Looking for Ultra Distance Event Preparation Advice

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
I am looking to do ultra distance events in 2022 and am looking for advice for them including training, bike setup, components, nutrition/hydration, what to pack and anything else you feel is important to not only finishing but doing well in them, especially from those who have done them. I don't have a home trainer or a power meter but I may get a PM in the near future, so all of my training rides will likely be on my V20. Thanks in advance,
The Frito Bandit :D
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Go Keto Go...

Just load up on salt pellets

Easier said than done.

Do a trainer road program to hit the event in the best possible way
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
Ride at least 300 klm per week.

Ride at 60% of your ftp during the event . Buy that trainer and power meters.

go light go fast carry the minimum possible. Practice practice practice.

eat what you normally do when on course. Real food. Find out about your gut is it sensitive or cast iron.

build up to distance over time. Especially if you’re not regularly riding 200 klm in one day.

audax 200 300 400 600 1000 1200 klm events.

if any see you not finish go back prep more.

ultra distance is about riding smart smart smart not necessarily fast. It’s a lot about your head space and less your natural ability.

It is also about riding to conditions. Eg if it’s hot slow down drink more electrolytes.

it’s impossible to replace calories or sweat one for one when riding.

were you good at longer distance cross country foot races or were you a sprinter.

horses for courses if you want to do really well. However a determined rider can do well no matter.

over distance it is really about the tortoise and the hare.

I’ve seen a grade racers crying on the side of the road 340 klm in with 60 to go unable to move. As plod girl rides by eventually with a knowing sympathetic wry smile.

don’t be that dumb guy.

your other option if you’re time poor as David said is to do a focused timed for event program. This involves intensive training over an eight week plus period to attain a short lived fitness for event.

Personally I don’t think that works as well off a low distance base or fitness base........for ultra distance . I call ultra 400 to 2400 klm rides.
 

CruzLike

Guru
What @jond said
I've ridden in a few 24 and 12hr marathons. Jond covered many good questions and thoughts about riding an ultra.

For me, having a trainer and an on bike power meter is very helpful training and riding tools. I used TrainerRoad to train. When using TR you will take FTP tests. Theoretically, that number is the wattage you can hold for an hour. This will set the wattage in your workouts. This will also tell you what a good wattage to average during your event. With a little creativity you can run a TR workout on Zwift. This will take some of the boredom out of the trainer.

It's good that you are think this far ahead. You can acquire some of these tools in the near future.
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
Thank you so far guys. All of that is great advice. on January 14th I did an FTP test on the river and Strava showed 247w (37.2km/h average speed) over the hour. I don't really trust that number but I know that a PM would allow me to follow a predetermined wattage for the long haul. This year I started going at least 1000km/month, with May being 1945km. At the time I decided to do 1K a month I was a little worried about overtraining or injuring my knees or ankles from over training, but so far nothing has popped up. My longest ride so far is 243km with a 31.4kph average and other than running out of energy I felt fine during it and the following days. To answer your question Jond, I've always had a ton of endurance but for a while I focused on explosive exercises. I got about as explosive as I could get under my own training routines, but after increasing my distances recently I realize that endurance is what my body best works at. It just keeps asking for more. Mentally, I am fine with the monotonous boredom of hours doing an activity. These are part of what makes me want to do the ultra distance races.
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
Thank you so far guys. All of that is great advice. on January 14th I did an FTP test on the river and Strava showed 247w (37.2km/h average speed) over the hour. I don't really trust that number but I know that a PM would allow me to follow a predetermined wattage for the long haul. This year I started going at least 1000km/month, with May being 1945km. At the time I decided to do 1K a month I was a little worried about overtraining or injuring my knees or ankles from over training, but so far nothing has popped up. My longest ride so far is 243km with a 31.4kph average and other than running out of energy I felt fine during it and the following days. To answer your question Jond, I've always had a ton of endurance but for a while I focused on explosive exercises. I got about as explosive as I could get under my own training routines, but after increasing my distances recently I realize that endurance is what my body best works at. It just keeps asking for more. Mentally, I am fine with the monotonous boredom of hours doing an activity. These are part of what makes me want to do the ultra distance races.

