John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
very nice indeed
oo oo oo I want some,
oh oh oh, the price!
oo oo oo I want some,
oh oh oh, the price!
Vendetta unboxing and build
- Thread starter fthills
- Start date
These are some of the latest
These are some of the latest pics not all that intersting. but anyway. Before posting I want to clearly say the way I am thinking of mounting my rear brake is my initiative and not endorsed or recommended by Cruzbike . In fact the instructions clearly say a TT brake should be mounted on the top bridge and if a caliper brake is chosen it should go on the lower bridge. In other words in this litigious environment I take responsibilty for my own modifications. With that disclaimer out of the way , here goes:
This is a standard front brake , the length of the nut in this case is not long enough to grip the brake's bolt once its mounted on the fork. I've ordered some longer than 20mm . On the photo below you see the depth of the crown where the brake is mounted. 40mm
Apologies for including a view of my leg. These are 42cm Salsa woodchipper 2 bars. There is ordinarily plenty of clearance between leg and the drops , but at 3 o'clock in the morning on a 400km brevet my knee may drift just a bit outside the normal pedalling line and hit the drops , so I've ordered a 46cm wide bar.
.jpg)
In my case the holes in the C clamp which hold the handlebar on the boom did not quite align. The out of alignment was less than 0.5mm but just enough so the bolts would not engage in the thread of the boom C section. The answer is not to force anything . if it doesn't fit try to work out why , and take time to think of a solution. Cross threading here would not be good . And here is my solution
This is one of the two steerer clamp bolts that I modified so that they engaged easily into the boom clamp. I just filed a little bit of the thread close to the bolt head as you can see on the right hand side of the bolt. I only filed that part of the thread that fits into the C clamp you can see on the second last photo above. This only need to be done if the C clamp holes don't align . And you can tell that if whilst trying to fit the bolts with your finger tips (and no more) it feels a little stiff. And it only needs to be done for one bolt if only one c clamp doesn't align. Once aligned the bolts go in very smoothly and once tightened up that handle bar is going nowhere. Again for emphasis , don't force anything.
And this is what it looks like all tightned up. Perfect fit, handlebar to boom.
On to the rear brakes in the picture below. Caliper brake on the upper bridge. Its impossible with these shimano R650 to get a smooth cable run to the right hand side of the frame . The Cruzbike are explicit about this. TT brakes for the top i.e cabling which comes off the side of the brake.
But I fiddled and this seems feasible . This is not my final arrangement and is not specified by Cruzbike so take resbosibilty for it as I will if this is the way I decide to go. However that top bridge ,the size of the seat stays and their anchorage so close to the main frame look to me as its a mighty strong arrangement i.e excellent place to put a brake.
These are some of the latest pics not all that intersting. but anyway. Before posting I want to clearly say the way I am thinking of mounting my rear brake is my initiative and not endorsed or recommended by Cruzbike . In fact the instructions clearly say a TT brake should be mounted on the top bridge and if a caliper brake is chosen it should go on the lower bridge. In other words in this litigious environment I take responsibilty for my own modifications. With that disclaimer out of the way , here goes:
This is a standard front brake , the length of the nut in this case is not long enough to grip the brake's bolt once its mounted on the fork. I've ordered some longer than 20mm . On the photo below you see the depth of the crown where the brake is mounted. 40mm
Apologies for including a view of my leg. These are 42cm Salsa woodchipper 2 bars. There is ordinarily plenty of clearance between leg and the drops , but at 3 o'clock in the morning on a 400km brevet my knee may drift just a bit outside the normal pedalling line and hit the drops , so I've ordered a 46cm wide bar.
In my case the holes in the C clamp which hold the handlebar on the boom did not quite align. The out of alignment was less than 0.5mm but just enough so the bolts would not engage in the thread of the boom C section. The answer is not to force anything . if it doesn't fit try to work out why , and take time to think of a solution. Cross threading here would not be good . And here is my solution
This is one of the two steerer clamp bolts that I modified so that they engaged easily into the boom clamp. I just filed a little bit of the thread close to the bolt head as you can see on the right hand side of the bolt. I only filed that part of the thread that fits into the C clamp you can see on the second last photo above. This only need to be done if the C clamp holes don't align . And you can tell that if whilst trying to fit the bolts with your finger tips (and no more) it feels a little stiff. And it only needs to be done for one bolt if only one c clamp doesn't align. Once aligned the bolts go in very smoothly and once tightened up that handle bar is going nowhere. Again for emphasis , don't force anything.
