Why can't I sell a two wheeled recumbent?

[trplay]

I posted this on the Bacchetta site after they asked for input. Thoughts?

Thank you for asking. This isn’t intended as an insult, merely my optic as to what started the decline of the two-wheeled recumbent market. In the early 2000s Bacchetta’s “Big Blue’” race team was out and about, the Claxton ride, for example. It was a beautiful site to see 50-60 recumbents at a local ride having a blast. Also, the locals discovered recumbents weren’t as slow as they had been led to believe. Recumbents were proving they were a force to be reckoned on the track. They were breaking road records and pro rider Phil Gaimon even wrote an article in Velo News about fast guys on recumbents. This didn’t translate to money for the companies but it did give the recumbent manufacturers a larger target base to work with. Then it was decided to drop the performance arena and simply target the already existing recumbent riding base. Well, this base is 15-20 years older and now a trike looks mighty fine to them. Your customers today are exactly the same people you had 15 years ago. As these folks get older, your base is getting smaller not growing larger. You aren’t getting any new blood. You guys deserted the performance side of recumbents and one only has to look at Cycle-Con for proof. A visitor there would surely be led to believe recumbents are designed primarily for old guys with beards and sandals. Have you looked at your Team Bacchetta page on this site? Honestly, I think it hurts you more than helps. Using a race page over 12 years old is a bit stale. Basically I’m saying you aren’t targeting the base that would buy a two-wheel recumbent today.

Another market that you have missed is the virtual market. Briefly, there are tens of thousands of non-cyclists flooding into this market. A cheap Bacchetta recumbent trainer mount would be great to introduce this new base to our side of cycling. Then when they decide they want to take their new learned hobby outside they will naturally go buy a recumbent. The other day someone very well versed in the recumbent industry said to me they couldn’t see why anyone living in Florida would be interested in a smart trainer. I thought, “hill training!” A smart trainer is perfect when it's deathly hot outside. I was really surprised this person wasn’t aware of the huge number of Floridians who are currently doing just that. Then it occurred to me he was fixated on only one target base. One which despises computers and not really into the performance side of things. Do you know how many of your customers Zwift? Why not consider forming a Bacchetta virtual racing team to enter into this new and huge new market?

 

[benphyr]

As always well thought out. Your argument works for me. I also think trends seem to like to cycle (pun intended) back and forth so two-wheel recumbents will probably see a come back in another generation. Then the trike manufacturers will be asking what happened to all their business and it will be answered they can no longer get up/down to a trike (or died), trikes are heavy, trikes have more drag, everyone wants performance. I think you are correct with your analysis - I wish there was a way for all of the recumbent manufacturers to create or support a recumbent trainer with all the bugs worked out, Smart capabilities, works with all platforms, is silent, and puts your bike on/off in seconds. Stac Zero was fairly close but they are so good they got snapped up by 4iiii Innovations.

 

[bladderhead]

Trikes are all very well for racing or touring, but in town they are too wide. I would miss the ability to go through the pedestrian barriers and underpasses. Same with a velo. Trike would be nice, but if I must chose, it must be two wheels.

 

[trplay]

- I wish there was a way for all of the recumbent manufacturers to create or support a recumbent trainer with all the bugs worked out, Smart capabilities, works with all platforms, is silent, and puts your bike on/off in seconds.

I'm thinking much smaller than a technical smart trainer. Basically a solid platform with an adjustable seat for all the Cruzbike angles with a good Cruzbike triangle. No requirement for wheels, brakes (for now), etc, just a solid compact gadget that will fit onto all trainers and has places to mount the typical indoor accessaries. You get the recumbent position just dont pay the price for an entire bike and can leave it hooked to the trainer.

 

[PeteClark]

Let me suggest another customer profile for recumbents... A child who’s just outgrown his Big Wheel trike, is already used to pedal-steer, has learned to balance on a number of platforms (scooter, skates, skate board…), is always ready to try something different, doesn’t care about UCI rules, and has parents willing to pay a bit extra to get him/her started on a safer/healthier two-wheeler. And just imagine how quickly fads grow among that age group!

 

[ed72]

Kids go beserk when they see me on my bent.

I get interest from older guys who can no longer ride. I direct them to NJ Bents, although I have never been there I know they stock Cruz bikes. It is extraordinarily rare for a hardcore Roadie to ask me about recumbents.

I would indeed think a recumbent Zwift or other online platform would be ideal. I'll try to find the study but there was a crossover study with experienced bent riders and experienced upright riders. The bent riders did not see an increase in FTP (VO2 max??, I forget) but the upright riders who trained on a recumbent showed a large increase in power after returning to uprights. Personally, I had not ridden an upright in 18 months. I wanted to see what my power would be after 24 months of hard recumbent training and surprisingly, I recorded my highest power levels ever (5 minute climbs). That would be a hard sell but if enough high level racing cyclists incorporated recumbent Zwift training off season AND if they showed improvements......Voila.

