v20 vs v20c Initial Look and Comparison

[cruzKurt]

After about a week on my new to me v20c with fancy carbon wheels, I have a few observations. The v20c seems harder to pedal to me, for some reason, my v20 feels light and airy, the v20c a chore to pedal. Between the two bikes most everything is the same with the exception of obvious differences in the construction of the bikes. I have wahoo speedplay power pedals, so power data is accurate. The CdA on my v20c is significantly different and this is consistent across 5 or 6 rides based on windsock data on strava. My v20 generally CdA in the .220 range, v20c .320 range. Anyway, posting a comparison chart of yesterday (v20c) and today (v20) identical course, conditions and such on my morning ride.

 

[LarryOz]

The v20c seems harder to pedal to me, for some reason, my v20 feels light and airy, the v20c a chore to pedal.

Kurt,
Very interesting data - thanks for sharing!

If your V20C is a chore to pedal I would look at the BB area. I suspect the bearings may be mis-aligned or too tight in some way. (I had a Silvio that had this problem.) One quick was to check would be to drop the chain and see how freely the cranks rotate. Try it on both the bikes and try and spin the cranks with the about the same force and see if the one on the V20C stops much sooner. That would be my first guess.

Next line both bikes up together and take a picture of them from the side. Do it twice with each one in the front and see the differences.
Also do this with you laying on both bike and them superimpose them togheter.
There has to be some big difference.

Do yoy have the curved slider on both? Same Handlebars, same seat, etc?

 

[cruzKurt]

Kurt,
Very interesting data - thanks for sharing!

If your V20C is a chore to pedal I would look at the BB area. I suspect the bearings may be mis-aligned or too tight in some way. (I had a Silvio that had this problem.) One quick was to check would be to drop the chain and see how freely the cranks rotate. Try it on both the bikes and try and spin the cranks with the about the same force and see if the one on the V20C stops much sooner. That would be my first guess.

Next line both bikes up together and take a picture of them from the side. Do it twice with each one in the front and see the differences.
Also do this with you laying on both bike and them superimpose them togheter.
There has to be some big difference.

Do yoy have the curved slider on both? Same Handlebars, same seat, etc?

I don't have a curved slider on my v20c, but same handlebars and seat. I am trading my chainstay for a longer one for the v20c, so I will take pictures after I get it back together. It seems to me it might be rolling resistance, short downhill off a bridge near my house and v20 reaches 24mph and v20c only like 22mph. Obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks for your input. I will update the thread when I have more data.

 

[vosadrian]

That Cda difference is pretty big. Your V20C numbers are more typical of a road bike. Like Larry, I suspect something is not right with the V20C. It should be very close to the V20... if anything a little better.

 

[Bentsoup]

After about a week on my new to me v20c with fancy carbon wheels, I have a few observations. The v20c seems harder to pedal to me, for some reason, my v20 feels light and airy, the v20c a chore to pedal. Between the two bikes most everything is the same with the exception of obvious differences in the construction of the bikes. I have wahoo speedplay power pedals, so power data is accurate. The CdA on my v20c is significantly different and this is consistent across 5 or 6 rides based on windsock data on strava. My v20 generally CdA in the .220 range, v20c .320 range. Anyway, posting a comparison chart of yesterday (v20c) and today (v20) identical course, conditions and such on my morning ride.

View attachment 15019

Man this doesn't seem right at all. Like everyone else, I wonder if something is mechanically wrong with the bike.

 

[LarryOz]

I don't have a curved slider on my v20c, but same handlebars and seat.

The curbed slider makes a pretty big difference, but probably still not as much as your are reporting.
In my comparsion, my V20 (too of the slider just above the fork) is also about 1" lower than the V20c. This is beacuse I have the V20 setup in the lowest possible configuration for the slider and handlebars. The V20C does not have any adjustment like this so it is one size fits all. This may end up begin higher (as it my case since I am small), the same, or even better for others depending on their V20 setup.
For me, with all other things being equal, this makes the V20C slighly "less" aero than my V20. But we are talk something "very small", than might equate to 0.1 or 0.2 mph with all other things being equal; component, course riden, power, etc.
Keep looking and eventually you will figure out what the major differnce are. Another thing to check would be the wheel bearings. See how each of the wheelsets spins on each bike.

