yet another Silvio build thread

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Considering the crappy road

Considering the crappy road conditions - i.e the need to be more attentive to the surface conditions than usual I'd say you are doing pretty darn good considering you are learning to ride an almost totally new format.

I would probably have gotten distracted at getting my brand new bike dirty and taken a tumble...

Just wait until you get clean, smooth, dry streets and you can pedal hard through a tight turn banking at about 45 degrees through the turn - priceless!

-Eric
 

Rick Youngblood

CarbonCraft Master
Good to read you were able to


Good to read you were able to get your first ride in.

I too, had to place my Spy mirrors close to the hoods in order to see over my shoulders.

I did my forth ride today (sunny and in low 70's). Some small climbing, short downhills, very rough old chip sealed roads. Feel extremely confident now, and very happy with my progress. The Silvio climbs very well (at least on the short climbs). Pretty darn fast too, I was a little surprised at my speeds. I'm also able to do dead-starts now without issues, but it does take some practice.

If you are used to being clipped in, you will find the bike easier to ride and control of the peddle steer I believe. As far as the tight turns, well I keep kick my knee out the avoid heel strike because of force-of-habit.
 

timt

Member
another short ride

I put a set of spd pedals on and went out again.
I'm a little more comfortable clipped in. I don't have to pay attention to keeping my feet on the pedals. Getting up to speed is much easier too when you can use your entire stroke.

Back home after 2.5 miles. I'd worn the wrong gloves and my fingers were no longer functioning. It's supposed to be upper 40s Monday and Tuesday.

I'm not good at holding a line. Holding a lane is about my skill level. I need many miles of practice at a moderate speed.

I'm doing ok with getting started as long as i pay attention.

I have to adjust my bars. The hoods are too long a reach. Maybe I can do it with rotation and not have to lenghen the boom and adjust the F derailleur.

The shift triggers on the brifters are a little too close to the bar. I guess I'll take out the wedges.

The crank seems well placed.

I spent the afternoon creating a set of custom panniers. I imitated features of the Radical Racer pannier and radical solo racer. I wanted something big enough to hold a large camelbak reservoir, but not as big as a touring pannier. I'll post pictures after I try them out and see if I need to modify them to keep them off the rear wheel.
 

Ivan

Guru
Tim, your headrest looks

Tim, your headrest looks really short by the looks of your leg length. Is it pressing against the back of your neck? You may find that lengthening the headrest until it supports the base of the skull but NOT touching the muscles on the back of your neck that that may be more comfortable.

My helmet's tension knob got in the way when I was learning. After 2 months I finally removed the knob and used some velcro straps to hold the plastic piece in place. The result is MUCH more comfortable.

You said the hoods are too long a reach?? If they are too long, why not just lengthen the boom to bring the handle bar closer to your body? You will want your arms fairly straight when holding your bars.
 

timt

Member
adjustmenst and practice

Ivan,
Since taking that picture, I've pulled the head/neck rest out about an inch. It seems fine in the current position. I may adjust it again after a few more rides.
Regarding bar position, I rotated the bars in the clamp and rotating the brifters on the bar. The hoods are still a bit of a stretch on the road. I like where the drops are now, so I will probably slide the brifters up the curve on the bar a little. If that doesn't do it (or makes other problems) the step after that will be lengthening the boom.

John,
Absolutely. Comfort and skill (and cadence) will come with time on the bike. I also need to work on patience.


With luck, the weather will cooperate and I'll be able to get out for a ride this weekend. One of these days the weather will break and I'll be back to daily rides.
 

timt

Member
A few accessories I've added

Since the weather hasn't been as cooperative as I'd like, I've had a little time to play around and try to get things set up. Yes, I know the bike is dirty.

1- panniers- I made a set of panniers. I want to do a century this year and will need space to haul water and other supplies. The panniers are similar to the Radical Racer bags but are 3 inches thick instead of 6" and are about an inch shorter in length. They hang 2-3 inches lower than the seat pan, so they are not completely in my wind shadow vertically. The total package is about 11 inches wide, which is narrower than me. The rear face of each bag has a 2"x5" piece of reflective tape sewn on. ?I have an aluminum strap bracket keeping the bags from swinging into the rear wheel. But I'm not happy with it and am thinking about another solution.

