Vosadrian's V20 Journey - Australia

[Frito Bandito]

Frito, you have to take that spindown data with a grain of salt. Those bearings would not have been tested to spin down in an actual wheel in normal air. If they did it would spin for a couple minutes at most. The reason being is that the aero drag of spokes/valve etc. is orders of magnitude greater than the bearing losses. They say in the video that the standard bearings last half an hour, but I bet you never spun a wheel and got it to spin longer than a couple of minutes. So what I am saying is that the bearing losses for a rider using actual wheels are negligiable. We are talking <0.1W. You could not detect this level of difference even in a tightly controlled test. The bearing drage is like <0.1% of total rider work load. I suspect the way they tested the bearings was either with the wheel in a vacuum, or with a flywheel with high mass (so it goes for a long time) and low aero drag.

That was my first thought too that they did it in a vacuum since they didn't publish the details. But yeah, ceramic bearings really start to shine once the rpms get way above what humans can physically produce, but they are still nice even if overpriced, way out of my price range

 

[vosadrian]

First puncture on the weekend... front tyre at around 55kph down a hill. Was a little nerve racking, but I just unclipped and legs out, and then braked slowly to a stop while keep steering dead straight. There was no slipping or anything and it was no big deal, so the scarey part was more in my head. I have to admit that I had never removed the front wheel, so this was first time. Despite that, it was not too bad. I had watched the video, and it all went to plan. Slowest part was pumping the tyre up with a tiny pump that fits in the moose pack. I will have to get out my CO2 stuff again. But really.... I want to go tubeless. I find with tubeless that most of the time the puncture is repaired, and when it is not, the deflation is slower so safer to deal with. And with the extra hassle of on road repair with a V20 compared to a normal DF, I prefer to do all I can to prevent it.

Rest of the ride I turned into a cruise. Low pressure in the front tyre (50psi??), so just cruise and practised some one handed riding while taking it easy.

 

[Frito Bandito]

First puncture on the weekend... front tyre at around 55kph down a hill. Was a little nerve racking, but I just unclipped and legs out, and then braked slowly to a stop while keep steering dead straight. There was no slipping or anything and it was no big deal, so the scarey part was more in my head. I have to admit that I had never removed the front wheel, so this was first time. Despite that, it was not too bad. I had watched the video, and it all went to plan. Slowest part was pumping the tyre up with a tiny pump that fits in the moose pack. I will have to get out my CO2 stuff again. But really.... I want to go tubeless. I find with tubeless that most of the time the puncture is repaired, and when it is not, the deflation is slower so safer to deal with. And with the extra hassle of on road repair with a V20 compared to a normal DF, I prefer to do all I can to prevent it.

Rest of the ride I turned into a cruise. Low pressure in the front tyre (50psi??), so just cruise and practised some one handed riding while taking it easy.

Glad you kept it upright and the tire stayed on. Taking off the front wheel really isnt nerve wracking if you follow the video. Even if the forks come undone it is pretty simple to get it back on, again, following the steps. I too want to go tubeless, but with the ability to put the sealant in tubes with removable cores I don't feel rushed to buy 2-way rims like I did. At least since we are much lower than on a DF frame broken collar bones should occur less often. The trade off is that being faster means more road rash if we have to lay it down.

Edit: Speaking of pumps, I want to get a bigger one that fits under the seat instead of in the moose pack. It took me over 300 pumps to get the last tire up to a good pressure.

 

[benphyr]

...It took me over 300 pumps to get the last tire up to a good pressure.

I once counted to 1000 as a child on the way home from a late ending get together. It took a long time. The pump must have gotten quite hot with all the friction plus heat from pressurization.

 

[vosadrian]

Yeah I have a very small carbon pump from my DF bike I used. I would have put at least 100 pumps in before I gave up (probably over 200). CO2 is the way to go for this sort of thing I think. I was not using CO2 on the DF due to tubeless. The pump was just to limp home and punctures are rare. But with tubed and expecting a puncture every few weeks (which is normal for me with tubes), I need something to pump quickly. I actually like the idea of tubeless with the those new air liners.... and don't carry any repair stuff.

 

[Mathew Fy]

First puncture on the weekend... front tyre at around 55kph down a hill. Was a little nerve racking, but I just unclipped and legs out, and then braked slowly to a stop while keep steering dead straight. There was no slipping or anything and it was no big deal, so the scarey part was more in my head. I have to admit that I had never removed the front wheel, so this was first time. Despite that, it was not too bad. I had watched the video, and it all went to plan. Slowest part was pumping the tyre up with a tiny pump that fits in the moose pack. I will have to get out my CO2 stuff again. But really.... I want to go tubeless. I find with tubeless that most of the time the puncture is repaired, and when it is not, the deflation is slower so safer to deal with. And with the extra hassle of on road repair with a V20 compared to a normal DF, I prefer to do all I can to prevent it.

Rest of the ride I turned into a cruise. Low pressure in the front tyre (50psi??), so just cruise and practised some one handed riding while taking it easy.

I'm a big fan of the Lezyne pumps, they're easy to use and pump up quickly. My Sport Drive HP easily fits in the Moose Pack.

