Why are new bikes so heavy?

Osiris

Osiris

Zen MBB Master
jond said:
The benefit of disc brakes is worth the weight.
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GCN did a segment on this very question, and they concluded that disk brakes are worth the extra cost, weight, maintenance, etc. IF you ride in wet conditions a lot, and/or if you ride on hilly terrain. In my case neither of those apply, so I'll stick with rim brakes. Besides, the only bent I have that could be upgraded to disk brakes is the Vendetta; the other two have no mounting points on the frame/fork to accommodate them.
 
paco1961

paco1961

Zen MBB Master
Actually, I've been riding with TRP Spyre mechanical discs on my S40 for 2 years. The only problem I've had is that I needed to use a couple of flat washers on the mounts to line up the rotor and pad just the way I want it. But I had to do that with a couple of DF gravel bikes in the past as well. The S40 set up works extremely well. An added advantage with the front disc is that on the hitch mount rack on my car, the cradle that slides down over the front wheel to secure the bike's front end actually hits the rim brake calipers when those are mounted. With the discs there is no interference.

But I can confirm that the discs are a big plus in wet weather and sloppy conditions. When I was racing DF gravel it was pretty much impossible to stop on a rainy day with gravel slime all over the rims. With the discs I noticed only a very small drop off in braking power. In wet road conditions when there's water but no slime/spackle, replacing stock rim brake pads with the salmon Koolstop pads almost makes up the difference. I know some here like the Truckerco pads as well. I've not much experience with them.

Also, the weight difference between caliper and disc is negligible. Rim brake requires a beefier rim/braking surface (= more rotational mass) and the weight of the calipers. The weight of disc caliper and rotor isn't much more than the combination of caliper and heavier rim. Especially when considering this choice on a 25-27lb Cruzbike, the added weight of about a shilling or two doesn't seem to make much difference. Especially when it means you can stop regardless of conditions.

I have and ride both . . . depending on my mood.
 
ak-tux

ak-tux

Zen MBB Master
One other disadvantage I find with rim brakes besides the effects of water and road grime in wet conditions is that on my home built MBB , it rubs against my legs slightly at the front wheel.

Given, this depends on the bike design, seat position, rider's pedaling style e.t.c but it can be irritating.

However, I love the simplicity of the rim brakes.
 
B

bladderhead

Zen MBB Master
ak-tux said:
Most of us are not professionals, but I believe, we'd all appreciate a responsive bike.
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Responsiveness is a function of frame stiffness.

In the old days my rim brake cables always seemed to be either too tight or not tight enough. I was always adjusting them. And then the blocks would wear and I would replace them and it was so hard to adjust them and they would rub the tyre. And if the wheel got a bit out of true they would grab. That caused me an endo. I love disk brakes.
 
Osiris

Osiris

Zen MBB Master
My recumbents varied in weight from about 22 lbs for the M5 to about 32 lbs for my M1 low racer. On flat terrain (hard to find anything else in Florida), I don't notice the difference when riding them. On uprights, it's a different story. I can definitely feel the difference between my 2012 14.8 lb S-Works Venge and some of the newest offerings from Trek which weigh several pounds more. The newer bikes just felt sluggish off the line and when making rapid directional changes. I was also completely underwhelmed when comparing Specialized's newest Roubaix to my 2013 model. At 16 lbs, my Roubaix isn't the lightest upright I've ever owned, but the newest model feels even heavier. Strangely, the Roubaix's ability to absorb bumps hasn't improved at all; in fact the newer one felt harsher on brick roads than my old one.

Having had disk brakes on all my mountain bikes, I'm certainly aware of their superior braking abilities in inclement weather and better modulation in all conditions, but for me the difference isn't enough to consider upgrading. One thing that also needs to be said is that there's a marked difference in performance among rim brakes. The ones on my Vendetta are fantastic, the ones on my M5 are marginal, and the ones on my M1 are terrible. I'd love to know what makes the ones on the Vendetta so good. They've given me stellar braking performance no matter which wheels I've used, and I've already changed the brake pads once, so the difference is definitely in the brakes themselves.
 
3bs

3bs

whereabouts unknown
as someone who has bikes going back decades, its pretty hard to just kiss rim brakes goodbye. when i built my v a few years ago, i went with rim brakes because i was building the bike out of my parts bin. when i buy a used bike, it has whatever it has. they all get out of adjustment, they all work enough to keep me alive.

weight wise, on a bike, keep me under 25 and i am a lot happier. that said my m5m is 32, and i love riding that bike. however note the comments by @Osiris the m5m lives in florida the land of flat and sun. i also dont have it set up for speed. the wheelset is pretty average and i have a piece of copper pipe as my handlebar and the seat angle is jackedup as well with a chunk of aluminum. my tica is 24, and its faster than the m5m, but a different feel altogether.

trikewise, get it under 30 and give me climbing bars somehow.
 
paco1961

paco1961

Zen MBB Master
Osiris said:
My recumbents varied in weight from about 22 lbs for the M5 to about 32 lbs for my M1 low racer. On flat terrain (hard to find anything else in Florida), I don't notice the difference when riding them. On uprights, it's a different story. I can definitely feel the difference between my 2012 14.8 lb S-Works Venge and some of the newest offerings from Trek which weigh several pounds more. The newer bikes just felt sluggish off the line and when making rapid directional changes. I was also completely underwhelmed when comparing Specialized's newest Roubaix to my 2013 model. At 16 lbs, my Roubaix isn't the lightest upright I've ever owned, but the newest model feels even heavier. Strangely, the Roubaix's ability to absorb bumps hasn't improved at all; in fact the newer one felt harsher on brick roads than my old one.

