Vosadrian's V20 Journey - Australia

[Frito Bandito]

They sound like great wheels. I have a pair of Zondas with a 16 spoke front and a 21 spoke rear. I am 178cm and about 77kg, and those have no problems even after 4 years as well. Actually, after about 2 years I felt I got my moneys worth out of them and the only thing I do to them about every 3 months is spray some WD40 into the bearings waiting for them to fall apart. The funny thing is that I can spin them up on Biggie/smalls and they spin for almost 2 minutes. They are not aero but they are light. If I ever switch back to disc brakes then the DB Zondas are definitely on my short list. As a matter of fact, I might even use the front as a rear disc by monokoting it if I can ever get some here.

 

[vosadrian]

Yeah, I have a few sets of low spoke count wheels used on my DF. Never had an issue with them. One has been trued after a big hit of a rock at high speed that somehow I did not fall off the bike. But never had a spoke failure on any of these wheels. They are all high quality wheels (Shimano Durace and Roval), and I believe they have good strong spokes. The only wheel I have broken spokes on is a Mavic with a high spoke count. Admittedly, it is the wheelset I abuse the most (jumping gutters etc.), but I had the spoke failure in the first few thousand kms, and after repair it has done 10s of thousands of kms without further issue.

So my plan is to get the wheelset that came with the V20 (Kinlin XC-279 rim) serviced since some spokes came loose. Bike shops around me a re busy lately, so may have to give it to them for a week or two. So I will wait until I am confident to do a few rides with the good wheels on and then do that. Then they will become my training wheels. I will use the good wheels for PR attempts and not anything else. Only issue is changing between Carbon and Alluminium wheels require brake pad change, so a 15 minute job rather than a 5 minute job.

 

[jond]

Yeah, I have a few sets of low spoke count wheels used on my DF. Never had an issue with them. One has been trued after a big hit of a rock at high speed that somehow I did not fall off the bike. But never had a spoke failure on any of these wheels. They are all high quality wheels (Shimano Durace and Roval), and I believe they have good strong spokes. The only wheel I have broken spokes on is a Mavic with a high spoke count. Admittedly, it is the wheelset I abuse the most (jumping gutters etc.), but I had the spoke failure in the first few thousand kms, and after repair it has done 10s of thousands of kms without further issue.

So my plan is to get the wheelset that came with the V20 (Kinlin XC-279 rim) serviced since some spokes came loose. Bike shops around me a re busy lately, so may have to give it to them for a week or two. So I will wait until I am confident to do a few rides with the good wheels on and then do that. Then they will become my training wheels. I will use the good wheels for PR attempts and not anything else. Only issue is changing between Carbon and Alluminium wheels require brake pad change, so a 15 minute job rather than a 5 minute job.

I think you will find the vendetta rear wheel with 16 spokes radial lace will rub the rear caliper excessively and annoyingly. due to the loading 50/50 weight distribution.
You will open the rear caliper rendering it useless. Calipers don’t work so well anyway on carbon brake rim surfaces .

I’ve broken a spoke on a 16 spoke wheel radial and as I said and the deflection was severe but would not be as severe on a 50 mm carbon roval rim. But the loading to the 15 other spokes is a concern to me. Over cautious maybe I am.

I realise wheel integrity has improved over the years. As has knowledge base.

given Robert hollers thoughts on the subject as a bicycle mechanic of some repute I would say use with caution as you describe and see what happens. I hope nothing as a rear wheel slide crash is pretty much the same as front wheel on a vendetta. Safer crash on the v. All the best.

 

[vosadrian]

I'll give the Rovals a go at some point. They are a pretty stiff wheelset despite the low spoke count. Used by pro sprinters to win wourld tour races, so must be stiff enough! I also see many pictures of V20s with similar wheels such as this one: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/vendetta-off-the-trainer.14001/

If buying a wheelset for the V20 that is strong enough as a general training wheel, but fast enough to not lose too much to a race wheel and is tubeless compatible, what is the go to wheel? Something that is fairly aero for 25mph cruising.

 

[jond]

I'll give the Rovals a go at some point. They are a pretty stiff wheelset despite the low spoke count. Used by pro sprinters to win wourld tour races, so must be stiff enough! I also see many pictures of V20s with similar wheels such as this one: https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/vendetta-off-the-trainer.14001/

If buying a wheelset for the V20 that is strong enough as a general training wheel, but fast enough to not lose too much to a race wheel and is tubeless compatible, what is the go to wheel? Something that is fairly aero for 25mph cruising.

how much money have you got Are you prepared to go disc brake. Cheap yoleo etc. expensive well bling enve etc etc. nominated spoke count is available.

 

[vosadrian]

After buying the V20, I have not got much money!! But I am just looking to go tubeless with it and if doing that, may as well get something as well suited to the bike as possible... meaning aero!! I don;t want to go disk brake... that would change my whole groupset.

