V20c with Stock KinLin XC-279 rims and Chosen hubs - Wheelset Upgrade Question

[Always-Learnin]

I am running the stock KinLin XC-279 rims and Chosen hubs currently but, I am wanting to upgrade.

The wheel manufacturer asks for 'Freehub Type' but has no compatible option for Chosen hubs.

Their options include:

- Shimano/SRAM
- XDR
- Campy

I am guessing that Shimano/SRAM is what I should choose but I wanted to make sure that I have this right.

I am running SRAM AXS 2x12 wireless with SRAM Force 46-33 chainrings and 11-30 Shimano 12spd cassette

Guru assistance appreciated. TIA!

 

[Frito Bandito]

I have SRAM Force AXS 12-speed on my 2018 V20. I am running a 53/39 Shimano R7000 105 chainring and rim brakes, and the front derailleur shifts perfectly. I want to go to a 55t front, but I don't think the FD stem is long enough to do that unless I make it a 1x12. For wheels, I am running Mavic CXR 60C (clinchers) with a Shimano free hub, and a 12-speed Ultegra 11-30t cassette. The drive wheel is 130mm, and the non-drive wheel is 100mm. I am running a 118L Dura Ace chain and it shifts perfectly. I also have a 12-speed Ultegra 11-34t cassette on my other wheels and despite the Force AXS being listed as a 33t max capability, the 34t on the cassette does work perfectly too. If I do get a 55t crankset then I will remove the FD, and put the Ultegra 11-34t cassette on my Mavic CXRs.

If you put a SRAM XD driver on your drive wheel, then of course you will have to go with a SRAM cassette.
If you put a Shimano free hub on it then you can use either an Ultegra or a Dura Ace cassette.
I don't know about Campy, but I assume you'd have to match the hub and cassette up as well.

Additionally, you should stick with the same make of chain whichever of the big 3 you choose. I have used a 12-speed KMC chain on the Shimano cassette, and it worked perfectly, but I got a good deal on a Shimano chain so I went that route this time.

Previously, the big 3 didn't play nicely together so you couldn't mix and match drivetrains. I suppose they wanted to make them incompatible for profits. But since there is only 130mm of space to play with, and changing from 11 to 12 gears, I think they finally ran out of space and quietly standardized everything without making a big announcement about it. Or, it could be that the microshift capability on the AXS is good enough to make that incompatibility obsolete.

 

[Henri]

Quicky right up front: If you take off your cassette and post a picture of your freehub body we can tell you what you have. (Or you can compare to online pictures.)


The classic option is "HG", which is often called something "Shimano" as well. It is supported by just about anyone except Campagnolo. So it is probably the "Shimano/SRAM" option. It was used on my V20c stock configuration.
Then of course Campagnolo has their own stuff, only interesting if you want to use Campagnolo.
SRAM and Shimano now both have additional standards that allow for 10 tooth cogs on the cassette.
Shimano has Micro Spline for mountainbike and I am not sure about road. (Your road wheel manufacturer has no special Shimano option either, so…)
SRAM has XD for Mountainbike and XDR for road. Only difference is width (because the large cogs in a mountainbike cassette can actually hang off of the freehub body), so XD cassettes can be used on a XDR freehub body, preferably with a shim to get the same chain line.

I guess, you probably have HG, if your smallest cog is an 11t. So you could go HG again and keep the rest the same. Or get XDR and a new cassette at the same time, that can have a 10t smalles cog now. (Even 9t, if you get a cassette from eThirteen or maybe there might be others as well.)
If you already have a 10t smallest cog (Somewhat likely with AXS 12speed. I think SRAM does not make 12s casssetes with 11t, but they might have in the past and third party manufacturers certainly do.), you surely have XDR.


Everything without guarantee! I might have missed something important!

 

[Henri]

I am confused with Shimano freehub bodies now. In a shop I find HG M, HG L, HG L2, Micro Spline. I'd probably go with XDR in the new wheel, add a new SRAM XDR cassette* and sell the old wheel including cassette. But that's me, because I am in the SRAM XD/XDR world already and know what this stuff is…

*)10-33 if the rear mech has the extra capacity and you like range, 10-28 or even 10-26 if you want to be sure or like the range just a bit bigger or smaller.

 

[Always-Learnin]

The wheel manufacturer contacted me and said I need the XDR hub. Thanks to all for the help!

 

[Frito Bandito]

You'll have access to some pretty large cassettes if you are in the hilly area, especially those in the 40-50t range.

 

[Henri]

The wheel manufacturer contacted me and said I need the XDR hub. Thanks to all for the help!

When you say "all my shifting is SRAM" (and you have a cassette witn 10t cog), then one would assume (as I did). But when your current cassette is Shimano, you will certainly need a new cassette with a XDR freehub body.
As I said, I don't think that's a bad idea, anyway.

You'll have access to some pretty large cassettes if you are in the hilly area, especially those in the 40-50t range.

I think, those can only be used with a 1x rear mech from their gravel (44t) and mountain (52t) product lines. 2x road should only do those 33t or maybe 36t.
Not that I think, that would be a bad idea, I use Eagle 1x 10-50 myself, but here there is already a 2x system installed.
Oh and also 11-52 cassettes for the older freehub body also exist. I am using one in the velomobile, where wheel choice is very limited.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I think, those can only be used with a 1x rear mech from their gravel (44t) and mountain (52t) product lines. 2x road should only do those 33t or maybe 36t.
Not that I think, that would be a bad idea, I use Eagle 1x 10-50 myself, but here there is already a 2x system installed.
Oh and also 11-52 cassettes for the older freehub body also exist. I am using one in the velomobile, where wheel choice is very limited.