And this is what it looks like all tightned up. Perfect fit, handlebar to boom.
On to the rear brakes in the picture below. Caliper brake on the upper bridge. Its impossible with these shimano R650 to get a smooth cable run to the right hand side of the frame . The Cruzbike are explicit about this. TT brakes for the top i.e cabling which comes off the side of the brake.
But I fiddled and this seems feasible . This is not my final arrangement and is not specified by Cruzbike so take resbosibilty for it as I will if this is the way I decide to go. However that top bridge ,the size of the seat stays and their anchorage so close to the main frame look to me as its a mighty strong arrangement i.e excellent place to put a brake.
I can't find a way of editing
I can't find a way of editing posts but what I am trying to say about the legal stuff ( and the legal stuff here in australia is unpleasant to say the least ) is that if I stray away from the Cruzbike setup instructions , then I take responsibilty for making those modifications on my own bike . I am posting because I really like the V so I'm describing what I'm doing for others too see, share and critique, but that doesn't mean my way is necessarily the correct way .
In brief:
DO NOT follow my lead, pictures or choices on your bike,. DO follow the Cruzbike instructions to the letter.
And if moderators think I'm straying too far ,feel free to delete /edit / remove any part or all of my posts/photos.
I can't find a way of editing posts but what I am trying to say about the legal stuff ( and the legal stuff here in australia is unpleasant to say the least ) is that if I stray away from the Cruzbike setup instructions , then I take responsibilty for making those modifications on my own bike . I am posting because I really like the V so I'm describing what I'm doing for others too see, share and critique, but that doesn't mean my way is necessarily the correct way .
In brief:
DO NOT follow my lead, pictures or choices on your bike,. DO follow the Cruzbike instructions to the letter.
And if moderators think I'm straying too far ,feel free to delete /edit / remove any part or all of my posts/photos.
Thanks for your interest
Thanks for your interest unc.
In the workshop, or more accurately in the lounge room , in the raw setup in the photos the seat feels very reclined.
Yet when I put the V next to my rear wheel drive recumbent between the shoulder blades and seat pan the slope is practically identical.
The difference is above the middle of the spine , around the bottom of the shoulder blades to the top of the shoulder the V seat remains reclined .
It might be easier if I take a side by side photo to illustrate this. For a quick reference take a peek at my photo of the seat . My carbon seat , has more of an upward curve at the head end compared to the Vs seat.
I predict that I will be adding padding to the shoulder area at least until I get used to the feel. When I first got on a recumbent I couldn't
tolerate the seat back being less than vertical. As time went on I reclined the seat and found not only was it more comfortable , it was less tiring , and speed increased . So I also expect that after a time I won't use shoulder padding.
The other lounge room sensations are : the cockpit is compact, and like the Silvio, the handlebars can take as much force as I put into them.
There are other seat modifications that I will make , but these will not involve any changes to the frame or seat. If that sounds a bit cryptic I don't want to say too much until I've done it and that it works.
By the end of today I should have more information and pics .
Thanks for your interest unc.
In the workshop, or more accurately in the lounge room , in the raw setup in the photos the seat feels very reclined.
Yet when I put the V next to my rear wheel drive recumbent between the shoulder blades and seat pan the slope is practically identical.
The difference is above the middle of the spine , around the bottom of the shoulder blades to the top of the shoulder the V seat remains reclined .
It might be easier if I take a side by side photo to illustrate this. For a quick reference take a peek at my photo of the seat . My carbon seat , has more of an upward curve at the head end compared to the Vs seat.
I predict that I will be adding padding to the shoulder area at least until I get used to the feel. When I first got on a recumbent I couldn't
tolerate the seat back being less than vertical. As time went on I reclined the seat and found not only was it more comfortable , it was less tiring , and speed increased . So I also expect that after a time I won't use shoulder padding.
The other lounge room sensations are : the cockpit is compact, and like the Silvio, the handlebars can take as much force as I put into them.