On my DF before I went tubeless I was getting a tube puncture ever few weeks on average. After going tubeless it went down to one stop in 12 months. I don't feel like removing the front wheel of a V20 by the road side once every few weeks!! And the tubeless tyres are comfy and fast also! I use Conti GP5000-TL (in 25mm).

 

[DavidCH]

Correction Jond is 121 kg and 5'1"

Believe that... not... LOL

 

[Don1]

Who ripped the band-aid off the nsw/sa feud?

 

[trplay]

Who ripped the band-aid off the nsw/sa feud?

It's a shame the Aussies won't join our virtual race group so we can see if the 5'1" 121 kg guy can put out more watts than the two-headed guy?

 

[benphyr]

Who ripped the band-aid off the nsw/sa feud?

Whoever it was thank you for getting the Aussies back.

 

[jond]

Jond did!!!

BUT its all in fun!!!

yes it’s all in jest not wilful at all. Pot stirring is a national pastime along with gambling. In reality I have the utmost regard for my friend .

david remains the one and only south Australian to ride and ignominiously crash my vendetta. True story.

at the time I did not realise that south Australians were all circus folk and I should have taken the back wheel off .

in retrospect I was lucky to escape the state at all. I had to buy a dozen crappy laundry pegs. !

 

[Don1]

Time zone is the killer, trplay. But you never know. I will keep a eye in discord and say hi when I can

 

[jond]

I was wondering how LONG it would take the descendant of a English Convict transported to the NSW Penal colony, to notice the changes in your weight and height!!!!
To balance the world any additions in one, required a subtraction in the other!!!!

I was 6'1" at the start of High school (yr 8) and 67 kg all through high school!!!!!
So slightly lighter than I am now!!!!

The 1/3 that left SA, have now returned due to the bad handling of COVID in the other states, and the taste of our sparkling water!!!!

Our Tesla BIG battery is a world leader, and installed within 100 days, and has helped NSW/VIC power, when one of its DIRTY COAL power stations failed, to keep the frequency at 50 Hz, so ALL power would NOT drop out!!!!
Queensland and Victoria, have seen the light and installing BIG batteries!!!
I don't think NSW has seen the light yet, but that could be because there is either bush fire smoke, OR torrential rains covering the sun!!!

Our streets need to be wide for our Horse and buggies to turn around!!!




Did you get sideswiped by the caravan in SA or WA?

about 170 klm outside the Nullarbor roadhouse.

 

[vosadrian]

Not much riding in the last week, but I did my first metric century (100km/60Miles) on the bike and it was much more comfortable than my DF bike... and my back felt no worse which is the main reason I got the bike. I am getting better at higher cadence/high speed being able to pedal up to around 50-55kph on the 50/11 gear. I would like to be able to pedal up to around 60kph eventually. May still need a 53 on the front for that. This is still 90% on a closed cycle path so mostly I just clip in and can then ride uninterrupted for 80kms. Still getting used to unclipping and getting going. I am getting better every ride in terms of stability and maintaining my lines. I am happy that this bike does appear to agree with me and the risk to get a V20 straight up appears to have payed off for me.

And I can report that my 100k ride was done at around 32kph (20mph) over a fairly hilly technical terrain (1000m (>3000 feet) elevation). I am well short of my peak DF fitness and there is no way I could have done this course at that average speed on my DF currently (thought I could do quicker at peak fitness previously on it). I am confident if I do a flatter route on the fast roads I should be close to the 35-40kph (23-25MPH) average which is close to my DF best, but at a much lower fitness level.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Impressive ride, especially with the elevation. Glad to hear that the bike suits you braddah, and I am def looking forward to seeing you post some blazing speeds and would love to see you taking on some serious races on it. Push hard but keep in mind that it is easy to overtrain when so much speed is at your fingertips. Strong and healthy riders don't come by so often.

 

[vosadrian]

Thanks Frito,

Because of the back issues I have had over the last 6 years, I have given cycling a break for 3-6 months a few times. I have learned a lot from that. The mian thing being that if you have been at reasonable fitness within the last 6 months, it comes back surprisingly quickly. I can get 90% of the way there in 6-8 weeks of careful training rampup. So typically if I start in Spring I can hit good fitness for summer.. although it can take mid-late summer to get to 100%. I find that having a rest day inbetween rides works best for me... so typically I ramp up to 3 rides a week of varying intensity with one being a 2-3 hours at threshold. I find 200k a week is enough to get me pretty good. Until Spring (September), I will be just taking it easy getting 1-2 rides a week in to get on top of bent riding.

I think I am lucky though. I enjoy pushing myself to limits and can endure some pain. It seems to come a bit easier for me than some of my riding mates. One thing that remains to be seen as whether I can achieve similar levels of strength on the bent to my DF. If I can I should be good for some nice pace on the V20!