I reckon mentally zoning in a distance event is the reason to ride. It’s great. I love it and though I’ve done nothing for years now I’m getting back to it in retirement. It’s never boring. Strangely even the night riding is not boring to me. Lol I must have a low threshold except for the kickr trainer.

over your 243 klm you would maybe have felt good then less so then maybe better. Nice average speed by the way.

Body and mind. This cycle of ups and downs is what I’m referencing in terms of the mental battle and physicality of riding distance.

I could not despite riding 300 plus a week ride bigger than 200 klm. I will need to build up and acclimate my body systems especially my gut. and my mind.

Ride smart and enjoy your distance adventures. You the bike the weather and the land moving as one. And then it starts to rain..
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
I may be complaining a bit during the tough parts of my local rides, but it is just the kicker I use to push harder so I can get it done with. And I do sing Margaritaville while riding in the rain because of the ludicrousness of making bad decisions and then sticking it out because I wouldn't be able to live with myself for giving up midway after talking myself into doing something so idiotic in the 1st place. Like Lloyd said to Harry when going over the pass on the moped "Just go, man."
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
I was coached for a brief period by a well known ultracyclist. He had me increasing my long ride but interesting, he had me doing my long ride closer to Tempo than zone 2 that mostly everyone does. His metric is once 10 hours at tempo could be done, you are ready for anything. I got to 6 hours tempo and that is one hard ride mentally. One key point that everyone makes is to gradually increase your long ride, don't make huge jumps. You need to do a long ride about every 2 weeks. You also need to take rest weeks where you cut your miles and intensity back. It is not do not ride week, just less riding and less intensity. Consistency is important. Don't take too many days off in a row. I am not so sure whether massive miles are necessary although I have always believed that. I might be testing that assumption soon. I had not been riding much at all (actually none) but was doing a lot of backpacking where I unfortunately had a bad fall and sprained my ankle having to hike 50 miles out on it. After a few months, it is pretty well healed. I am signed up for a 1200K in 3 weeks and not sure if I will do it. I did a hilly 300K recently in about 90 minutes slower than usual, but it wasn't bad because of not stupid pacing. The power meter lets you know. I just kept my power below 60% of my current limits. I also walked the very, very steep hills. Yup, no shame.....15% ers kill me and I can almost walk as fast. So, I am trying to say in a round about way, you have to know your limits and stick to them. Otherwise, you will not make it to the end of an ultra event. I rarely don't make it to the end. The speed bumps at 24H Sebring killed my neck and even stopping and icing for several hours, the pain was too much and I bailed after 15-16 hours.

Most of the training plans online work off a weekly schedule with 3 weeks and then one week rest. As I have gotten older, I find a 10 day micro schedule with two hard and then one rest week works better for me. You get stronger when resting. No rest means you are only getting weaker. As you build up the miles and intensity, it is very easy to become overly confident and not take that rest. THAT is a mistake.

If you can do a SR series (200, 300, 400, 600K), they are usually spread out enough
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
Thanks for the information guys. I read in another place or two that 60% of power is the way to go also, so I will keep that as the default. I don't know how long I can hold Tempo, but I really need to get a PM so I can know exactly what my FTP is so I can go from there. On my DF bike, I averaged 37.2kph on a relatively flat course up and back the same path to try and make it as accurate as possible. Strava guestimated it at 247w so until I get a PM I will use that as the default. When I remember to wear the HR monitor, I try to keep my pulse under 130 bpm, at least until some roadie flies by. I wish they would quit doing that so I can train properly for +300km/day. And I am finally relenting on buying a PM. The Assiomas look nice, but Jeez they are expensive.
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
Second hand power meter. Maybe not a pedal based system. Cough garminshite.

