'm a strong rider but I'm tall and heavy so hills are slower for me but on flats and rollers I can absolutely crush my club rider friends (not a boast, just physics!)
I ride pretty much anywhere without fear: in town, in traffic, on busy bike paths, but I would be hesitant to do a steep technical run down a sharp grade. Have not tried it, but I imagine it'd be tough with sight lines and the different steering input of the v20.
 
While I haven't ridden a diamond frame in 30 years (too much pain and numbness to even attempt it again) I have to concur: the V20 is going to lose out on longer, steeper climbs. Happily for me I live in the land of rollers and relatively gentle climbs and in this the V20 absolutely excels. And the margin is not small either. It is an extremely fast bike if you put a little bit of time and thought into making it a bit more aero. Light carbon wheels and fairings have made an appreciable difference for me. I'm a strong rider but I'm tall and heavy so hills are slower for me but on flats and rollers I can absolutely crush my club rider friends (not a boast, just physics!)
I ride pretty much anywhere without fear: in town, in traffic, on busy bike paths, but I would be hesitant to do a steep technical run down a sharp grade. Have not tried it, but I imagine it'd be tough with sight lines and the different steering input of the v20.
Nice post!

I'm interested in the aero upgrades you have done on your V20? I have done the usual on mine (wheels, low/narrow bars, tail box), but curious about the fairings you mention and the benefits you have found from them. You may have posted elsewhere on this forum and I may have missed it, so just point me at that if it is elsewhere!
 

Mrnelson

Member
Nice post!

I'm interested in the aero upgrades you have done on your V20? I have done the usual on mine (wheels, low/narrow bars, tail box), but curious about the fairings you mention and the benefits you have found from them. You may have posted elsewhere on this forum and I may have missed it, so just point me at that if it is elsewhere!
Blame my unclear writing: I just meant that I have wheel fairings on both wheels. I have no data to prove it but if you like anecdotes, I believe I'm faster. ;)
 

3bs

whereabouts unknown
@Henri an alpha 7? Sweet. I dont have a modern proper velo but maybe someday.

On the hillclimb thing, the only place I really get spanked is steep and supersteep.
Long climbs that are not steep the v does great. Rolling hills the v does great.
Short steep where i am punching for only a few minutes i can do, but long or wheel-slip angles just suck on the v and the s40.
 
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