v20 Parts Recommendations Wheels / Brakes

cruzKurt

Guru
I am building a v20 from frame up. I have ordered a crankset and have all the boom and stuff that is unique to Cruzbike. I don't have brakes or wheels yet. I intend on using a 11 speed SRAM cassette similar to my other v20. I have a SRAM etap rim brake groupset I intend on using. So I need a reasonably priced set of wheels that will take an SRAM cassette and also some brakes. I am also not 100% sure I understand wheel sizing. I think I am looking for a 100 mm front wheel and a 130 mm rear wheel. But I don't understand why some say 130-135mm.

Looking for suggestions. thanks
 
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chicorider

Zen MBB Master
Yes, the rear spacing is 100mm. That part is easy. For the front (of a Cruzbike), there was a time when frame and hub manufacturers were dithering between the traditional 130mm spacing that worked for so long, and the "newer" (but now quite old and vanishing) 135mm spacing that came along around the time Shimano started squeezing more cogs into their cassettes (back when they went to 9-speed). Cruzbike was clever in that they set their fork at 132.5mm, meaning that either 130 or 135mm will work. The fork will squeeze in a tiny bit for 130mm hubs, and flex outward a tiny bit for 135mm.

I don't know what your wheel budget is, but wheels are worth a bit of splurging. Next to the frame/fork, wheels will have a lot to do with how a bike rides and what its capabilities will be (there is a reason why touring bikes have heavier, more robust, higher spoke-count wheels, while those who want to go fast use lighter weight, but less robust, lower spoke-count wheels). Wheels really should fit the purpose of the bike and the intentions of the rider.

I build my own wheels so that I can ride precisely what fits my intentions. I have four bikes--two road, two off-road--and each is rolling on wheels built for that bike's purpose. I said a moment ago that wheels are worth splurging on, but you can easily fall into the boutique part trap. Chris King hubs, for example, are really nice. But for a fraction of the cost, Bitex hubs are quite good too. Some people might go, "Oooh, Chris King!" while nobody will go, "Oooh, Bitex." But they weigh about the same, both roll well, and both have reputations for durability. Unlike Chris King, Bitex has been making hubs for other brands for decades. To me, that speaks well of them, even though they lack the bling-factor. I built up a set of wheels for a friend a couple years ago. We were all set to use a $200.00 pair of lime green Bitex hubs. But at the last minute, she decided she wanted the bling, so she plunked down $600.00 for I9 hubs, which were only available in black, not the lime green that she wanted. I didn't balk. It's her money, and if that makes here happy, that's all that matters. The wheels built up fine, but the rear hub, with its complicated (and REALLY loud) engagement system has been a little fiddly and temperamental. Meanwhile, I built for myself a nearly identical wheelset, but around those low-bling $200.00 Bitext hubs, and they have been bombproof.

Having said that, I will pay extra for Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes for V20 wheels. Lighter weight, higher strength, more aero--but also more expensive. Since my V20 and S30 wheels are lower spoke-count to keep weight and drag down, I am willing to pay a little more for spokes that will do that while also being strong. Some might say that other spoke brands, like DT Swiss and Pillar offer that too, which might be true, but I don't want to put that to the test at 45mph on a twisty downhill.

But for rims, I have been using Light Bicycle carbon rims for years now with great success, both on my bikes and for a few of my friends. I was initially drawn to them by their lower prices, but have since concluded that the quality is there too. Light Bicycle rims are a lot like Bitex hubs--really good bang for the buck.

I have not written all this to try to convince you to build your own wheels, but Light Bicycle does build wheelsets too. I just built up two killer sets of wheels, both using 46mm carbon caliper brake rims, Bitex hubs, and CX-Ray spokes. The only difference is that one set uses the "Standard" weight rim, while the other uses the "Flyweight" rim (heavier riders, or those who ride bikes like bulldozers should go "Standard," while lighter weight riders who have a sense of finesse can get away with "Flyweight." At 130lbs. myself, I went flyweight for both my V20c and my gravel bike. So far, so good). $860 for the "Standard" set, and $885 for the "Flyweight" set. You can also order these rims either with or without spoke access holes. I go without access holes because it creates a solid rim bed--no more dealing with tubeless rim tape to run tubeless tires. I don't miss that yellow tape at all.

Their wheel builder is fun to play with. You can dial up what you want, and they'll build it. One catch, however, is the wait time. They say "3 to 5 weeks" until shipping, and then shipping time itself. You are probably in for about a six week wait. For me, the wait is worth it because I will end up with the wheels I want, but it is still a wait, for sure.

Anyway, I did not plan to write all this, but I hope offers some perspective. Most people have at least one subject that they nerd-out over; wheel building is one of mine.

 

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Bruce B

Well-Known Member
"I have a SRAM etap rim brake groupset I intend on using."

Please check the V20c specs. The third item under Compatibility Notes, calls for flat mount disc brakes.
 