run powertap hubs indestructible and been around a long time. Should be able to pick up a 32 spoke training wheel cheap. Unless you’re running disc brakes.
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
Only caution with Powertap is that they have been discontinued since SRAM acquired Saris. This means parts and service will be difficult going forward. I have three of these wheels. The biggest issue is the crappy bearings they used in the rear hub but it is not that difficult to service yourself, despite warnings that they have to be returned to the factory to be rebuilt. The nondrive bearing is very small (6802) and it is more exposed to the elements and the one that wears out the quickest and it is easy to replace. There is a youtube video out there showing how to break them down, so, I suspect a good bike shop mechanic could service them for you. G3 model is the one you want, not the older SL model.

There is an apparently very nice set on fleebay for $325 or BO. Front and rear. Aluminum rims. Relatively new looking GP4000 tires on them. The rear G3 powertap hub listed for $499 by itself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324655259797?hash=item4b96f62095:g:FdsAAOSwipdgrXW1
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
So far no disc brakes Jond. The 4iiii on a Shimano 105 left crank for about $300 US is available online and would probably do alright as long as I don't mind doing a bit of calculating in my head. Being an American might have some hidden issues that I am not aware of yet :D. But you are right. I crash far too often to want to buy a pedal based system. I'll have to do a bit more research on the Powertap hubs (the G3 as you wrote Ed72) and see if it is also what I will use for races. Sadly, no Fleebay for me though. Had to return too many items that were not in the condition the sellers claimed until I finally cancelled my account. Luckily though, we have a few 2nd hand bike shops here that have tons of parts.
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
So far no disc brakes Jond. The 4iiii on a Shimano 105 left crank for about $300 US is available online and would probably do alright as long as I don't mind doing a bit of calculating in my head. Being an American might have some hidden issues that I am not aware of yet :D. But you are right. I crash far too often to want to buy a pedal based system. I'll have to do a bit more research on the Powertap hubs (the G3 as you wrote Ed72) and see if it is also what I will use for races. Sadly, no Fleebay for me though. Had to return too many items that were not in the condition the sellers claimed until I finally cancelled my account. Luckily though, we have a few 2nd hand bike shops here that have tons of parts.
All advice up to this point has been great!
But remember each personal basically needs to find what works best for them - and then practice and execute it during an event.
And it is my belief that no matter how strong, powerful, and fit you are there is going to be a practical limit to your power potential after a certain time (like 8-10 hrs)- as long as you don't push so hard at first that you burn off all the sugar in your muscles (then you won't be standing by the edge of the road watching the turtles go by) - then after that point you just keep pushing the pedals with your "base power" and eating as much as your body can process for energy - as long as you can stay away from crashing due to depletion of sugar and electrolytes you can go and go and go. Sleep becomes the limiting factor then.

I also have come to believe the endurance part of riding is a lot in your "mind". The training (riding a lot of long slow miles) part is going to make you stronger and possibly able to push more watts for longer. But once you figure out the "endurance part" then I think it becomes part of your cycling DNA. I have personally taken months off or riding virtually no miles, then picked right up and started riding 10-12 hours a day with not much hardship.

I am glad you are convinced in getting a PM - it will help you keep in your range.
Caution on buying a PT hub on a wheel that you would not want to ride you event on - I would really go for the crank or pedal based system.
You will not have to do any calcs in your head if you only get a single sided PM - they do it for you - you just don't get left-right powers - which is not really worth the price unless you have an issue with one leg or another and are trying to train to work out the differences.
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
Larry's point about being able to pick it back up is interesting because that is sort of my situation now. I did a really hilly 300k brevet recently and my longest ride in over a year was 34 miles and overall, almost no volume. But, I had been backpacking some. It is partly that the "legs have memory" but probably also that with experience one learns not to be stupid. You learn how not to push too hard and ride within your limits. This is how I use a power meter on longer events, whether races or brevets. It serves as a governor. On the recent 300K, I just backed off the power for the whole ride. I would normally be one of the first finishers but it took me almost 2 hours longer, because I knew it made more sense to ride at 18-19 mph instead of 22-24 mph on the flats and to really take it easy on the difficult hills. You learn when the legs are just being a little baby and not really hurting and you know when to tell them to shut up.

