Y26 Progress (was My persistence in searching has borne fruit!)

[SamP]

[Moved this from the Iron Horse thread]

I kept on searching ebay and craigslist and yesterday I found a Trek Y26 which the seller believed it to be a medium a mere 240 miles from here. When asked, the seller said it was 16" from the center of crank to the top of the seat clamp, which I believe makes it actually a small frame. I hopped in the car today and brought it home, so now I hope I have an excellent donor bike. Now when will the conversion kit arrive...?

Update: Using the 2004 Trek technical manual (from the Vintage Trek website) as reference, I'm getting rather puzzling measurements. Some measurements match the small frame size, and others the medium. Well, the important one for me is the standover height and that matches the small...

I'll upload photos tomorrow when I can take pictures in daylight. I'm going to have to trawl the forum for other Y26 conversions, but current impressions:

1. I think I need a new seatpost

2. The bottom bracket shell is listed (in the technical manual) as 73 mm and not 68 mm. Will the bottom bracket I've got still work, or will I need to buy one? Will I need to buy an entire crankset? After more reading, my current understanding is I'll need to buy a new bottom bracket cartridge with 68mm width and a spindle length that matches the current bottom bracket cartridge, in this case 122.5mm.

3. The front derailleur is claimed to have a 31.8mm / 1 1/4" attachment and not 34.9mm. From the discussion linked in the Donor FAQ I guess I need to buy a front derailleur. (I've now measured the "downtube" and it does seem to be 1 1/4" diameter)

Picture update:

Neither of the tires are stock. I wonder if the rear tire will even fit in the conversion triangle, it's a Bontrager Jones ACX 26x2.2" on non-stock Weinmann ZAC-19 rim (which apparently are intended for 1.5/1.95" tires). The rear axle isn't stock either, a Shimano FH-C201 8-speed freehub (but it's got a 7-speed cassette mounted on it, I guess that's not a problem?). The front tire is a slightly more petite Kenda K831 26x1.95" on what might or might not be a stock rim. I just got new tubes/tires for my other bike, I'm thinking I'll swap them for these, they're much slicker road-oriented hybrid tires. This bike weighs in a 36 pounds, about 5 pounds heavier than the technical manual says. Could that be due to these tires?

Are there any compatibility concerns when it comes to the replacement front derailleur? The shifters are Shimano EF29 triggers.

 

[Charles.Plager]

1) Yes, new seat post (or

1) Yes, new seat post (or hacksaw).

2) You'll probably need a new bottom bracket. You probably won't need a new crankset (but it does depend on the type of crankset - square taper and you should be good to go).

3) Yes, you'll probably need a new one (although you can assemble the bike without one).

4) Unless you're planning on riding mostly off-road, get some nich high pressure slicks for that puppy.

It looks like you've done quite well for yourself.

We'll want regular updates with pictures. If we don't get 'em, we'll send somebody around to your house at inconvenient times with a camera!

Charles

 

[Doug Burton]

Steering column

I looked this bike up over at Trek. The spec sheet says it uses a 25.4mm (1-inch) steerer tube, although that one looks awfully like a
1 1/8" inch steerer.

The conversion kit steering column is intended for a 1 1/8 inch fork steerer tube, and if that's what you have, it will bolt right on. If not, it's no big deal, there is an easy work-around.

You'll need a seat post shim intended to adapt a 1" seatpost to a 1 1/8" seat tube. You may have to shorten it, but it will adapt the steering column to the 1" steerer using the clamp provided with the conversion kit.

I've done a couple of conversions this way - works fine.

 

[SamP]

Steering column

The steerer tube is the part which rises from the fork up through the head tube and head set and then has that clamp around it which also clamps to the handlebars, right? i can tell you that the headset is a Cane Creek Aheadset VP-A76C, which from googling seems to have 1 1/8" associated with it.

So I mentioned I was thinking of swapping the wheels with my other bike, I'm wondering if I should swap the cassettes or if I should move the cranksets as well. This would basically move all my new components to the conversion. (Assuming that my other bike also has a compatible bottom bracket axle.)

Update; let me restate this

My old bike (bike 1) has new tires, tubes, and crankset; I'd like to have them on my (newly purchased) conversion bike (bike 2). I see 3 alternatives:

1. Swap tires and tubes between bikes and give up on moving the crankset.

1. Swap tires, tubes, cassette, and crankset between bikes. The rims/spokes/hubs stay on the bikes they originally were on.

2. Swap entire wheels and swap crankset between bikes.

Comments and suggestions?

Possible complication ( http://www.cruzbike.com/conversions-axles-hubs-quick-releases-and-adapter-brackets )

Bike 1 has a steel frame and has thin (2.5mm?) dropouts on front and rear
Bike 2 has thick (5mm?) dropouts on the front (suspension) fork, but the rear (suspension) triangle is steel and has thin dropouts.

 

[Doug Burton]

Trek rear swing arm is steel?

