Wheelsets??

[stargate69]

I'm a 230# newbie to being recumbent who just bought a Silvio. I, and my bike builder, were wondering if the 'new' rear wheel had to be any different from the 'old' front wheel due to 'different' weight distribution ??? Know what I mean ??? Thanks for your responses ....

 

[Abbott Smith]

I'm a 230# newbie to being recumbent who just bought a Silvio. I, and my bike builder, were wondering if the 'new' rear wheel had to be any different from the 'old' front wheel due to 'different' weight distribution ??? Know what I mean ??? Thanks for your responses ....

I'm #275 and I'm riding a Mavic Open Pro rim, 36 spokes and a meh hub with Gatorskins and having no problems.

I'd tell my wheelbuilder to err on the side of robust rather than featherweight. I'm riding borrowed wheels so I'm actively considering new wheel options. One fringe benefit of having a front wheel in back is that front hubs are cheaper. You can spring for a higher quality hub there at incrementally less cost.

 

[1happyreader]

Sounds like an education opportunity, your LBS got two (2) scales ?

 

[ratz]

It's not so much the weight of the rider as it is what you do to the wheel.

Think about the left and right torquing you do on a DF if you smash up a hill levering the bike left and right. Those lateral forces + pot holes + train tracks are what wreck wheels. Spoke count is about lateral forces under weight; turn a wheel at an angle and apply a heavy downward force tangent to the face of the wheel and the wheel will deform. Mean while Pot holes and train tracks are about the quality of the build on the wheel and the qualify of the rim; assuming the tire is properly inflated to protect the rim how much direct linear force can it absorb.

So on a machined made rim of the shelf at 210-280 a 24 spoke front wheel is plenty; if you aren't loading down for touring a 28/32 spoke would likely be over kill. If the wheel was hand made by someone with skillz I wouldn't have any issues training on a 24 and racing on an 18; all the way to the 250 range It's just not going to take that level of torque.

For point of reference: at 200 lbs last year I put 3k miles on 24 spoke drive wheels; and an 18 spoke rear wheels. All my wheels are completely true as tested this spring.

My guess at the 275 range is that you'll burn out your bearings faster than you mess up a 24 spoke wheel. I'll defer opinions to any Clydesdales that have collect more real world data.

 

[Abbott Smith]

It's not so much the weight of the rider as it is what you do to the wheel.

Think about the left and right torquing you do on a DF if you smash up a hill levering the bike left and right. Those lateral forces + pot holes + train tracks are what wreck wheels. Spoke count is about lateral forces under weight; turn a wheel at an angle and apply a heavy downward force tangent to the face of the wheel and the wheel will deform. Mean while Pot holes and train tracks are about the quality of the build on the wheel and the qualify of the rim; assuming the tire is properly inflated to protect the rim how much direct linear force can it absorb.

So on a machined made rim of the shelf at 210-280 a 24 spoke front wheel is plenty; if you aren't loading down for touring a 28/32 spoke would likely be over kill. If the wheel was hand made by someone with skillz I wouldn't have any issues training on a 24 and racing on an 18; all the way to the 250 range It's just not going to take that level of torque.

For point of reference: at 200 lbs last year I put 3k miles on 24 spoke drive wheels; and an 18 spoke rear wheels. All my wheels are completely true as tested this spring.

My guess at the 275 range is that you'll burn out your bearings faster than you mess up a 24 spoke wheel. I'll defer opinions to any Clydesdales that have collect more real world data.

Thanks ratz. I'm still researching. Ultimately I want something that I don't have to worry about and I'd rather it be overengineered since this is obviously not something I know much about.

 

[ratz]

Abbott,

For your case; and weight given what you've posted; and the potential weather; I think it is easier to get dialed in on a good affordable custom built wheel.

I'd start with 28 spoke disc-brake wheel hubs even if you don't yet use disc brakes; double butted spokes, and aluminum hexagonal lock nipples; +rim of choice.

Why a disc-brake wheel? Well?

1. 28 spoke for the 250-300 range day in day out wheel. if you want bomb proof no need for 32 really even at big weights; just need to make sure the builder is good at what they do.
2. Disc hub; because they are just flat out stronger. Since they are designed to slow the bike from the center of the wheel and not the rim edge they are by definition stronger and more durable at the connection points for the spokes on the hub because they have to carry extreme braking forces; I believe we are talking an order of magnitude more force. So more bang for the buck and less spokes need.
3. Disc-brake hub because it's then an easy upgrade to add something like TRPBrakes.com's awesome HY/RD brakes which is hydrolic, and works off of Road cable pull brifters. Excellent future proofing for a rainy temperate area less money spent in the future less potential waste.

So that leaves you pick the best steel bearings you like; avoid ceramic at your weight; and since your in a damp zone make sure the bearings are not uber expensive to change so that you can change them or have them chained every 24 months assume 3 changes over the life of the wheel.

Then fine a good rim. I'd be basing my rim search (at that weight) off of the Velocity family starting with A23x700x, Dyad 700c, and the Chukker 700c. They all have the 23mm+ millimeter width you'll want and the are very affordable since almost all wheel builders stock or distribute them. Learn about them (they have excellent documentation) and then compare other rims against them.



I think the Chukker is the rim for you; but that's just my opinion. From the Velocity documentation

The Chukker is Velocity's deeper and wider version of the Deep V. The Chukker has additional strength, versatility and durability for applications that deliver maximum punishment.