If you are going to do like a 24 hour RAAM qualifier, they are often on a loop course of maybe 50-60 minutes in length. If you can have support to be ready each lap to hand a bottle of your preferred drink, this will save an enormous amount of time vs going to your cooler, unclipping, getting the bottle, getting back on course, etc.

Hydration and nutrition is something you have to figure out. I need less fluid than other riders. I need less food than other riders. If I am riding at 20 mph on the flats, I burn between 450-500 calories per hour with a body weight of 180-190 lbs but this is only taking me 115-120 watts or say maybe 40-50% of FTP. This is about all I can hold after 12 or hours. At that percentage of FTP, most of the power coming from burning fat. I might only need to replace 200 calories per hour of carbs. This is not too hard to do if you are diligent. Some riders can process up to 350 calories per hour of carbs, whether in drinks or snack type stuff. You want to frequently eat a little bit of what you like or what your body is telling you to eat. Frequently might be every 20-30 minutes bit into something. Or, you may learn that you like energy drinks or homemade brews using maltodextrin or the like. If you are getting sick to the stomach, there are four likely reasons. 1. Too much fluids. 2. Too much food. 3. Overheated. 4. Lack of fitness

I would encourage you to look into randonneuring if not already a member. The standard distances are 200, 300, 400, 600km. Completing all four distances makes you a Super Randonneur. The events are usually in late winter into early summer and are spaced pretty nicely to build long distance endurance. You can pretty much ride them at your own pace and they are non competitive, so, they give you a good chance to work out nutrition, pacing, riding at night, lights, etc. I used to be able to do 200 mile training rides but it takes a lot of motivation and at my age, I don't do it. A brevet on the other hand can get me out there. YMMV.

The biggest bang for your performance buck are wheels and tires. Ride fast tires. Don't be afraid of fixing a flat. If you have to, practice fixing them. GP5000 over Gatorskins can save you something like 20-30 miles on a 24 hour event, please don't make me calculate, plus actual Crr on roads is much higher than those we read about on steel drum. Also, on a fast bent like V20, your speed is sufficient to justify fast wheels in the 50-80 mm depth range....if you can handle them in wind.....most can.

For whatever reason, the first few hours riding (only on a bent), I have to pee like a racehorse. Maybe 6 times per hour. This is a disaster in a race. I use a condom catheter that attaches over the "device" and has a removable connection to a tube. On country roads, I just wait for a 1% downhill and pull the tubing out to water the grass on the side of the road as I glide along. I apologize if this grosses anyone out. Urine is sterile. After some hours, my kidneys behave and I can remove the thing.
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
Only caution with Powertap is that they have been discontinued since SRAM acquired Saris. This means parts and service will be difficult going forward. I have three of these wheels. The biggest issue is the crappy bearings they used in the rear hub but it is not that difficult to service yourself, despite warnings that they have to be returned to the factory to be rebuilt. The nondrive bearing is very small (6802) and it is more exposed to the elements and the one that wears out the quickest and it is easy to replace. There is a youtube video out there showing how to break them down, so, I suspect a good bike shop mechanic could service them for you. G3 model is the one you want, not the older SL model.

There is an apparently very nice set on fleebay for $325 or BO. Front and rear. Aluminum rims. Relatively new looking GP4000 tires on them. The rear G3 powertap hub listed for $499 by itself.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324655259797?hash=item4b96f62095:g:FdsAAOSwipdgrXW1

ahh @ed72 i was not aware they had been discontinued. I have changed bearings on my training wheel g3 hub. Simple no problem . My G3c hub is oem.
 

jond

Zen MBB Master
I used old bearings and a socket from socket set to tap in new bearings. Make your own press tool using brooker rod. Threaded rod. Some washers nuts and sockets good to go.

