Want to trade a Vendetta 2.0 for a Silvio

P

paulckennedy

Member
I bought a Vendetta 2.0 frameset in August of 2014. I outfitted it with Bachetta wheels and a SRAM Force groupset. I have been unable to get myself comfortable riding it. I may have a total of 10 miles on it trying to learn so it is basically brand new.

I am interested in swapping it for a gently used Silvio.

I am in Carthage, Texas which is 30 miles West-South-West of Shreveport, Louisiana.
 
Last edited:
RojoRacing

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
Not to sound snarking but only 10 miles? Doesn't sound like you tried very hard it the practice department.

What makes you think the Silvio is going to be so much easier? I'm not trying to criticize, I'm just saying what everyone else is going to be thinking based on your description.
 
LarryOz

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Paul,
Try this: Build a rigid foam tapered incline behind your seat to bring you up to 30 degrees.
That will pretty much give you the 97% of the feel of a Silvio without having to swap with someone.
I know it can be difficult to learn to ride laid back at 20 degrees. Practice with it at 30 degrees for awhile and then reduce it down to 25 and then to 20 and you should do fine!
Larry
 
P

paulckennedy

Member
RojoRacing, those estimated 10 miles have for the most part been on chip seal. Never more than 100 yards at a time.

Basically, I believe the bike for the most part was setup very wrong by my LBS. I readjusted the boom to what I believe correctly accounts for my x-seam. It has a much better feel and is a whole lot more stable.

I wanted to see about trading for a Silvio because of the 5 inch shorter wheelbase and the rear dampening system inaddition to the higher angled seat. When I finally got the bike lined out and took it out for my longest ride of 2 miles yesterday, I noticed that the light, fixed rear-end of the Vendetta was chattering on the chip seal and adding a fish tailing aspect to my riding. After thinking about it, most of my road terrain is chip seal and hills. I figured the Silvio setup would be better situated for my road conditions.

Paul
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Paul, do the Larry suggestion. That's how I adapted. If you can fit a stabilizer to the boom to restrict the boom movement, that would help too.
 
LarryOz

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
paulckennedy said:
RojoRacing, those estimated 10 miles have for the most part been on chip seal. Never more than 100 yards at a time.

Basically, I believe the bike for the most part was setup very wrong by my LBS. I readjusted the boom to what I believe correctly accounts for my x-seam. It has a much better feel and is a whole lot more stable.

I wanted to see about trading for a Silvio because of the 5 inch shorter wheelbase and the rear dampening system inaddition to the higher angled seat. When I finally got the bike lined out and took it out for my longest ride of 2 miles yesterday, I noticed that the light, fixed rear-end of the Vendetta was chattering on the chip seal and adding a fish tailing aspect to my riding. After thinking about it, most of my road terrain is chip seal and hills. I figured the Silvio setup would be better situated for my road conditions.
Click to expand...
Paul,
Usually a longer wheelbase gives you a softer ride.
I am not sure what you have done to try and tune the bike to yourself, or if you have tried to follow the "learn to ride MBB" in this forum, but getting the bike to fit you is critical.
I would suggest you sitting on it and having someone take a picture of you with your hands on the handlebars, etc. One shot with your leg fully extended and the other shot with your leg fully bent.
Most people find they need a little shorter cranks than they rode on with an upright. If your cranks are too long you are either over-reaching when you are extended, or your knees are bent too much during your back-stroke. Either way, it leads to uncomfortableness and will hamper the learning process.

If you can post your pictures on-line to us, we can help you get the fit dialed in.
Expect to tweak your crank length, the handlebar angle, the boom angle, and boom depth, the reach, and your headrest. Everything moves around the seat - it is the only thing that remains fixed!

Other things - Look into tubeless tires 28mm - and inflate to about 80 psi for those chipseal roads. It will ride like a Cadillac with those.

Yes - you are no doubt dizzy now. It is a lot to do, but once you get it all dialed in, you will be rewarded with a fast and comfortable ride!
 
CruzLike

CruzLike

Guru
Hi Paul
I started reading this thread because I'm browsing for a V. I thought this could be an opportunity though I don't have a S to trade.
You have a nice looking bike that many enjoy.
I don't think we will be working out a deal because your issues are correctable and mostly fit related.
I'm not an authority on V fit like Larry is. He has worked out many fit related issues in the past.
Looking at your pics, my untrained eye sees shorter cranks in your future. You seem to be stretching to the extended position and your knee bends past 90 degrees in the near position. I don't think that is ideal.
I think Larry can provide some more detailed direction as far as a size you could change to.
Good luck.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Ah you riders with long calves (my wife is so blessed or afflicted depending on perspective)

Boom is out a litte too far for a beginner IMHO; but leg clearance looks tight already at the handle bars. The extended leg like that is going to add hip throw to the pedaling and that's going to equal wobble. The heavy leg bend is because you have a long calf. So to address that there's a progression

First s you improve you learn some things. An established rider can make the handle bar knee clearance a lot lot less. This is because heel position and pedal ankle bend impact how far back the leg comes. My legs don't hit my handlebar when I ride. But if I try to make it happen a 2mm change in my heel position can cause it. (Same thing on a DF bike really if the fit is dialed in you hit the bars with your knee if you want to) But in the beginner it just better to have the hand too far back so you don't get knee/handle bar clearance surprises.