 

[cruzKurt]

The curbed slider makes a pretty big difference, but probably still not as much as your are reporting.
In my comparsion, my V20 (too of the slider just above the fork) is also about 1" lower than the V20c. This is beacuse I have the V20 setup in the lowest possible configuration for the slider and handlebars. The V20C does not have any adjustment like this so it is one size fits all. This may end up begin higher (as it my case since I am small), the same, or even better for others depending on their V20 setup.
For me, with all other things being equal, this makes the V20C slighly "less" aero than my V20. But we are talk something "very small", than might equate to 0.1 or 0.2 mph with all other things being equal; component, course riden, power, etc.
Keep looking and eventually you will figure out what the major differnce are. Another thing to check would be the wheel bearings. See how each of the wheelsets spins on each bike.

I put the drive wheel and put it on my truing stand this morning, it doesn't seem like it is rolling properly compared to the non drive wheel. I don't know if the bearings are adjustable or what, but will have to check it out. I also have the original wheels off the bike that I can use for testing, will assemble this weekend and check it out. I am also wondering if it is the tires. Maxxis Re-Fuse 700x32 tubeless on the v20c, vs 700x28 Continental 5000 on the v20.

 

[cruzKurt]

I am really starting to wonder if it could be as simple as the tires on the v20c vs the tires on my v20? I can't find any rolling resistance data on the Maxxis Re-Fuse Tubeless to compare.

Maxxis Re-Fuse 700x32 tubeless on the v20c vs 700x28 Continental 5000 on the v20

 

[Bentsoup]

I am really starting to wonder if it could be as simple as the tires on the v20c vs the tires on my v20? I can't find any rolling resistance data on the Maxxis Re-Fuse Tubeless to compare.

Maxxis Re-Fuse 700x32 tubeless on the v20c vs 700x28 Continental 5000 on the v20

I'm no expert, far from it, but to throw off the speeds by 2mph? Seems a bit much. Do tires really make that big of a difference?

 

[LarryOz]

I am really starting to wonder if it could be as simple as the tires on the v20c vs the tires on my v20? I can't find any rolling resistance data on the Maxxis Re-Fuse Tubeless to compare.

Maxxis Re-Fuse 700x32 tubeless on the v20c vs 700x28 Continental 5000 on the v20

You do have lots of difference between your V20 and V20C!
I am pretty sure the 32mm tires are going to be slower than the 28mm.
Add no curved slider, some wheel bearing issues - it all starts to add up.
It would also be better to test on a closed loop somewhere - the same day - for a distance of at least 10 miles. I did that all the time on a 1/3 velodrome. I would set my lap to display avg power and I would ride at the exact same power for each test. I would also get up to speed and hit the lap timer - and maintain the same power level during the test. In the end - the distance will show the more aero bike.

 

[M.J]

Maxxis Refuse is in the same vein as a Gatorskin or Schwalbe Marathon, while a GP5000 is widely regarded as one of the fastest tires this side of full-on TT tires. It's an enormous difference.
Change the tires then report back.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I put the drive wheel and put it on my truing stand this morning, it doesn't seem like it is rolling properly compared to the non drive wheel. I don't know if the bearings are adjustable or what, but will have to check it out. I also have the original wheels off the bike that I can use for testing, will assemble this weekend and check it out. I am also wondering if it is the tires. Maxxis Re-Fuse 700x32 tubeless on the v20c, vs 700x28 Continental 5000 on the v20.

On many of the good wheels I see on Youtube for people doing a hub sound test on the drive wheels, they give the cranks a few good spins while the bikes are on a stand and the wheels can turn freely. The drive wheels that spin the longest can spin for about 2 minutes give or take before they come to a complete stop. New wheels with plenty of factory grease initially spin for a shorter amount of time, but after a bit of wearing in they spin for around the same time. It is not exactly scientific but...

This small amount of is almost certainly not the cause of you feeling any significant difference between a V20 and a V20c, but once you get your fit and position dialed in too much factory grease is actually a thing.

I haven't checked for how long non-drive wheels spin, but a brand new Scirocco front drive wheel (no hub friction) on the back of my V20 spun for 6 minutes with a flick of my wrist before I got tired of holding it up and just put it down.

I hate to mention this because it is such a bonehead move that I have done several times, and even closed out my last ride with it, but check your brake rub. My front brake caliper twisted when I applied the brakes near the end of my ride, and the right brake pad rubbed on the brake track for the remaining 4-5km of the ride On the way home up a slight incline. I was thinking "Man, my legs must not have recovered well enough from the previous ride, and I certainly didn't didnt tax them this ride." I found out the brake pad was rubbing when I wiped the wheels before bringing it inside the house. Different wheels often have different rim widths, so this could mean that you are getting brake rub on the wider wheels.