Like any job it’s all about having a go. Right.

of course some are mechanical clutz and everything they touch breaks. We need these people as much as handy dandy. Whom else can we pass knowledge to ;)
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
All advice up to this point has been great!
But remember each personal basically needs to find what works best for them - and then practice and execute it during an event.
And it is my belief that no matter how strong, powerful, and fit you are there is going to be a practical limit to your power potential after a certain time (like 8-10 hrs)- as long as you don't push so hard at first that you burn off all the sugar in your muscles (then you won't be standing by the edge of the road watching the turtles go by) - then after that point you just keep pushing the pedals with your "base power" and eating as much as your body can process for energy - as long as you can stay away from crashing due to depletion of sugar and electrolytes you can go and go and go. Sleep becomes the limiting factor then.
Thats part of my problem. I know endurance is what I excel at, but being too competitive... I'll have to learn to let the fast peeps go and not try to race their race. It works racing against the hobbyists and retirees, but not against truly fast racers.

I also have come to believe the endurance part of riding is a lot in your "mind". The training (riding a lot of long slow miles) part is going to make you stronger and possibly able to push more watts for longer. But once you figure out the "endurance part" then I think it becomes part of your cycling DNA. I have personally taken months off or riding virtually no miles, then picked right up and started riding 10-12 hours a day with not much hardship.

I am glad you are convinced in getting a PM - it will help you keep in your range.
Caution on buying a PT hub on a wheel that you would not want to ride you event on - I would really go for the crank or pedal based system.
You will not have to do any calcs in your head if you only get a single sided PM - they do it for you - you just don't get left-right powers - which is not really worth the price unless you have an issue with one leg or another and are trying to train to work out the differences.

Since I started riding I haven't taken more than a week off, so I don't know how long it would take to get back up to speed. But muscle "memory" has returned fairly quickly in the other sports when I took a break. I do agree about endurance being a lot in the mind. While being an M60 gunner in the Marines we went on some hellish humps that had a few just fell out of. They were not near their physical limit, they just gave up and got put in the "Baby Wagon" that mopped up the stragglers who weren't keeping up.

Both legs are fine, so I'll put aside my doubts on a single sided PM on the crank. I like the Assiomas. There is even a tutorial about putting the Assiomas on Deore SPD pedals that I could swap between the V20 and my DF bike. Now I don't even ride my DF bike, and if I tip over then I might be out of luck. So, the 4iii is looking pretty nice. And it would be the same cranks I would use for training and the race. $300 for the 4iii and over $500 for a single sided Assioma that could get damaged? Plus, the 4iii is compatible with my Wahoo Bolt.
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
I reckon mentally zoning in a distance event is the reason to ride. It’s great. I love it and though I’ve done nothing for years now I’m getting back to it in retirement. It’s never boring. Strangely even the night riding is not boring to me. Lol I must have a low threshold except for the kickr trainer.

over your 243 klm you would maybe have felt good then less so then maybe better. Nice average speed by the way.

Body and mind. This cycle of ups and downs is what I’m referencing in terms of the mental battle and physicality of riding distance.

I could not despite riding 300 plus a week ride bigger than 200 klm. I will need to build up and acclimate my body systems especially my gut. and my mind.

Ride smart and enjoy your distance adventures. You the bike the weather and the land moving as one. And then it starts to rain..

Thanks braddah. A nice sprint at the end of that ride helped to bring the average up a bit. It would be great to hear you getting into some of the long races. We only live once eh? The ultra endurance races around the world definitely need more recumbents in them anyway :D And I agree with what you wrote earlier about eating real food. Sugar and caffeine work in a pinch, but a fueling strategy with real food is what I am going after. Luckily I have an iron stomach since I will be having to visit convenient stores enroute due to my terrible planning.
 