 

[jond]

Thanks Frito,

Because of the back issues I have had over the last 6 years, I have given cycling a break for 3-6 months a few times. I have learned a lot from that. The mian thing being that if you have been at reasonable fitness within the last 6 months, it comes back surprisingly quickly. I can get 90% of the way there in 6-8 weeks of careful training rampup. So typically if I start in Spring I can hit good fitness for summer.. although it can take mid-late summer to get to 100%. I find that having a rest day inbetween rides works best for me... so typically I ramp up to 3 rides a week of varying intensity with one being a 2-3 hours at threshold. I find 200k a week is enough to get me pretty good. Until Spring (September), I will be just taking it easy getting 1-2 rides a week in to get on top of bent riding.

I think I am lucky though. I enjoy pushing myself to limits and can endure some pain. It seems to come a bit easier for me than some of my riding mates. One thing that remains to be seen as whether I can achieve similar levels of strength on the bent to my DF. If I can I should be good for some nice pace on the V20!

you will achieve similar power and strength. As measured with a power meter. It will take a while. The nuances will come with time as you finalise bike fit and technique. It took me 1000 klm to see similar power numbers. Everyone is different. I do think there is an adaptation period with bent legs.

 

[Don1]

Reminds me of a song.... any cycling is good cycling, babe,b babe, you ain't
seen nothin yest

 

[vosadrian]

Been away the last 5 days, but I did take the next step last week and did an 80km ride entirely on roads with cars. Mostly the roads had a good shoulder but there are a few tricky bits. Navigating the V20 has become much better now and I can pretty much put it where I want within a foot now. Unplanned veering due to pedal input is much less for most riding. But this ride did include a 100m section at >15%. That was a challenge!! I did make it up, but I used the whole road to do it and was not sure I was going to make it. I also spun the front a wheel a bit. I think this bike would be good for up to 5%. I could use it OK 5-10% but would prefer my DF. Above 10% I think I would only do on this bike if it was a small part of a long ride.

As for the pace.... well, the bike is quick. It was a windy day, which would effect things, but for the total ride, I was a little slower than my fastest on my DF. But the ride consists of a hilly 10km at the beginning and end (I live in a hilly area) with about 60km of flat or gentle rolling hills between. I was faster than my fastest DF ride on the fast section... but I lost that and more on the hilly sections. But I was much fitter when I did fastest on my DF... so like for like, the V20 would be quicker.

So 35kph for the full loop (80km with 650m elevation), but the middle flat 60km at around 39kph (24mph). Bike is still standard V20 with kinlin shallow wheels, bottle under seat etc. https://www.strava.com/activities/5123591247

How much faster would some decent wheels and a tail box and basic easy aero optimsation be?

 

[jond]

Been away the last 5 days, but I did take the next step last week and did an 80km ride entirely on roads with cars. Mostly the roads had a good shoulder but there are a few tricky bits. Navigating the V20 has become much better now and I can pretty much put it where I want within a foot now. Unplanned veering due to pedal input is much less for most riding. But this ride did include a 100m section at >15%. That was a challenge!! I did make it up, but I used the whole road to do it and was not sure I was going to make it. I also spun the front a wheel a bit. I think this bike would be good for up to 5%. I could use it OK 5-10% but would prefer my DF. Above 10% I think I would only do on this bike if it was a small part of a long ride.

As for the pace.... well, the bike is quick. It was a windy day, which would effect things, but for the total ride, I was a little slower than my fastest on my DF. But the ride consists of a hilly 10km at the beginning and end (I live in a hilly area) with about 60km of flat or gentle rolling hills between. I was faster than my fastest DF ride on the fast section... but I lost that and more on the hilly sections. But I was much fitter when I did fastest on my DF... so like for like, the V20 would be quicker.

So 35kph for the full loop (80km with 650m elevation), but the middle flat 60km at around 39kph (24mph). Bike is still standard V20 with kinlin shallow wheels, bottle under seat etc. https://www.strava.com/activities/5123591247

How much faster would some decent wheels and a tail box and basic easy aero optimsation be?

well buy a wind tunnel and blow me down depends. Lots of aero optimism optimisation research by Larry o in these forums with facts and figures.

Wheels 1.5 klm/hr. Deep dish

disc rear add another 1 klm / hr

tail box depends on style and shape. Something like on domes bike around a 1.5 klm / hr. Vendetta with 32 spoke al wheelset and bachetta brain bag is as aero as dome with his bike as you saw it

a bag out back or cruzbike race case I would say a little gain. But smart storage.
You’re going to need a wind tunnel. And return to your former fitness.

for me 40 klm/hr is sustainable over 80 klm and I’m 59 and 81 kg at six one.