 

[LarryOz]

Maxxis Refuse is in the same vein as a Gatorskin or Schwalbe Marathon, while a GP5000 is widely regarded as one of the fastest tires this side of full-on TT tires. It's an enormous difference.
Change the tires then report back.

That's probably 1mph right there - non-curved slider probably the other 1 mph.
Change those 2 things and I bet you will be much closer.

 

[cruzKurt]

I have been working on the v20c over this week, I discovered the disc brakes are rubbing and I am extremely frustrated trying to get them adjusted. It seems the lever pull is just not enough to give me good braking AND pad to rotor clearance. Must be about 1mm or less clearance with the pads fully retracted and still not enough pull on the brake lever to lock the rotors sufficiently for braking. I don't know if there is some sort of adjustment on the brake levers, but need to figure something out. I believe this partially contributes to my rolling resistance issue. I have a set of Continental 5000 700x28 tubed tires I am going to put on my fancy carbon wheels for testing. More to follow....

 

[Frito Bandito]

I have been working on the v20c over this week, I discovered the disc brakes are rubbing and I am extremely frustrated trying to get them adjusted. It seems the lever pull is just not enough to give me good braking AND pad to rotor clearance. Must be about 1mm or less clearance with the pads fully retracted and still not enough pull on the brake lever to lock the rotors sufficiently for braking. I don't know if there is some sort of adjustment on the brake levers, but need to figure something out. I believe this partially contributes to my rolling resistance issue. I have a set of Continental 5000 700x28 tubed tires I am going to put on my fancy carbon wheels for testing. More to follow....

I only have very limited experience with post mount disc brakes so forgive my ignorance but are you sure the brake pads are the right kind for you calipers, or that they are seated properly? Are they hydraulic? Was there some kind of plastic covering over the brake pads that needed to be removed before installation?
It might help if you can show a pic of them, and provide the make and model of the groupset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3uCGRAWG2M

 

[Henri]

With the brakes and brake disks that were supplied with the ready2ride V20c I had the same problem of not finding any sweet spot, where there was sufficient braking but no rubbing. The levers have an adjustment for reach (distance from the bar, so you have more pull, when you set them far), but that was not enough.
I now have Magura MT4FM (flat mount hydraulics but with flat bar levers as well, as I am using a Surly Corner Stop as handle bar, but they might also work on the stock drop bar with its straight lower part.)

 

[cruzKurt]

I only have very limited experience with post mount disc brakes so forgive my ignorance but are you sure the brake pads are the right kind for you calipers, or that they are seated properly? Are they hydraulic? Was there some kind of plastic covering over the brake pads that needed to be removed before installation?
It might help if you can show a pic of them, and provide the make and model of the groupset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3uCGRAWG2M

Good input, after closer inspection, the rotors are a tad warped, so need to fix that. Looks like @Henri may have experienced similar issues, I need to get the rotors replaced and then go from there, I checked today and I only have about .75 inches of pull from a full pull on my levers, that doesn't seem like a lot, when the caliper seems to need an inch or so to fully actuate. Will continue to experiment. Still have my v20 which I love riding, going to get the v20c dialed in eventually.

 

[ak-tux]

What if you

I have been working on the v20c over this week, I discovered the disc brakes are rubbing and I am extremely frustrated trying to get them adjusted. It seems the lever pull is just not enough to give me good braking AND pad to rotor clearance. Must be about 1mm or less clearance with the pads fully retracted and still not enough pull on the brake lever to lock the rotors sufficiently for braking. I don't know if there is some sort of adjustment on the brake levers, but need to figure something out. I believe this partially contributes to my rolling resistance issue. I have a set of Continental 5000 700x28 tubed tires I am going to put on my fancy carbon wheels for testing. More to follow....

What if you perform the same test with exactly the same wheelset on the V20 by moving them to the V20C? That will eliminate the wheel differences from the equation.

 

[cruzKurt]

What if you

What if you perform the same test with exactly the same wheelset on the V20 by moving them to the V20C? That will eliminate the wheel differences from the equation.

Unfortunately, my v20 wheels are QR and my v20c wheels are thru axle, so that is not really an option. I do have the original v20c wheels and I am ordering some discs for them and gonna try them I think.

 

[LarryOz]

Unfortunately, my v20 wheels are QR and my v20c wheels are thru axle, so that is not really an option. I do have the original v20c wheels and I am ordering some discs for them and gonna try them I think.

You can get QR attachments for the thru axle wheels. Flo sent me a set when I ordered their latest that were default Thru axle and I wanted to use it on my V20 with QR