Rsnoeyink

Member
Yes, the rear spacing is 100mm. That part is easy. For the front (of a Cruzbike), there was a time when frame and hub manufacturers were dithering between the traditional 130mm spacing that worked for so long, and the "newer" (but now quite old and vanishing) 135mm spacing that came along around the time Shimano started squeezing more cogs into their cassettes (back when they went to 9-speed). Cruzbike was clever in that they set their fork at 132.5mm, meaning that either 130 or 135mm will work. The fork will squeeze in a tiny bit for 130mm hubs, and flex outward a tiny bit for 135mm.

I don't know what your wheel budget is, but wheels are worth a bit of splurging. Next to the frame/fork, wheels will have a lot to do with how a bike rides and what its capabilities will be (there is a reason why touring bikes have heavier, more robust, higher spoke-count wheels, while those who want to go fast use lighter weight, but less robust, lower spoke-count wheels). Wheels really should fit the purpose of the bike and the intentions of the rider.

I build my own wheels so that I can ride precisely what fits my intentions. I have four bikes--two road, two off-road--and each is rolling on wheels built for that bike's purpose. I said a moment ago that wheels are worth splurging on, but you can easily fall into the boutique part trap. Chris King hubs, for example, are really nice. But for a fraction of the cost, Bitex hubs are quite good too. Some people might go, "Oooh, Chris King!" while nobody will go, "Oooh, Bitex." But they weigh about the same, both roll well, and both have reputations for durability. Unlike Chris King, Bitex has been making hubs for other brands for decades. To me, that speaks well of them, even though they lack the bling-factor. I built up a set of wheels for a friend a couple years ago. We were all set to use a $200.00 pair of lime green Bitex hubs. But at the last minute, she decided she wanted the bling, so she plunked down $600.00 for I9 hubs, which were only available in black, not the lime green that she wanted. I didn't balk. It's her money, and if that makes here happy, that's all that matters. The wheels built up fine, but the rear hub, with its complicated (and REALLY loud) engagement system has been a little fiddly and temperamental. Meanwhile, I built for myself a nearly identical wheelset, but around those low-bling $200.00 Bitext hubs, and they have been bombproof.

Having said that, I will pay extra for Sapim CX-Ray bladed spokes for V20 wheels. Lighter weight, higher strength, more aero--but also more expensive. Since my V20 and S30 wheels are lower spoke-count to keep weight and drag down, I am willing to pay a little more for spokes that will do that while also being strong. Some might say that other spoke brands, like DT Swiss and Pillar offer that too, which might be true, but I don't want to put that to the test at 45mph on a twisty downhill.

But for rims, I have been using Light Bicycle carbon rims for years now with great success, both on my bikes and for a few of my friends. I was initially drawn to them by their lower prices, but have since concluded that the quality is there too. Light Bicycle rims are a lot like Bitex hubs--really good bang for the buck.

I have not written all this to try to convince you to build your own wheels, but Light Bicycle does build wheelsets too. I just built up two killer sets of wheels, both using 46mm carbon caliper brake rims, Bitex hubs, and CX-Ray spokes. The only difference is that one set uses the "Standard" weight rim, while the other uses the "Flyweight" rim (heavier riders, or those who ride bikes like bulldozers should go "Standard," while lighter weight riders who have a sense of finesse can get away with "Flyweight." At 130lbs. myself, I went flyweight for both my V20c and my gravel bike. So far, so good). $860 for the "Standard" set, and $885 for the "Flyweight" set. You can also order these rims either with or without spoke access holes. I go without access holes because it creates a solid rim bed--no more dealing with tubeless rim tape to run tubeless tires. I don't miss that yellow tape at all.

Their wheel builder is fun to play with. You can dial up what you want, and they'll build it. One catch, however, is the wait time. They say "3 to 5 weeks" until shipping, and then shipping time itself. You are probably in for about a six week wait. For me, the wait is worth it because I will end up with the wheels I want, but it is still a wait, for sure.

Anyway, I did not plan to write all this, but I hope offers some perspective. Most people have at least one subject that they nerd-out over; wheel building is one of mine.

I'm looking for some wheels for my older v20. I noticed on the Lightbicycle site that you can add an extra layer of carbon to the rim for such things as extreme riding conditions, E-bikes, tandems, and wheelchairs. I'm wondering if this might be a good idea for the front drive wheel of the v20, given its extra weight compared to a diamond frame bike. What do you think?
 

chicorider

Zen MBB Master
One thing I like about Light Bicycle is that they will make you just about what you want (as along as you are willing to wait 6-7 weeks).

When I built my V20 up seven years ago, I started with aluminum rims. It didn't take me long to trash three aluminum front rims. Much of that was pilot error, me plowing into things--mostly uneven road joints--at full speed. As you know, you cannot really unweight or hop on these bikes. My ride technique is much better now.

Anyway, those three dented aluminum rims sent me to carbon, which I had been avoiding because of the cost. I did not build that first set myself because I was afraid that my building skills were not good enough to take on carbon rims. So I had ProWheelBuilder build me up a set using standard weight NOX rims. Two long stories short: first, over the six years that I rode those NOX wheels, not only did they hold up to the abuse, but they never even needed to visit the truing stand. Not once. And second, when I did work up the nerve to build my first set of carbon wheels, I discovered that they are even easier to build with than aluminum. No more aluminum for me.