Frito Bandito

Zen MBB Master
Larry's point about being able to pick it back up is interesting because that is sort of my situation now. I did a really hilly 300k brevet recently and my longest ride in over a year was 34 miles and overall, almost no volume. But, I had been backpacking some. It is partly that the "legs have memory" but probably also that with experience one learns not to be stupid. You learn how not to push too hard and ride within your limits. This is how I use a power meter on longer events, whether races or brevets. It serves as a governor. On the recent 300K, I just backed off the power for the whole ride. I would normally be one of the first finishers but it took me almost 2 hours longer, because I knew it made more sense to ride at 18-19 mph instead of 22-24 mph on the flats and to really take it easy on the difficult hills. You learn when the legs are just being a little baby and not really hurting and you know when to tell them to shut up.

If you are going to do like a 24 hour RAAM qualifier, they are often on a loop course of maybe 50-60 minutes in length. If you can have support to be ready each lap to hand a bottle of your preferred drink, this will save an enormous amount of time vs going to your cooler, unclipping, getting the bottle, getting back on course, etc.

Hydration and nutrition is something you have to figure out. I need less fluid than other riders. I need less food than other riders. If I am riding at 20 mph on the flats, I burn between 450-500 calories per hour with a body weight of 180-190 lbs but this is only taking me 115-120 watts or say maybe 40-50% of FTP. This is about all I can hold after 12 or hours. At that percentage of FTP, most of the power coming from burning fat. I might only need to replace 200 calories per hour of carbs. This is not too hard to do if you are diligent. Some riders can process up to 350 calories per hour of carbs, whether in drinks or snack type stuff. You want to frequently eat a little bit of what you like or what your body is telling you to eat. Frequently might be every 20-30 minutes bit into something. Or, you may learn that you like energy drinks or homemade brews using maltodextrin or the like. If you are getting sick to the stomach, there are four likely reasons. 1. Too much fluids. 2. Too much food. 3. Overheated. 4. Lack of fitness

I would encourage you to look into randonneuring if not already a member. The standard distances are 200, 300, 400, 600km. Completing all four distances makes you a Super Randonneur. The events are usually in late winter into early summer and are spaced pretty nicely to build long distance endurance. You can pretty much ride them at your own pace and they are non competitive, so, they give you a good chance to work out nutrition, pacing, riding at night, lights, etc. I used to be able to do 200 mile training rides but it takes a lot of motivation and at my age, I don't do it. A brevet on the other hand can get me out there. YMMV.

The biggest bang for your performance buck are wheels and tires. Ride fast tires. Don't be afraid of fixing a flat. If you have to, practice fixing them. GP5000 over Gatorskins can save you something like 20-30 miles on a 24 hour event, please don't make me calculate, plus actual Crr on roads is much higher than those we read about on steel drum. Also, on a fast bent like V20, your speed is sufficient to justify fast wheels in the 50-80 mm depth range....if you can handle them in wind.....most can.

For whatever reason, the first few hours riding (only on a bent), I have to pee like a racehorse. Maybe 6 times per hour. This is a disaster in a race. I use a condom catheter that attaches over the "device" and has a removable connection to a tube. On country roads, I just wait for a 1% downhill and pull the tubing out to water the grass on the side of the road as I glide along. I apologize if this grosses anyone out. Urine is sterile. After some hours, my kidneys behave and I can remove the thing.

I am not sure of my calorie consumption as I am just getting into +200km rides, but I will be learning more as I start covering longer distances. I've got a 50mm front and an 80mm rear now that would work. I have changed the bearings in them a couple of times, and usually get about 10,000-12,000km out of a set, but even faster wheels might find their way onto the V20. The bad thing about having different depth wheels is the stem length on the spare tubes. Too long for the 50mm and drag increases. Too short for the 80mm and you are screwed. At first, flats on the front wheel had me nervous because I didn't know how to get the wheel back on the bike efficiently. But that is not an issue now.
 
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