It looks like it is, so the Trek rear axle should be the right length for a steel dropout and should work with the adapter brackets with no worries.

What model is the alternate bike?

Cheers,

Doug

 

[SamP]

My other bike

My other bike is a 1995 Gary Fisher Tassajara.

However,, my LBS had a bottom bracket with a spindle length to match the Trek Y 26's original bottom bracket (but not one to match the GFT), so by default I'm doing my first option. I've swapped the tires & tubes between the bikes (well, I haven't mounted the tires on the Y 26's rear wheel yet, the rim doesn't have that rubber watchamacallit to protect the tube from the spoke nipples ends, instead the rim seems to have an extra layer and all the spoke nipple ends are recessed into that layer, I'm going to talk to a mechanic about whether its safe to just mount the tube/tires or get a watchamacallit.

The assembly instructions are not terribly clear to me, granted I'm just barely a novice at bike mechanics; I've been writing up some notes on my assembly, would there be interest in me posting them?

Next steps:

Clean chain, cassette (and rest of orig rear wheel), rear derailleur, orig front wheel hub with degreaser (I'm intending to use low odor mineral spirits)

Consult bike mechanic

Get tire/tube mounted on orig rear wheel.

Get orig front wheel axle out

Break chain

Continue with Step 23.

 

[Doug Burton]

Always interested...

... in assembly notes and photos. Everyone can learn from what folks are doing...

Cheers,

Doug

 

[SamP]

It's starting to look a lot like a Cruzbike

It's starting to look a lot like a Cruzbike

I've gone through many of the assembly steps, but mostly just hand tightening bolts just to see how everything goes together. I had some difficulties with the assembly instructions and found some problems with the bike.

i've bought a bottom bracket but haven't tried to install it yet, I don't have a chain breaker nor an appropriate crank puller, so the
drivetrain is mostly in the original place. Need to purchase a front derailleur and seat post.

Bike problems:

i mentioned that the tires that came on the bike were not stock and the rear rim and hub were not stock and i'm not sure about the front rim and hub--there were no manufacturer/model markings on them. i installed the conversion hub and it's a bit too narrow by around 3mm. You can see the gap in the picture below.

I guess I need to use spacers here. The hub is about 2-3mm too narrow.

Possibly related, the front fork seems to be slightly bent or warped or maybe its just the dropouts on the front fork. Without using any spacing washers when attaching the FWD brackets to the front fork, the distance between the dropouts on the FWD bracket is somewhere around 130-133mm. The former rear wheel doesn't really fit in the FWD bracket dropouts. (i forced the wheel into the dropouts for the first picture above which caused the plates to deflect some, I'm not leaving the wheel in overnight.)

I wonder if someone used the wrong size hub and then bent the front fork to fit.

More to come...

 

[Doug Burton]

Your approach is a good one...

It's usually a good idea to hand-tight-fit things to see how they're going to go together. Shows up problems quickly.

Adding washers to space out the rear locknuts is fine. You can also just pull the rear nuts up tight and compress the stays - it won't bother anything. I've done it both ways.

Looking good...

Cheers,

Doug

 

[SamP]

Any ideas on the front fork/FWD bracket

Any ideas on the front fork/FWD bracket? Try to bend the fork? Bend the bracket? Try a different fork?

 

[jimbo3b]

Mount the front wheel on the kit first, then the fork

Doug posted something a couple of years back, recommending that you mount the kit to the wheel first, about halfway along the horizontal dropouts in the kit brackets. You've already got the front chain stays mounted; that's good. Now, keeping the wheel centered in the chain stays, and also centered at the top of the fork (so your brakes will have equal travel), see how the kit brackets fit to the fork. Also take note of the needed spacing for the two arms that get clamped tight to the fork a couple of inches above the dropout.

Before you do too much you might see if someone introduced an extra spacer on your drive wheel, so it's now 138 mm instead of 135. Make sure the wheel is centered between the lock nuts, too.

If necessary, you can bend the brackets to fit (according to John Tolhurst) because they're made out of mild steel.

Having said all that, I've mounted my kit on about five forks so far. I was not happy with the two (used) suspension forks; they both seemed out of alignment and despite what I wrote above I couldn't bring myself to bend the kit parts. All three of the solid (non-suspended) forks fit pretty well, so that's what I've ended up riding. I got the three forks from 1) the local bike kitchen (for free), 2) a new cheap one off Ebay for $20, and 3) after I finalized my (current) design I got a nice, light Surly fork for about $100.00.

 

[SamP]

Bad news

Bad news, I've got good evidence that

1. The suspension fork (and/or its dropouts) are warped. I mounted the FWD brackets on my other bike (which has a rigid fork) and both wheels (the converted front wheel and the rear wheel with cassette) drop right into the FWD bracket dropouts.