There are other seat modifications that I will make , but these will not involve any changes to the frame or seat. If that sounds a bit cryptic I don't want to say too much until I've done it and that it works.
By the end of today I should have more information and pics .
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
hidden ergonomics
I've always found the ergonomics of the seat stay hidden till you are riding. Interesting thread!
I've always found the ergonomics of the seat stay hidden till you are riding. Interesting thread!
seat comparison
behind the V is my other bent and aside from the top end , the profile of the seats is nearly the same. However as I mentioned earlier there is absolutely no give in the V setup, whereas with the carbon its nowhere near as rigid. It makes me wonder how much energy is lost in the latter setup.
Apologies for the lighting . The camera takes reasonable pictures in daylight but under halogens its a bit off.
behind the V is my other bent and aside from the top end , the profile of the seats is nearly the same. However as I mentioned earlier there is absolutely no give in the V setup, whereas with the carbon its nowhere near as rigid. It makes me wonder how much energy is lost in the latter setup.
Apologies for the lighting . The camera takes reasonable pictures in daylight but under halogens its a bit off.
Getting the seat right
For the last week or so I've been trying to think of a way in which I could make seat modifications so that its more precisely matches the carbon seat I've been riding for the last two years. I wasn't looking for weight savings , but comfort. On my old seat I can do the long brevets and the only thing that hurts are my legs.
After some hesitation I decided to go with styrofoam and fibreglass profiles that I would add to the seat. I've not worked with fibreglass before and the few times I've come into contact with the raw materials ,I disliked the spiky feel of the fglass and the you tube videos I looked at it seemed difficult to get a good result .
Anyway , I decided to give it a crack and invested in styrofoam $ 30, fibreglass from the hardware $30 ,a clothes storage bag $5 and West System epoxy and these are the results
t
The clothes storage bag is vaccumed using a home vaccum cleaner, the reason for showing the back of the pack is, polyethylene does not stick to cured epoxy.
This is what comes out of the bag 24 hrs after placing it in the clothes bag. I cut the blue styrofoam to the profile I wanted with hand saw and coarse file cut the fibreglass to the approximate shape with some overlap applied the epoxy and worked it into the fibreglass with gloved hands then placed the whole sticky mess into the bag , put the vacuum cleaner on for 30 seconds then left the whole thing for 24 hrs.
I repeated the process for 3 different profiles. The right profile I covered with some thin film painters protective plastic , in case the epoxy stuck to the bag . But it gives poorer surface results. Best to just put the wet epoxy assembly into the clothes bag.
Any way the plan for today is to clean up the rough edges. repair/fill the epoxy where required, paint black stick to the V seat with velcro then try it.
For the last week or so I've been trying to think of a way in which I could make seat modifications so that its more precisely matches the carbon seat I've been riding for the last two years. I wasn't looking for weight savings , but comfort. On my old seat I can do the long brevets and the only thing that hurts are my legs.
After some hesitation I decided to go with styrofoam and fibreglass profiles that I would add to the seat. I've not worked with fibreglass before and the few times I've come into contact with the raw materials ,I disliked the spiky feel of the fglass and the you tube videos I looked at it seemed difficult to get a good result .
Anyway , I decided to give it a crack and invested in styrofoam $ 30, fibreglass from the hardware $30 ,a clothes storage bag $5 and West System epoxy and these are the results
t
The clothes storage bag is vaccumed using a home vaccum cleaner, the reason for showing the back of the pack is, polyethylene does not stick to cured epoxy.
This is what comes out of the bag 24 hrs after placing it in the clothes bag. I cut the blue styrofoam to the profile I wanted with hand saw and coarse file cut the fibreglass to the approximate shape with some overlap applied the epoxy and worked it into the fibreglass with gloved hands then placed the whole sticky mess into the bag , put the vacuum cleaner on for 30 seconds then left the whole thing for 24 hrs.
I repeated the process for 3 different profiles. The right profile I covered with some thin film painters protective plastic , in case the epoxy stuck to the bag . But it gives poorer surface results. Best to just put the wet epoxy assembly into the clothes bag.
Any way the plan for today is to clean up the rough edges. repair/fill the epoxy where required, paint black stick to the V seat with velcro then try it.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Why wouldn't you ride it for
Why wouldn't you ride it for a while then decide how to improve the seat?