Yeah, I think 36t is the largest a 2x system will go up to with the long cage RD. I wasn't aware that the 44t and 50t was limited to a 1x system. Good to know, thanks. I haven't tried a 1x system before, and since I am almost always on the flats my idea of what 1x system to consider is very limited to say the least.

 

[ratz]

To get beyond 36 on a 2x setup, you need to use adapters or get extra long B-screws and a tighter front spacing so the derailleur has enough capacity.

RoadLink

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[Henri]

and a tighter front spacing

Does it make much sense to hack it to get more range on the cassette and lose range on the chainring in the same move?

And I remembered, that vour years ago my velomobile came with a mechanical mountainbike shifting System (I think SRAM GX) that took an 11-40 cassette and two chainrings. I think SRAM went fully 1x for mountain bikes in the mean time? Shimano probably still has something like that.

But yeah, that's all far beside the point, not what the TO asked at all.

 

[ratz]

Does it make much sense to hack it to get more range on the cassette and lose range on the chainring in the same move?

And I remembered, that vour years ago my velomobile came with a mechanical mountainbike shifting System (I think SRAM GX) that took an 11-40 cassette and two chainrings. I think SRAM went fully 1x for mountain bikes in the mean time? Shimano probably still has something like that.

But yeah, that's all far beside the point, not what the TO asked at all.

Front shifts are "offset" and rear shifts are "adjustments" potatoe patatoe
You can get a lot of range from a 10-speed GX9 derailleur but that was the end of the era as you pointed to 1x took over.
You can do some crazy stuff now by marrying eagle with road and the axs wireless; but non of that is optimized for the chain and you get weird things to work around. Just stay away from the stuff labeled "transmission" that's all designed to only work within the transmission family of tech

 

[ratz]

- Shimano/SRAM
- XDR
- Campy

Shimano / SRAM - means traditional hyperglide. => SRAM, Shimano and 3rd party cassette sin the 9-11sp are hype glide there are a few 12spd

XDR is an evolution of XD....
The XDR interface is 1.85mm longer than XD and is designed for road hub applications. XDR maintains the same hub spacing and flange locations used for 11-speed road compatible HyperGlide freehub bodies. XDR driver bodies are compatible with all XD cassettes when the cassette is installed with a 1.85mm spacer behind it.

Campy - yeah don't do it; too weird if you aren't a fanboy it add problems. (Campy is like Eagle you have to really be all in to benefit)

Modern bike; get XDR and switch over to the cassette; it's just a better hub and once you have the cassettes you are all good; pretty much the only people not making XDR Cassette is shimano; and low end 3rd party who sell to the bottom market. Shimano has something similar to XDR but it's not gotten traction and their 12sp microspline hyperglide compatible stuff is a PITA and easy to incorrectly put on a hyperglide hub and then jam damaging the hub;

 

[Always-Learnin]

When you say "all my shifting is SRAM" (and you have a cassette witn 10t cog), then one would assume (as I did). But when your current cassette is Shimano, you will certainly need a new cassette with a XDR freehub body.
As I said, I don't think that's a bad idea, anyway.

I have 46-33 chainrings and 11-30 Shimano 12spd cassette.

...get XDR and switch over to the cassette; it's just a better hub and once you have the cassettes you are all good...

So, if I understand correctly, the simplest solution is to purchase an XDR compatible 12spd cassette like this one (https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cs-xg-1270-d1) and then purchase the new wheelset with XDR hubs installed? That will work with my existing setup, yes?

 

[ratz]

So, if I understand correctly, the simplest solution is to purchase an XDR compatible 12spd cassette like this one (https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/cs-xg-1270-d1) and then purchase the new wheelset with XDR hubs installed? That will work with my existing setup, yes?

You should be able to get a freehub conversion kit for your existing wheels unless they are entry-level. What type of wheel do you have? That might be enough; if you photograph the drive hub or know the brand, we can probably figure it out. For example, my DT Swiss 350 I converted to XDR for $99 but my Industry9 custom builds were $200, still that's a fraction of what the wheels cost, so it was a cheap upgrade.
If you get the force 36 on there, you'll have a mountain goat with that 33 on the front and a sub 1.0 ratio.

Meanwhile, what's the rear derailleur model? The capacity must be 42. FD(46-33) + RD(36-10) + 2= 39 + 2 = 41. The plus two is needed for cassettes over 32 T. The Sheldon brown sizing method needs + 2 for cassettes bigger than 32 or the chain winds up two tight, and the derailleur just runs funky. I didn't know this, and it drove me bonkers for a day trying to get the v20c's on the road I had the same problem with the Quest and the T50 12-speed upgrades. Fool me four times I'm done. Consider myself re-edumacated. I thought my small front rings would save me; they did not.

 

[Henri]

You should be able to get a freehub conversion kit for your existing wheels unless they are entry-level. What type of wheel do you have?

I think, you are in the wrong direction now. The original intent seemed to upgrade the wheels without changing the shifting (including cassette). You seem to talk about changing the shifting (especially cassette) without changing the wheel.

 

[Always-Learnin]

I think, you are in the wrong direction now. The original intent seemed to upgrade the wheels without changing the shifting (including cassette). You seem to talk about changing the shifting (especially cassette) without changing the wheel.

I'm wanting to upgrade my wheelset and am trying to do so without having to change other aspects of my setup if possible.