Having had disk brakes on all my mountain bikes, I'm certainly aware of their superior braking abilities in inclement weather and better modulation in all conditions, but for me the difference isn't enough to consider upgrading. One thing that also needs to be said is that there's a marked difference in performance among rim brakes. The ones on my Vendetta are fantastic, the ones on my M5 are marginal, and the ones on my M1 are terrible. I'd love to know what makes the ones on the Vendetta so good. They've given me stellar braking performance no matter which wheels I've used, and I've already changed the brake pads once, so the difference is definitely in the brakes themselves.
Click to expand...

What brakes do you have on your V that work so well? On DFs I was always an. Ultegra fan but since they don’t make a long reach caliper couldn’t stay with them on my S
 
jond

jond

Zen MBB Master
Osiris said:
My recumbents varied in weight from about 22 lbs for the M5 to about 32 lbs for my M1 low racer. On flat terrain (hard to find anything else in Florida), I don't notice the difference when riding them. On uprights, it's a different story. I can definitely feel the difference between my 2012 14.8 lb S-Works Venge and some of the newest offerings from Trek which weigh several pounds more. The newer bikes just felt sluggish off the line and when making rapid directional changes. I was also completely underwhelmed when comparing Specialized's newest Roubaix to my 2013 model. At 16 lbs, my Roubaix isn't the lightest upright I've ever owned, but the newest model feels even heavier. Strangely, the Roubaix's ability to absorb bumps hasn't improved at all; in fact the newer one felt harsher on brick roads than my old one.

Having had disk brakes on all my mountain bikes, I'm certainly aware of their superior braking abilities in inclement weather and better modulation in all conditions, but for me the difference isn't enough to consider upgrading. One thing that also needs to be said is that there's a marked difference in performance among rim brakes. The ones on my Vendetta are fantastic, the ones on my M5 are marginal, and the ones on my M1 are terrible. I'd love to know what makes the ones on the Vendetta so good. They've given me stellar braking performance no matter which wheels I've used, and I've already changed the brake pads once, so the difference is definitely in the brakes themselves.
Click to expand...

when shimano released the 6800 11 speed a few years back a sell point was a brake ratio change from 3 to 1 to 4 to 1 in line with the dura ace centre mount calipers. Achieved through total re design of caliper.
This made a big difference in superior brake performance and rivals my disc braked bikes in the dry. Smashes my dura ace or especially sram red ten speed calipers.
Rim brakes are just fine but that grinding on the rim in the wet has always been salutary.
Rim brakes are possibly on the way out with many absolute top tier df bikes no longer available with rim brakes.
Of course those of us with expensive rim braked wheelsets or bikes not compatible with disc brakes bemoan that fact.
At least I can put my back wheel on a trike lol.
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I actually love direct mount rim brakes... they just feel superior to the normal caliper rim brakes.

Where I live its dry and sunny most of the year. But disk brake even though its heavier would be an aero advantage when above 25kph. One of this years modifications to the Vendetta.
 
Osiris

Osiris

Zen MBB Master
paco1961 said:
What brakes do you have on your V that work so well? On DFs I was always an. Ultegra fan but since they don’t make a long reach caliper couldn’t stay with them on my S
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I think they're FSA, but I'd have to check when I get home to be sure. I bought my V20 used, so whatever they are, they're not the newest high end brakes. Where they excel is in terms of lever travel and grip on the rims. The ones on my M5 and M1 require a lot more lever travel before they begin to bite. The ones on the M1 are so bad that when trying to set Strava records (easy to do on the M1), I have to get on the brakes and stop pedaling well before I reach the end of the Strava segment, which of course knocks down my overall speed just a bit. There are certain Strava segments that I simply won't try for, because they end very close to a busy intersection, and I just don't trust those brakes to stop me soon enough to avoid rolling into the path of a car.
 
Robert Holler

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
Hey all,

My experience with "light" recumbents are that they aren't all that and a bag of chips - sadly most are flexy fliers and worse than their stiffer and heavier counterparts.

There does seem to be a minimum weight you can realistically make a recumbent and still actually make it for an average rider weight without creating something that is likely to spectacularly fail on you an/or cost so much to manufacture that is sails way beyond what most people will pay for a recumbent.
 
B

bladderhead

Zen MBB Master
I sit on my Grasshopper. I grip both brakes tight. One foot down, one foot on the pedal, and push hard. I can see the BB going up and down. After years and miles and hills and loads on the Grasshopper I got a Silvio and I could feel it refusing to bend. The first bike on which I noticed the rigidity was my vintage Claud Butler and that was why I liked it so much and why I was so pissed off when it was stolen. If rigidity costs weight it is worth it. The best bike is a CB - either recumbent or DF.
 
Osiris

Osiris

Zen MBB Master
bladderhead said:
Most bike frames are a bit bendy. It is rare to find a rigid one, but when you do you can feel it. A rigid 'bent one is even more rare.
Click to expand...

My M1 Lowracer was custom built for Phil Plath, who used it to set 2 sprint records in the 100 and 200 meter. He specified that an extra layer of carbon fiber be added to the frame to keep it from bending and cracking, as his previous Velocraft NoCom had. Just out of curiosity I put it on the trainer and pushed as hard as I could against the right pedal, but the frame showed no sign of deflection, even with 200+ lbs of force applied. I have however been able to bend the frame on my M5 CHR, Bacchetta CA2, and Vendetta 2.0 in similar tests. During an actual ride I don't think an ultra stiff frame really matters, because the force being imparted to each pedal is very low compared to an all out static test.
 
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