A4X speculation

Which features will be available on the A4X

  • Adjustable seat angle

    Votes: 9 90.0%
  • 650b Wheels

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • > 50mm clearance

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Front suspension

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Rear suspension

    Votes: 10 100.0%
  • Carbon Fork

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Electric Assist Optional

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Electric Assist Standard

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • More Mount Points than you would want

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • Long Wheel Base

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Total voters
    10

CruzRider

Well-Known Member
Since Cruzbike have teased the A4X more than a month in advance, let’s have some fun!

teaser

original discussion
 
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CruzRider

Well-Known Member
I have always thought that the q45 with electric assist is the holy grail of cruzbike casual riding (non-racing). It overcomes the start problem. I just put some money into upgrading my T50e to tubeless. That bike will come close to holy grail, just missing the rear suspension. But if the predictions here are true, I will buy a A4X.
 

llavalle

New Member
Guess cat's out of the bag now :

$600 USD more than a Q45 for :
  • New frame design with better suspension (assumed better)
  • More adjustment for the seat with the bottom rail
  • more tire clearance
  • SRAM NX 1x12 instead of Microshift 1x11
  • Croder modular crank (unsure what that brings here - more expensive than a square taper for sure but what is the gain?)
  • Cheaper mechanical brakes (Tektro TRP vs Rever MCX)
  • A lot more mount points : rear swingarm, under seat, under the under of the bike
Oh and you can get just the frameset and build it yourself unlike the Q45.
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
FWIW everyone - the A4x other than being my baby (in large part) to get it built and here - is SWEET. Sweet sweet sweet. My 100% biased opinion. The increase in the cost (tariffs, shipping, development cost, improved components, etc) are not as high as I thought when translated to the retail - so price is very good IMHO.

Note:

  • New frame design with better suspension (assumed better)
The new suspension is far better. Two shock positions available for linear and progressive tune. The location of the pivot behind the rider (as opposed to underneath) makes a huge difference between a suspension and a suspension that does the proper task. Most comfortable of our bikes by far hands down.
  • More adjustment for the seat with the bottom rail
It has front to rear adjustability - not a "huge" adjustment but helpful
  • more tire clearance
Basically the same as the Q here (Same fork) but the stock tire is a 47c
  • SRAM NX 1x12 instead of Microshift 1x11
Much nicer
  • Croder modular crank (unsure what that brings here - more expensive than a square taper for sure but what is the gain?)
Croder sells aftermarket crak arms in different lengths and rings. It is also a GXP 8 bolt style ring, so you can easily change ring sizes or get their adapter to use standard rings. Leagues better than a square taper BB. It is also very light. And the folks at Croder in Taiwan are awesome.
  • Cheaper mechanical brakes (Tektro TRP vs Rever MCX)
I would say these are a wash, but give the edge to TRP
  • A lot more mount points : rear swingarm, under seat, under the under of the bike
Many more mounts. Built for hauling.

Frameset available to build your own adventure hauler.

Also:

- Superior kickstand and mount. Kickstand (standard styles work) works with the underseat rack. A double kickstand off the shelf can be used.
- Just about the same weight as the Q
- Viscoset is set for a firmer "max" tune. This bike is EASY to ride.
 

llavalle

New Member
  • New frame design with better suspension (assumed better)
The new suspension is far better. Two shock positions available for linear and progressive tune. The location of the pivot behind the rider (as opposed to underneath) makes a huge difference between a suspension and a suspension that does the proper task. Most comfortable of our bikes by far hands down.

  • Croder modular crank (unsure what that brings here - more expensive than a square taper for sure but what is the gain?)
Croder sells aftermarket crak arms in different lengths and rings. It is also a GXP 8 bolt style ring, so you can easily change ring sizes or get their adapter to use standard rings. Leagues better than a square taper BB. It is also very light. And the folks at Croder in Taiwan are awesome.
Good point on the suspension. I never tested a Q45 so maybe I assumed it was working better that it does ! My old Optima has the pivot point just behind the seat - never realized that it was that much forward on the Q45

As for the crank I guess I might have sounded wrong : I know that square taper is old tech. Even the Shimano Octa link has been here for decades. I've never had to change the length of my crank on any of my bikes (no knee problems... So far!). So the modular part didn't appeal to me.

I did change chain rings but the equipment I had mostly used a regular 5 bolt in 110 or 130mm BCD. Never really used any SRAM components (so no experience with the GXP center mounts)

I'm guessing the A4X is equipped with similar dropout as the Q45? i.e. 12x100mm thru-axle in the back?

One thing I forgot to mention - seat angle adjustment - seems more upright(44-77) than the Q45(30-53). I really like that.

Btw, for the brakes, I meant cheaper in the literal sense as in price not in quality. In here at least (Canada) the Rever are almost 2x the price and folks prefer it because you can use shimano pads which are easier to source (around here at least)

I love the idea of the frameset though. Because I'm in Canada, paying tariffs again on a whole bike is sad, especially if you plan to switch to hydraulic brakes and / or swap one wheel with a hub motor. I guess shipping of only the frameset is cheaper too. I'd probably use a Shimano 1x12 with hyperglide+ (the ones with the directional chain) since I assume the fork doesn't have a universal dérailleur hanger for a SRAM GX?. Tried a SRAM NX eagle once and I wasn't impressed. In fact a Microshift 1x12 felt a lot smoother!