Why wouldn't you ride it for a while then decide how to improve the seat?
kidneyboy
Well-Known Member
I am going to echo what John
I am going to echo what John just said. When I got my Silvio one of the larger concerns I had was the seat, for all the same reasons you have mentioned. I even thought about the same seat mods that you are doing. Then I rode it for a few hundred miles and realized the seat is darn good the way it is. I added a neckrest, sometimes I use it and sometimes not, it depends on how I feel. On the V a neckrest makes sense because of the seat recline. What you're getting from the carbon seat on your other bike is upper spine and neck support, not shoulder support.
That said, I'm looking forward to your seat mods.
I am going to echo what John just said. When I got my Silvio one of the larger concerns I had was the seat, for all the same reasons you have mentioned. I even thought about the same seat mods that you are doing. Then I rode it for a few hundred miles and realized the seat is darn good the way it is. I added a neckrest, sometimes I use it and sometimes not, it depends on how I feel. On the V a neckrest makes sense because of the seat recline. What you're getting from the carbon seat on your other bike is upper spine and neck support, not shoulder support.
That said, I'm looking forward to your seat mods.
Good questions . Main reason
Good questions . Main reason is comfort . Stationary ,on the bike stand at the moment ,it doesn't feel quite right.
After a bit of a clean up this is the prototype that will go on the seat. I'm not putting a new seat on. I'm padding it so that the profile fits to what I'm used to.
.jpg)
Pretty rough
Good questions . Main reason is comfort . Stationary ,on the bike stand at the moment ,it doesn't feel quite right.
After a bit of a clean up this is the prototype that will go on the seat. I'm not putting a new seat on. I'm padding it so that the profile fits to what I'm used to.
Pretty rough
kidneyboy
Well-Known Member
fthills,
Do you have a pic
fthills,
Do you have a pic from behind the V? How much of your shoulders does the seat mod support? When I had first thought of shoulder support it was similar to the top piece you have there but slightly curved in at the outside of the shoulders. Sort of pushing your shoulders in a bit.
Do you have a pic
fthills,
Do you have a pic from behind the V? How much of your shoulders does the seat mod support? When I had first thought of shoulder support it was similar to the top piece you have there but slightly curved in at the outside of the shoulders. Sort of pushing your shoulders in a bit.
Update
Since the last post I've spent most of my time getting the cockpit feel just right . There are no pics in this post , the V is visually not at its best at yhe moment .Outer cables are too long , inners left deliberately long too etc etc. But I have taken the bike for two 4 hour rides to a local bike track which is two km long . Its on the side of a gentle hill so it either climbs or descends. Both times I took my tools with me to make adjustments.
Some preliminary impressions.:
I like the handlebar in a position that my elbows are against the side of my belly with hands in the drops ( Woodchipper 44 cm hbar). My knees are slightly bent with the crank at its furthest position, , the cleats are about 2 cm behind the ball of my foot. Its not to say that this is the ideal position for everyone. However after trying a big variety of handlebar positions , boom length , cleat positions , etc ,this seems to be the sweet spot for me. I don't know wether its because of practice or familiarity or some other factor ,but when I found the right configuration , the V. really starts to perform to its potential. For example once i got the cockpit layout just right there is much less of the pedal steer phenomenon. The bike feels much more stable pedalling at speed going downhill, starts are easier particularly uphill. And there is no wheel slip even pointing uphill on a 5% gradient on a damp surface.
There is no doubt the V. can climb , more on this later when I give it a more rigorous hill workout.
In summary then , time spent getting your position in the V . just right, is time really well invested.I am really looking forward to the next couple of weeks.
Since the last post I've spent most of my time getting the cockpit feel just right . There are no pics in this post , the V is visually not at its best at yhe moment .Outer cables are too long , inners left deliberately long too etc etc. But I have taken the bike for two 4 hour rides to a local bike track which is two km long . Its on the side of a gentle hill so it either climbs or descends. Both times I took my tools with me to make adjustments.