2. The bends in the FWD brackets are off, by almost the same amount (as each other, not related to the suspension fork) You can see that the FWD bracket flat section with the dropouts are angled a bit (on both forks). This causes wheels to be canted a bit which makes it hard to center the wheels in the fork.

So I think the short term solution is to acquire a new fork, maybe a rigid one for simplicity (and cost), and stick the brackets in a vise and modify the bends a bit.

 

[SamP]

More progress: fork, drive train

Picked up a used rigid fork from a bike shop cheap, wheel fine in the FWD bracket dropouts... however, I think I unintentionally picked up a 29" fork, unable to get the wheel high enough for the brakes to work, will have to acquire yet another fork.

Installed a new bottom bracket and moved the crankset to it. Installed the rear derailleur, it's now looking even more like a cruzbike.

I'm convinced the FWD brackets aren't bent correctly. Are the planes supposed to be parallel? Mine aren't.This is making it impossible to get the wheel centered in the fork.

Main part of FWD bracket (where the dropout and rear derailleur hanger is located):

Part of bracket where the fork is mounted is at an angle to the main part of the bracket

 

[SamP]

Fixed rear (former front) wheel, acquired another fork

Today I fixed the rear wheel, which was quite wonky. I forgot to remove the dustcaps on the hub before inserting the new axle, and then I correctly adjusted the locknuts, etc. I acquired yet another front fork (the third this bike has had) and remounted the FWD triangle again. Now its much better. I'll have to grind off the disc brake mounts so I can adjust the FWD triangle so that the front brakes can work.

Now things are almost to a test-rideable state. i need a seatpost so I can mount the seat, and probably a good idea to cable up at least the rear brakes.

My bike has a 31.6mm seat tube, and from measurements it looks like the seat back needs a 7/8" tube. From searching, it doesn't look like such a tube is (easily) available, so a seat post shim to go from 31.6mm to something that I can get a seatpost that'll go to a 7/8" top. 27.2mm seems most likely.

 

[SamP]

Another day, another fork

Tuesday I went back to the bike shop where I picked up the used fork that turned out to be for a 29" wheel, and swapped it for a different used rigid fork, this time the right size... or was it? The bolts to mount the fork didn't quite fit into the fork's dropouts, gah. About 15 minutes of filing and I could get the bolts in and mounted the rest of the front triangle. I also picked up a used 27.2mm seatpost. I ordered a 31.6mm to 27.2mm seatpost shim on Monday. I've mounted the seatpost to the seat back and now it looks like a recumbent bike! (but don't ride it yet...)

i still need a front derailleur, and none of the bits have been cabled as of yet...

 

[jimbo3b]

You're almost there!

I rode about two months without the front derailleur. It's not a big deal--I didn't want to go too fast while learning the bike, anyway. I'd ride in the middle gear on the flats, and if I was on a gravel trail or in hills I'd stop the bike, stand up, reach forward and pop it onto the smaller ring.

Looking forward to a ride report.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Looking good!
I completely

Looking good!

I completely agree that you can start riding without a front derailleur. I do, recommend however, cabling the brakes...

Let us know how it goes.

Make sure you look at the videos before riding (and my experiences are here)

 

[SamP]

Seatpost shim arrived

Seatpost shim arrived, installed, wow, the seat is so much more stable now.

I went to cable the front brake but it looks like I've cut off too much of the cable, the last 6" of the rear derailleur cable was mangled, so I guess I'll have to get some new cables and work on the brakes and rear derailleur tomorrow.

 

[Doug Burton]

Agreeing with Charles here...

... looking good indeed.

Notice that using a rigid fork has lowered the bike's height in general - this is a good thing.

If you have a vise, you can clamp the adapter brackets in it "face to face" and easily check them for parallelism - and gently bend them until parallel if necessary.

This should be a very good conversion when you're done.

I notice you're still using the MTB-size chainrings - you probably won't need a front derailleur until you go to larger chainrings. Our 8-speed Sofrider used a single 44 tooth chanring and had a very useful gear range. Sounds like you have a very good source for used parts - they may have a square-taper older-type road crankset, which will work well for you after you've learned to ride.

Well done; keep the photos coming!

Best,

Doug

 

[SamP]

Brakes now cabled

I attempted to flintstone a bit and boy was staying in control not easy. I hope I can get into the "can ride ok" stage quickly.

Cabled the brakes, now all that's left is the rear derailleur, oh and i've got to remove the crank and chainrings since i forgot to tighten the three-piece bolt in the chainstay before mounting the crankset.

Yes, the rigid fork noticeably lowers the seat height (even with the rigid fork I can't put both feet flat on the ground) and saves some weight. The converted bike is only about 5 pounds heavier than the original--the big differences are the rigid fork and much smoother and less fat tires.

I know of two local bike shops with significant stock of used components, but most of the stuff was stripped from well worn department store bikes. When I searched through the bin of seatposts at one, I only found only one suitable seatpost and feel lucky.

Tomorrow, hopefully finish the bike!