It takes a fair amount of suction to pull water up from the bottom of the bag. I may look at the showers pass veleau for general use and reserve the big camelbak for long rides. I like what Ratz is setting up.

alt="side view of bike with pannier"
DSCN1688sidebike140317.jpg height:352px; width:507px


This picture shows the relative size of the unbottle 100 and the pannier.
alt="pannier and camelbak"
DSCN1687panniercamel140317.jpg height:404px; width:484px


2- Front light mount. I cut a piece of 1" dowel, painted it black, and attached it to the tabs on the BB. The bolt just pins the dowel in place. the tabs on the dowel keep it from rotating. The light is the Princeton Tec Eos. It should be an effective "don't hit me" flasher, but I'm not planning night rides.

alt="frt light"
DSCN1679frtlight140317.jpg height:323px; width:533px
alt="frt light mount"
DSCN1671frtlightmt140317.jpg

3- Rear flasher mount- The rear disk brake mount seemed like a good place for a rear flasher. I cobbled this up from some 3/4"x1/16" strap and 3/4" angle. I painted the aluminum black after fitting it. The light is a blackburn mars 3.0. This opens up space on the head rest.
alt="rear light mount"
DSCN1681rearlightmt140317.jpg  width:461px
alt="rear view"
DSCN1684rearview140317.jpg height:493px; width:88px
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
The camelbak won't work well

The camelbak won't work well on its side unless full (think of where bottom of hose is). I think this is the issue your having (I have no issue drinking from mine which is same model).
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
OK Tim, I need you to give me

OK Tim, I need you to give me pannier maker training. Or hire you to make my Quiver bag....

-Eric
 

timt

Member
Hanging the bag at an angle is a compromise.

I should have said that it takes more suction to lift the water 18 inches from the pannier than it does to pull it from a reservoir mounted high on the seat back. It was a surprise the first time but is manageable if I'm not panting too hard.

Good point, Charles. When the water level gets below the hose attachment it is difficult to draw any more. Once the bag is sucked flat, any liquid below the hose is difficult to draw. Folding the bottom corner of the reservoir helps, but I haven't tested to see if it will stay folded with road vibration. If folding the corner works, I'll lose a few ounces of capacity.

The bladder is not lying flat in the bottom of the pannier. I have a loop in the top of the pannier that allows me to hang the upper end of the bag. It hangs a bit steeper than the seat back angle.

Worst case, I come up with a different way to mount the bladder or switch to another water carrier.



Eric, I have lots of ballistic nylon in black (coated) or white (uncoated) and lighter coated red nylon. When I eventually make it to Kensington, I can get some measurements of your frame.
But maybe this is more your speed, It even comes in yellow
tongue_smile.gif


68279607-a48a-4657-8d0b-439b398bfafe_300.jpg
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Yeah, yeah, I've already

Yeah, yeah, I've already established my duck tape cred. I am a duck tape virtuoso!

I only used blue because I had some on hand I had bought for a project my son was working on and this was my prototype. Hrrrmmph....

tongue_smile.gif


-Eric
 

Charles.Plager

Recumbent Quant
I made a set of panniers...

I made a set of panniers... similar to the Radical Racer bags

Wait, wait, wait, wait!

I didn't read that right the first time. You made the panniers?

O.k. Now you gotta show more pictures of them.

Usual rule is: no pictures, didn't happen.

This time: More pictures, or you bought 'em in a store!
 

timt

Member
since you asked, Charles

These panniers are smallish bags intended to carry water, food, extra clothing, tools etc. for long rides. I'm using them now to work out the bugs and because I don't have any better way to carry my water. Maybe a quiver/Munster boot rig would work.

I got a lot of my ideas from the Radical bags. But this is a one-off for my own use. No commerical intent. I like the Radical Racer/Banana Racer panniers, but they're bigger than need for carrying my water bladder. The Radical Solo Racer might work for the Silvio but is too small for my purposes. The bags are 20" long, 6" tall at the front. 8" tall at the rear. The top is 2" wide. The bottom is 3" wide. The rear face hangs vertical on a 27 degree seat, or would if I filled the bags.
I may make a larger set of bags later.