For the wheels that I recently built for my V20c, I went the other way from your question, ordering Light Bicycle's Falcon Pro AR465d rims in the lighter "flyweight" build--less carbon layering, not more. But here was my thinking: 1. I weigh 130 pounds. I can probably get away with it. 2. My V piloting skills are much better than they were at first. I still hit minor road debris on occasion, but not like I used to. 3. At 47mm depth, these rims should have more structural fortitude than rims half their height. And 4. These rims are of the current wider design, and I'm running wider 30mm tubeless tires, allowing me to run lower pressures (but not too low!), creating more tire compliance and less rim abuse. I have a little over 1000 miles on them so far, and they've been great. This bike, on these wheels, is running a bit faster and smoother than my old V20 did on those NOX wheels running 25mm tubeless tires. And I was more than happy with that setup.

So for your question, run through a similar line of thought, taking body weight, riding style, rim selection, and tire selection into account. Having LB add a layer of carbon will give you two things: a slightly heavier wheel, and greater peace of mind. To be honest, you may never notice those few extra grams. The studies that I have read collectively suggest that wheel weight matters more when climbing, and even then, a rider might notice the difference only on steeper grades. In theory, or on paper, my "flyweight" wheels might spin up from a dead stop a tiny bit faster, and they might climb 10%+ grades a teeny bit easier. But in real-world riding, my performance would probably be about the same had I gone with the standard weight, or even heavier duty options. My choosing "flyweight" was largely psychological; they make me feel faster, even if they don't make me actually faster. When I pull the wheel off the bike, I think, "wow, that's a light wheel! Cool." It's kind of dumb, but I own it. And besides, I figured that if the flyweight rim ends up not being quite robust enough as a V20c front wheel for the long haul, I can replace it with the standard weight rim easily enough.

Going with a slightly heavier duty rim is perhaps also largely psychological. But for riders who value peace of mind instead of seeing what they can get away with, that would be a good move, for similar reasons.
 
Just a note to say to consider the Yoeleo wheels. I have there C88 wheels on my V28 (rim brakes). I ise them with GP5K-TL 25 mm tyres and they are fast. I achieve good CdA with them. If you are after speed, they are worth a look. They are also well priced. They have other rim depths if you want something more general.
 

cruzKurt

Guru
One thing I like about Light Bicycle is that they will make you just about what you want (as along as you are willing to wait 6-7 weeks).

.....
@chicorider can I ask where you get routine parts like spoke nipples and spokes? I am going to have a go at repairing my damaged v20 wheel. I found a used truing stand and need some spokes and such.
 

cruzKurt

Guru
Just a note to say to consider the Yoeleo wheels. I have there C88 wheels on my V28 (rim brakes). I ise them with GP5K-TL 25 mm tyres and they are fast. I achieve good CdA with them. If you are after speed, they are worth a look. They are also well priced. They have other rim depths if you want something more general.
How do you measure your CdA?
 
How do you measure your CdA?
Accurate CdA is calculated using a wind tunnel to determine rearward force when faced with a known wind. People estimate CdA using the Chung method, an aeropod, or mywindsock.com. Assumptions of rolling resistance and terrain are made, but you should have a good tool to determine if a particular set-up is faster than another. But I find the values mywindsock reports vary quite a bit on a given loop even with identical configurations.

 

chicorider

Zen MBB Master
@vosadrian I've heard plenty of good stuff about Yoeleo as well. I've never ridden their wheels, but the reviews are good.

@cruzKurt If I know what spoke I'm looking for (DT Swiss Competition, 14/15/14 gauge, or, Sapim Race, for example), I start Googling or eBaying, looking for the best price from those who have the length I need in stock. Same for nipples. I tend to stick with DT Swiss aluminum in silver, 12 or 14mm lengths. Sapim aluminum nipples are fine too. Google or eBay it, buy from the best deal (though with eBay, make sure that the seller is legit).

Having said that, my go-to place lately has been BikeHubStore.com. Selection and prices are usually at least pretty good, and their service is great. I buy all my hubs from them when I build wheels, and at least half the time I buy spokes and nipples from them too.

ProWheelBuilder.com and WheelBuilder.com will also have what you need, but their prices are often a little bit higher. If I'm buying a full set of 48 Sapim CX-Ray spokes, I will definitely shop around. But if I need just a few spokes and nipples for a repair, then price differences between different shops are fairly negligible.



 
How do you measure your CdA?

I use myWindSock. It can vary a bit with conditions (as can any simulation method), but if you go out in similar conditions, you get a good idea. If you use it for every ride, you see trends and can see when you have improved CdA. My setup (with Yoeleo C88s) has me getting to 40kph on about 180W. This is a CdA of around 0.17 which is pretty good. With the standard V20 wheels I would have been over 0.2. I gained around 3kph with these wheels over the stock V20 wheels.

My Yoeleos are 25mm wide rim brake with Sapim CX Ray spokes and Novatec hubs. They were heavier than the website claimed when I got them, but they seem strong and fast. One benefit of them is you can run tubeless without rim tape, so you save a little weight there.
 
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