Some preliminary impressions.:
I like the handlebar in a position that my elbows are against the side of my belly with hands in the drops ( Woodchipper 44 cm hbar). My knees are slightly bent with the crank at its furthest position, , the cleats are about 2 cm behind the ball of my foot. Its not to say that this is the ideal position for everyone. However after trying a big variety of handlebar positions , boom length , cleat positions , etc ,this seems to be the sweet spot for me. I don't know wether its because of practice or familiarity or some other factor ,but when I found the right configuration , the V. really starts to perform to its potential. For example once i got the cockpit layout just right there is much less of the pedal steer phenomenon. The bike feels much more stable pedalling at speed going downhill, starts are easier particularly uphill. And there is no wheel slip even pointing uphill on a 5% gradient on a damp surface.
There is no doubt the V. can climb , more on this later when I give it a more rigorous hill workout.
In summary then , time spent getting your position in the V . just right, is time really well invested.I am really looking forward to the next couple of weeks.
John Tolhurst
Zen MBB Master
Only when riding do the ergonomics reveal themselves!
"In summary then , time spent getting your position in the V . just right, is time really well invested."
I could not concur more strongly. Take you tools, take your time, adjust, test, adjust. Critically important. Even after setting up perhaps a hundred different cruzbikes for myself, each one a litle different, I have to take my tools with me on the first ride. Only when riding do the ergonomics reveal themselves!
"In summary then , time spent getting your position in the V . just right, is time really well invested."
I could not concur more strongly. Take you tools, take your time, adjust, test, adjust. Critically important. Even after setting up perhaps a hundred different cruzbikes for myself, each one a litle different, I have to take my tools with me on the first ride. Only when riding do the ergonomics reveal themselves!
Climbing hills with V
Having spent a couple of sessions on a bicycle track finding the optimum position in the cockpit I decided last night that today, I would put the V to the hammer.
I was persuaded long ago that recumbents do really well on flats and and downhill ,but generally with some exceptions hill climbing is the recumbents weak point. Or at least it is for me.
I was never a good hill climber on a DF but on long brevets they are a fact of life and for me they have a disproportionate influence on how well I do on a recumbent when on one of these rides. I'm always looking at the clock and its rare that I come in with heaps of time to spare. So a recumbents ability to climb is critical for me.
The weather this morning in Sydney was a bit drizzly , the kind of rain that wets the surface of the road but doesn't soak you to the skin.
I took the V to my local hill where I train for climbing . Its a 2.3km stretch that goes from sea level to 190m. The average gradient is about 7.5 % .
On my normal rear wheel drive recumbent it takes me 31 minutes , the best I've ever done is 28 minutes but at the end of that effort I was totally spent.
On the first run with the V it took me 21 minutes.
At first I thought that I must have got my starting time wrong. It couldn't be that on my first outing under power with the V there was a minimum 25% improvemnt in climbing performance over my usual bike.
So I went for a second and a third : 18 minutes for the second run and 20 for the third.
Having spent a couple of sessions on a bicycle track finding the optimum position in the cockpit I decided last night that today, I would put the V to the hammer.
I was persuaded long ago that recumbents do really well on flats and and downhill ,but generally with some exceptions hill climbing is the recumbents weak point. Or at least it is for me.
I was never a good hill climber on a DF but on long brevets they are a fact of life and for me they have a disproportionate influence on how well I do on a recumbent when on one of these rides. I'm always looking at the clock and its rare that I come in with heaps of time to spare. So a recumbents ability to climb is critical for me.
The weather this morning in Sydney was a bit drizzly , the kind of rain that wets the surface of the road but doesn't soak you to the skin.
I took the V to my local hill where I train for climbing . Its a 2.3km stretch that goes from sea level to 190m. The average gradient is about 7.5 % .
On my normal rear wheel drive recumbent it takes me 31 minutes , the best I've ever done is 28 minutes but at the end of that effort I was totally spent.
On the first run with the V it took me 21 minutes.
At first I thought that I must have got my starting time wrong. It couldn't be that on my first outing under power with the V there was a minimum 25% improvemnt in climbing performance over my usual bike.
So I went for a second and a third : 18 minutes for the second run and 20 for the third.
Kim Tolhurst
Well-Known Member
Wah
And, any chance of you getting to Geelong, Vic. on the 28th of October for the Ozhpv time trials etc. (accomodation supplied)
great,
Kim.
And, any chance of you getting to Geelong, Vic. on the 28th of October for the Ozhpv time trials etc. (accomodation supplied)
great,
Kim.