1- bags mounted on the bike. The red flap is intended to keep rain out of the zipper. And it adds a nice splash of color. The strap holds the rain flap down, and can be used to hold the bag rolled up, if at some point I don't want the bag hanging. The pocket on the side just below the flap (oops) is sized to fit my phone. It's secure, but I'd rather the flap covered it better.
Note the seatstay mounted rear light.

alt="bag closed"
DSCN1691bagclosed140318.jpg
alt="bag unbuckled"
DSCN1690bagunbuckled140318.jpg

Here's the bag open. That loop is is a continuation of the strap over the seat and is positioned to allow me to hang the camelbak from the top of the bag. It's not sitting horizontal on the bottom of the pannier.The hose exits the top of the pannier through the standard overlapping flaps. The right bag is a mirror image of the left.

alt="bag open"
DSCN1695bagopen140318.jpg


There are 3 cross straps supporting the pannier.The lower is 9" long to hang the bags just below the seat at the narrow spot. The middle is 11" long to hang the bag just below the wide port (seat is 7" and 9" wide at these locations). These straps are not adjustable. This is fitted to the Silvio seat, not a generic bag. The third strap goes across the head rest tubes below the seat. That one is adjustable. There's a strap running over the top of the seat connecting the middle and upper straps to allow me to adjust how high the bags hang on the seat. This is also an imitation of the Radical design.
The lower strap attaches to the inner edge of the top of the bag. The middle strap attaches to the outer edge of the top of the bag. This is supposed to make the whole rig taper toward the rear. Might even work.
alt="straps on seat"
DSCN1689strapsonseat140318.jpg
alt="straps"
DSCN1694straps140318.jpg


And here's a view from the back. Poor quality picture because it's shot using ambient light in my garage at night. Those big reflective panels really glow in a flash photo. With luck they'll work the same way with headlights. There is a piece of aluminum bent into a U shape and clamped to the head rest tubes. This is supposed to keep the bags off the rear wheel and does it's job. But I need to come up with a better solution. Maybe bungie cord between the headrest and seatstays. Further experimenting is necessary.
Looks like I forgot to take the taillight off the headrest when I put the new one on the rear disk brake mount.
alt="rear view"
DSCN1697rearview140318.jpg


Probably the most difficult part of this job was planning the assembly process. If I did things in the wrong order, it would make later steps very difficult.

The black fabric 840 denier coated "junior" ballistic nylon. The red fabric is 400ish denier coated nylon that I had lying around from some past project.

My materials for this job came from www.seattlefabrics.com (fabric, straps, zippers, buckles, reflective tape) They're a great 1-stop-shop for synthetic materials. This cost about $40 in materials/shipping and a cold, windy Saturday.

No duck or duct tape went into this project.
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
Yeah but you can carry duct

Yeah but you can carry duct or duck tape in the bags! Yellow on one side and blue on the other.

-Eric
 

timt

Member
And in the lack of originality department...

Here's Tim's adaptation of Eric's imitation of John's Idea.

Eric's is shown in post 4 of Ratz's all wet thread http://cruzbike.com/hes-all-wet#comment-26097 and is immortalized in Sebring photos. I haven't seen John's version.

My intent for this bag is to carry emergency tools tools and a water bladder. I'll use this every day and save the panniers for when I need to haul stuff.

My modifications to the existing idea:
1- use 3/4" P-clips to attach to the head rest tubes. Opened and re-sewed the seam on the head rest cover.
2- Use angle instead of flat bar for the lower portion. I cut the flange off the angle to make the bend at the rear.
3-Drop the whole rig lower than Eric did. Dropping the base lower allowed me to tuck the pump further under the seat, reducing the length of the structure. I think mine is about as tall as Eric's but does not protrude above the head rest.
4- Made a bag instead of blue tape and foam sasquatch boot. Bag is 10" tall, 3" wide, ranges from 7-8" long.
5- made a sleeve to protect the pump in it's cradle below the bag.

I thought about making a wider bag that would hold a camelbak facing front to back. But decided i can stick one in sideways without adding complexity and bends to the rails.

Now if only the weather would cooperate so I could use the bike instead of accessorizing it.


alt="rear bag side view"
DSCN1700rearbagside140323.jpg
alt="rear bag rear view"
DSCN1703rearbagrear140323.jpg
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
YES, YES, YES!!!!
You're


YES, YES, YES!!!!

You're hired. That is pretty darn close to what I was imagining. Except mine is higher on the headrest since I've got short-itis...

-Eric
 

John Tolhurst

Zen MBB Master
I prefer the bag to envelop

I prefer the bag to envelop the structure, so it presents a smooth surface to the passing air. If you want aerodynamic efficiency that is.

Most amusing (to my small mind) is the ultra aero bike with various stuff bolted all over. Aero is so hard to get, and so easy to lose. :)
 

Eric Winn

Zen MBB Master
I had bought a yard of yellow

I had bought a yard of yellow lycra before Bike Sebring to try your wrap around the outside of the frame technique but haven't tried it yet.

But yeah with lights, battery cases, water bottles, repair kit, the rider, etc. it is tough to keep it aero.

-Eric
 
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