I read somewhere about CO2 degrading the sealant. Not sure if it's significant.

 

[vosadrian]

I would not use CO2 with sealant in tubeless. With tubeless, punctures are much less likely in my experience, so you and get away with a slow small pump for the once in a while you have a puncture. CO2 is great for gettting going quickly with tubes though if you experience frequent punctures.

On my DF bike I got it down to around 7kg with everything fitted (tyre repair stuff, garmin etc.). My pump is only around 50g or something. And I carried a tubolito 25g tube. Much lighter than CO2. I got it when I was chasing PRs on climbs. But on a V20, carrying a few hundred grams extra is not gonna make much difference. When chasing a few seconds up a 10 minute climb on a DF you do everything you can!! If you miss a PR by a second, you don't want to be left wondering because you were carrying an extra 500g of stuff! I mean I would empty my water bottle before the climb (as there is a tap at the top to refill!!)

 

[Frito Bandito]

I once counted to 1000 as a child on the way home from a late ending get together. It took a long time. The pump must have gotten quite hot with all the friction plus heat from pressurization.

All I remember is that my fingers hurt afterwards and that I didn't want to do it again.

 

[vosadrian]

Just a quick question. I have just ordered the remaining bits I need for a Di2 groupset for my V20. I also want to change the handlebars for something narrower so might be easier to do it at the same time. I am happy with the drop bar style... just want something narrower as I am quite slim and I thing the stock bars are selected to suit someone much larger than me. I have several sets of spare bars from my DF bikes, but they do not have the flare in them that the stock bars have. Is going to a bar set with no flare an issue? Is the bar flare a good feature to retain? What sort of bar width are most people using when going for a narrower setup. I believe the main issue would be to fit my legs between the drops when pedalling?

 

[Frito Bandito]

I tried road bike bars without a flare and leg clearance was an issue in turns, and especially changing gears in turns. What would happen is that changing gears in turns would result in the lever stabbing my leg just above the knee. Not only did it hurt, but it also affected my turn which spiked the pucker factor at the worst time. IIRC OEM was flared 44s and the road bars were 42s. I tried turning the top of the Brifters inboard a bit to give the levers a bit of clearance so I wouldn't knee the outboard bar in a turn, but to make clearance the brifters had to be turned so far inboard that when sitting still or going straight the cockpit looked too odd for my taste.

 

[vosadrian]

What bars have you ended up with Frito?

 

[Frito Bandito]

They are basic aluminum bullhorn bars that are now pointing forward, but I will flip them for comfort today because the brake lever ergonomics were better with them pointing up. I really want them to be as aero as possible, so I will eventually go with Di2 satellite (or remote) shifters and my Campagnolo TT brake levers from my road bike once I remove the clipon aero bars and Deda Tribar.

 

[vosadrian]

Recently on mine I added the curver slider to get the bars lower. I tend to like the bars on the low side so I can cruise with my arms close to my body. Do the bull horns have your arms up high and straight? When going straight and fast I grab the drops quite low, so like the options of the drop bars. But it does look like it could be an issue have them narrow for tight turns. I might try a set of my 42cm bars just tempoarily just to see what it is like.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Recently on mine I added the curver slider to get the bars lower. I tend to like the bars on the low side so I can cruise with my arms close to my body. Do the bull horns have your arms up high and straight? When going straight and fast I grab the drops quite low, so like the options of the drop bars. But it does look like it could be an issue have them narrow for tight turns. I might try a set of my 42cm bars just tempoarily just to see what it is like.

I've seen the curved slider online, but mine is straight. The bullhorns put my hands a little higher than mid-thigh and if I rotate my wrists and pinch my elbows in then it is a little more aero and comfortable. My arms aren't completely straight then, but pushing my upper back into the seat and arching it straightens them out a little more. I'll get a pic my riding position once I flip the bars and get it all stringed up again. It's raining here today and I need couple of things before I can do that.

 

[DavidCH]

3m carbon aero dropbars are good too

 

[Frito Bandito]

Nice looking bars David. That front chain ring looks massive. How big is that?

 

[DavidCH]

I will have to dig it out of the cupboard .

Not as big as my rotor aero shimano daisy cutter.

 

[chicorider]

My favorite handlebar is the Genetic Digest Flared Drop Bar (weird name, nice bar, with a bend that I like). The 44cm width keeps them narrow enough while the flare keeps hands and shifter blades out of the way of whirring legs. Light weight, reasonably priced at $50.00, but always on backorder. They do arrive eventually, if you can wait a bit.

https://www.treefortbikes.com/Genetic-Digest-Flared-Drop-Bar

 

[Frito Bandito]

Yes, it is a weird name, but it does look nice. Plenty of options to put lights and mirrors, as well as places to grip. With bullhorns there aren't many at all. For a multi day ride or simply a lot of saddle time having those options would surely make things easier.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Do the bull horns have your arms up high and straight?

When I answered last time I didn't actually get on the bike and check. I just figured about where they were. During my ride today I noticed that my thumbs are at eye level.