Velocity introduced the Chukker in response to demands for a stronger, beefier and wider rim and calls the Chukker a "Velocity Deep V on steroids." The 32mm deep and 24mm wide rim accommodates larger tires and is available in 700c in machined and non-machined sidewalls.

Ideal use: larger and stronger riders, tandem, touring, commuting, bike polo, cyclocross, trials, freestyle, 29er or standard MTB.

 

[super slim]

On my Silvio V1.0 (2008) I have hand made TWE (Sydney wheel builder) 30 deep * 19 wide wheelsets with 24 bladed spokes on the front drive wheel and 28 spokes on the rear non drive wheel with rim brakes.
These wheels have been hammered on descents over cattle grids and road depressions adjacent to concrete bridge at 75 kph, that have got me air borne and no straightening has been required, and they still spin forever!!!!!

Bob, In Australia, Velocity has a bad name as many rim cracks through spokes, walls and especially the pinned joints, and there was NO support. This is direct from a few friends.
The Chukker (32 mm deep 24 wide) was the rim I was focusing on until I spoke to my mate with 8 bikes of his own, from Triathalon, road, utility, cruiser, and MTBs!

http://www.pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-125.html

When I was researching for loaded TOURING bikes, not racing, I found that Mavic, Velocity, Salsa, and Stans Rims, all had rim failures WITH poor warranty service.

I am 242 lbs and I will go on another self supported tour through Europe, with 42 lbs luggage over the back wheel on a Silvio S30 with disk brakes.

I was looking for a 30 mm deep rim that was 25 to 28 mm wide at the brake surface.
I went for the BHS C31W (Bike Hub Store) which are 31 deep by 24 wide with a brake surface, so I could use it on my Silvio V1.0 with rim brakes.

I went for Hope Evo 2 disc hubs 32 hole due to its strength, ease of obtaining bent spokes (NOT straight pull spokes), and ease of servicing, but with a noisy ratchet, while the White Industries was also very good AND quiet!

I went for Sapim CX-Ray Bladed spokes, 32 off each, due to the disk braking load, and high static load.

The local wheel building I was going to use has had some spoke pull through problems, so I have been trying to grow some balls and build the wheels myself!!!!
I am STILL procrastinating!!!! I WAS going to something else, but I am a POLITE AUSSY!

 

[ratz]

Bob, In Australia, Velocity has a bad name as many rim cracks through spokes, walls and especially the pinned joints, and there was NO support. This is direct from a few friends.
The Chukker (32 mm deep 24 wide) was the rim I was focusing on until I spoke to my mate with 8 bikes of his own, from Triathalon, road, utility, cruiser, and MTBs!

That is interesting data; you see their wheels a lot on the triker crowd and you know those carry some big loads. Sucks if they aren't backing the warranty universally. If you bash their stuff in a public manner here in the states you usually get an email or some form of contact shortly there after asking if they can fix your problems.

I went for Hope Evo 2 disc hubs 32 hole due to its strength, ease of obtaining bent spokes (NOT straight pull spokes), and ease of servicing, but with a noisy ratchet, while the White Industries was also very good AND quiet

Really hard to beat hope stuff; anything that's designed for those ummmm "quality" british roads and ran will take a pounding about the only thing not to like is the price but you do tend to get your value from those.

go on another self supported tour through Europe,

That is the best way to push the demand envelope. Hmmm I'm going to be in the middle of no where next to the end of the planet, how long do I want to be stuck if something broke.

Sapim CX-Ray Bladed spokes

good stuff ....

The local wheel building I was going to use

Stop you got all winter to become a pro wheel builder.... So far I have managed not to recommend which builder to use. that really is one people need to be comfortable with on their own. You get from your wheel builder what you demand; nothing more nothing less really. I hope that's one skill I can continue to avoid.

 

[super slim]

In Aussyland, via Chain Reactions in Ireland, the Hopes are just a bit cheaper than White Industries.

Chris King and DT Swiss need $250 in special tools to service the drive hubs, so OK in Sydney or Melbourne, but not Adelaide, OR Europe!

 

[ratz]

Chain Reactions

Does anyone not buy from them? good company.

Good point on the tools. I had Hope EVO Pro II hubs on my Trike and I really really like them, like unhealthy like, I could pull the bearing cartridge with a small screw driver and my fingers. I have thought about eventually rebuilding a Quest for Winter riding (I really want a FAT bike quest) ; and you can take bets now that Hope will be the hub if i I did that.

When it comes to drive hubs I'm always torn; do I want something deadly silent so I can sneak up on people or do I want something that is so dam loud that I can torture them with how much I'm free wheeling behind them. These day I'm cool with loud because the Vendetta let's me back up that obnoxiousness with speed.

 

[super slim]

I like my noisy TWE wheels for that reason!!!

 

[ratz]

I like my noisy TWE wheels for that reason!!!

Mrs ratz was tormenting people with her quiet wheel coasting on a social tour last year. When I mentioned how much louder her freewheel is this year and reminded her of the upcoming event; she just giggled.... maniacally giggled...... it was disturbingly evil.

 

[super slim]

I wonder where she gets that from????

 

[Bruce B]

Well my V has Bontrager wheels DT Swiss hubs with 36 tooth star ratchets. A good description would be the Cruzbike Cicada.

 

[ratz]

Cruzbike Cicada

Yep that would be very descriptive.

I wonder where she gets that from????

She came that way. But I knew she was a keeper when I figure out that instead of wedding ring she'd rather have a power meter and a power trainer

 

[super slim]

Now that's a GOOD catch!!!