 

[Rampa]

A tiny, tiny T50 could be both a balance bike and a first pedal bike at the same time!

 

[benphyr]

A tiny, tiny T50 could be both a balance bike and a first pedal bike at the same time!

When I was small we had a balance bike sized bike that had pedals on the front wheel like a kids trike. The wheels were solid rubber and maybe 8" diameter, the seat was shaped metal (pressed from a sheet probably) but we didn't care we had lots of fun until you couldn't fit your legs under the handlebars. I had completely forgotten until the above discussion.
@trplay do you have any sketches of your idea? I can't picture it.

 

[trplay]

@trplay do you have any sketches of your idea? I can't picture it.

Just envision the t-50 front fork mounted to a sawhorse. Add a Thor seat with multiple adjustments. For the more demanding customer add a tv tray to hold their Laptop and electronics. Drill a few holes in the tray so they can zip tie water bottle holders and such. If you really want to get fancy staple an extension cord to the frame for add multiple plugs and USB ports. Now find a welder who can dress this up a bit and you have a winner. If you want to replicate the Bacchetta line of bikes simply add an awful, nasty, 20-foot chain to the sawhorse and turn it backward. Be sure the chain can give you an occasional leg slap or two when you pedal and you are set.

 

[Opik]

Similar thoughts
https://www.facebook.com/groups/890435004624699/permalink/954980384836827/

Trikes are raising the bar to entry for those looking to get into recumbent cycling. With so few used ones around, because the industry has done such a good job of celebrating three wheelers, people do not feel they are welcome to be comfortable on a bike unless they can afford a tricycle (notice we did not use the word bicycle). As a result, by minimizing the two wheel option, the real recumbent has had a hard time getting known about.

This as all the design talent and marketing genius have almost all moved to the slower, clumsier, pricier three wheel pedal version. This as the supremely more comfortable Long Wheel Base bents, the RANS Bikes Phoenix and Linear Recumbent Bicycles Limo and far faster Lightning P39 (Lightning P38 - National Bicycle Greenway) have all had to fight for table scraps.

 

[trplay]

Trikes are raising the bar to entry for those looking to get into recumbent cycling.

This as all the design talent and marketing genius have almost all moved to .......

LOL, love the wording, Props for coming up with some great entertaining lines.

 

[Opik]

Thing is, you just need to turn up.

I don't race, probably never will, but turn up in group rides using a cruzbike, not shy away taking and promoting them, and reply when asked/replying those "cool bike" lines. Thanks to that, one of my riding buddy bought a used cruzbike (the softrider) and became a bent rider x cruzbiker.

ride them in your daily life, ride them to the shops, errands, etc.

 

[bladderhead]

ride them in your daily life, ride them to theshops, errands, etc.

Yes. It keeps me (almost) sane.

 

[trplay]

Oh my dear cult, it's not your fault. Let's stay focused on the question which was from a manufacturer to his customer. They ask, "what do you see as the major stumbling block(s) in the 2-wheel market? Is it lack of innovation? Are trikes so easy to ride that why bother with 2-wheelers? Is electric assist the next logical step in gaining back 2-wheel sales? -----we're looking at big picture changes/innovations which might make a substantial impact".

 

[joy]

I have a simpler explanation. It is lack of places to try one. We were lucky that when my husband showed an interest in trying a recumbent, an article showed up in a local paper (we were vacationing in Florida from Connecticut) about Vite in Venice ( J and J Schlitter). We were able to actually try a bike and subsequently bought a couple of Bacchettas. This lead to subsequent purchases and we are now on what seems to be a continuous road to N+ 1. This would all probably not have happened if Vite were not near us and Dave had not forced me to try one. On a local gravel trail we often see interest from people, but when they ask how to try one, we are at a loss. And so are they. Maybe manufacturers need to find a way to publicize their wares and have small demo days in a variety of places, so people can be physically introduced to the bikes.

 

[Opik]

Oh my dear cult, it's not your fault. Let's stay focused on the question which was from a manufacturer to his customer. They ask, "what do you see as the major stumbling block(s) in the 2-wheel market? Is it lack of innovation? Are trikes so easy to ride that why bother with 2-wheelers? Is electric assist the next logical step in gaining back 2-wheel sales? -----we're looking at big picture changes/innovations which might make a substantial impact".

shops, dealer, people who can borrow you. In some countries, you need to import it.

Recmbents are hard to find, that's it.

they are hard to find physically and medially. No presence in the real world, and also no writing in the common media (for usual cyclists and public)

and rather than focusing on physical presence of shops and dealers, havinga partner who have recumbent bikes (to borrow and try, plus giving tips) and can write articles in the media is a good step.

Its time to burst the bubble