So...

1) bring the boom Back towards you without changing the length 2 bolt holes on the mount looks like that will do it. You may have to reverse the pivot clamp 180 degree to accomplish. This will get you out of the over extending without your legs hitting the bar.

2) Practice like that; but understand you hands may be too far back and you'll have hand induced input more

3) As you progress; you will be able to shorten the boom to move the handle bars forward leaving the foot position/distance the same. That will give you straighter arms and less arm input to control; that become a big personal preference thing that time will tend to. Some people like them back some like them straight. try both and pick one; but wait until you have become parking lot competent.

4) If you want less leg bend that's the realm of shorter cranks. You do that after you acclimate in parts 1-3 the short cranks biggest impact comes in protecting the knees when you really start to lay in the power. Some people need them or want them others do fine with knee bend.


It takes some time a good friend bought a V20 this winter; he's successfully ridden the Quest and Silvio at my house; he trained in doors on the V20 all winter; first day out on the open road he got his humbling V20 what have I done moment. Once he accepted to ride like he's 6 years old he started to make progress. We've all been humbled by the bike at first; then we start to humble everyone else that we pass; the journey to that point doubles the pleasure if you like that sort of thing. The only downside is the bugs in the teeth from failure to stop grinning at 20mph+
 
Last edited:
LarryOz

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Great photos Paul - looks like I am late to the fitting party :rolleyes: - so all I have to say is: What ratz said (He is after all the expert in all things Cruzbike) . So do what he says and you will have bugs in your teeth in no time! Good luck, and we look forward to hearing your story and your progress!
 
super slim

super slim

Zen MBB Master
LarryOz said:
Great photos Paul - looks like I am late to the fitting party :rolleyes: - so all I have to say is: What ratz said (He is after all the expert in all things Cruzbike) . So do what he says and you will have bugs in your teeth in no time! Good luck, and we look forward to hearing your story and your progress!
Click to expand...
Larry would you recommend 153 or 140 mm crank lengths for Paul?
 
super slim

super slim

Zen MBB Master
Larry, from looking at the photo of Paul, what length of crank would you recommend, or would you need thigh, calf and existing crank lengths first?
 
LarryOz

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
super slim said:
Larry, from looking at the photo of Paul, what length of crank would you recommend, or would you need thigh, calf and existing crank lengths first?
Click to expand...
This is a great tool to get a number to start with:
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/crank_angle.asp

I am pretty comfortable with anything between 135-155. I think 150 is my sweet-spot fit.
Anything over 155 and my knee bends too much on the back-strike and is detrimental to me.
I you are comfortable with pointing you toes during you pedal stroke, then you can also get away with a little longer crank.
I pedal with my foot pointed almost straight up, so I am on the other side of that equation and is probably why I prefer shorter cranks.

Many studies have been run (most on upright bikes) and have reported that there is no real power production difference in shorter cranks or longer cranks.
I think most riders are swayed away from shorter cranks because they are told that since the crank arm is a lever, then they will loose precious leverage (and therefore power making abilities).
In truth, all that really happens is that you will loose a little % of the each cassette wheel's leverage, but if it gets hard to pedal, then you just shift to an easier gear. So the largest affect you would have is if you find yourself riding up very steep hills in your easiest gear and you run out of gears. But the way I look at it, if you knees hurt when riding the longer cranks, it isn't going to help much when you get to those steep hills either.
 
P

paulckennedy

Member
Hip to Knee "A": 52 cm
Knee to pedal "B": 58 cm
yields a crank length of 160-165 mm for High BB.

I'll have to see what's installed on the bike when I get home.
 
P

paulckennedy

Member
I am 5'11.5".

My lbs setup the Vendetta with 175mm cranks which I am guessing are probably an inch too long.

Paul
 
Last edited:
trapdoor2

trapdoor2

Zen MBB Master
LOL, I just entered my measurements. It tells me I should be riding 140mm cranks! :eek: I'm 5-11 but 58.5 knee-pedal and 40.5cm hip-knee (99cm total). My current crankset is 165mm...comfy too.
I have been thinking about going to a 155mm set (for no reason other than I want to try them)...and I would have when I bought these cranks except RotorUSA didn't have any in stock at the time I purchased.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
visit our website visit our website
Top