Speaking of the frameset - the images show the headset in there. Does it come with it? Trying to do a ballpark cost comparison
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
Good point on the suspension. I never tested a Q45 so maybe I assumed it was working better that it does ! My old Optima has the pivot point just behind the seat - never realized that it was that much forward on the Q45

As for the crank I guess I might have sounded wrong : I know that square taper is old tech. Even the Shimano Octa link has been here for decades. I've never had to change the length of my crank on any of my bikes (no knee problems... So far!). So the modular part didn't appeal to me.

I did change chain rings but the equipment I had mostly used a regular 5 bolt in 110 or 130mm BCD. Never really used any SRAM components (so no experience with the GXP center mounts)

I'm guessing the A4X is equipped with similar dropout as the Q45? i.e. 12x100mm thru-axle in the back?

One thing I forgot to mention - seat angle adjustment - seems more upright(44-77) than the Q45(30-53). I really like that.

Btw, for the brakes, I meant cheaper in the literal sense as in price not in quality. In here at least (Canada) the Rever are almost 2x the price and folks prefer it because you can use shimano pads which are easier to source (around here at least)

I love the idea of the frameset though. Because I'm in Canada, paying tariffs again on a whole bike is sad, especially if you plan to switch to hydraulic brakes and / or swap one wheel with a hub motor. I guess shipping of only the frameset is cheaper too. I'd probably use a Shimano 1x12 with hyperglide+ (the ones with the directional chain) since I assume the fork doesn't have a universal dérailleur hanger for a SRAM GX?. Tried a SRAM NX eagle once and I wasn't impressed. In fact a Microshift 1x12 felt a lot smoother!

Speaking of the frameset - the images show the headset in there. Does it come with it? Trying to do a ballpark cost comparison
Same dropouts as the Q and S as far as size. So all models are not through axle 12mmx100mm and 12mm x 142mm

Frame set includes the headset installed.
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
Kudos to @Robert Holler and the Cruzbike team on the launch of the all new bike!

Very insightful post above on the design choices.

Will the Q45 stay in the line up?
For the Q45. It is a GREAT bike. I have one personally (with 406 wheels and 2" Big Apples it is my neighborhood cruiser) and I rode the Q45 on RAGBRAI last year. It was very comfy.

That said, it is a legacy OG bike as far as the main frame and the design is pushing the limits of time. The frame goes back to the Quest in 2009. That is 17 years for basically the same main frame. It has seen some updates over the years for sure, but still. It is a 17 year old design.

Back before it was the Q45, it was the Quest, then the QX100. One day I decided to slap a V20 front end on the QX100 frame "just to see" and it was elevated to another level - hence the Q45 was born. But the bones are all still a 17 year old Quest main frame - in essence.

For me, having this opportunity to bring something fresh, a bit more aggressive looking, 100% new, and with more forethought into its intended purpose (suspension performance, etc) is exciting. I am hoping it reaches all of our OG audience and new audiences too. It is a NICE ride.

To me, the Q45 is like a good trusty 2009 Toyota Camry with all the upgrades you can throw at it over the years. That's all great, but it's 2026 - and the A4x is like sliding out of that 'ol Camry and into a new Polestar 3 EV. Once you do it.... well it's kinda over.

The Q45 is a nice ride and is a tough customer to beat - but it's the subtle things that really make the A4x shine in the right environment back-to-back.

The A4x is not a "replacement" to the Q45 per-se, and it also isn't an "evolution" of the Q45 - it is a 100% new frame with different performance and intent put into the design. They are similar for sure, but the A4x refines all those things the Q45 gets used for (gravel/touring/hauling) with more intent.

One example - the rear suspension. On the Quest/QX100/Q45 it is great. It works for comfort, but is not really tunable for actual real suspension. The Q rear design was more intended for packing. The rear swingarm is - l o n g - 24.5" from the rear axle to the pivot. That is a huge leverage on the shock. The position of the pivot is near right under the riders rear end. This is great to "fold" the frame into two nice halves with one QR (which was the original reason to even have the suspension: for "folding") but that long arm and pivot location is less ideal for real world suspension performance on actual terrain.

The A4x design we reversed that thinking and led with the performance of the rear end first and worried about the packability later. The swingarm is shorter - 16" from the axle to the pivot and better located in space to actually act like a suspension. Straight tubes are also easier to manufacture and get nice and straight and looks more modern. The good news - it is still pretty much just as packable as the Q.

As far as more Q45's - that will depend on how many bikes sell, and what we can get made by our manufacturing partners based on that - and what we have room for.

One last thing - the A4x IS the easiest Cruzbike to ride IMHO that we have ever made. It nearly rides itself. Even first timers can take to this machine. Like here we have my friend Tina (one of the reps at Croder) riding the first fully built almost-completed A4x while I was in Taiwan as we did the last tweaks before building. On her first try - she had never sat on any recumbent before and was a nervous wreck when she sat on it - (she didn't want to crash it) and she took right off like a pro. That is a win. The old narrative of "Cruzbikes are hard to ride" has been long dead in my opinion as we have evolved the designs but the A4x puts the final nail in the coffin of that myth.
 

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Greg S

Well-Known Member
I have to say I was rather surprised to see that the A4X is quick release. That seems an odd choice for a newly introduced bike.
 

Henri

scatter brain
With how I am planning my fleet*, I really don't need the A4x, but I can't stop myself from thinking about it. I estimate the frame could really fit aesthetically with wheels like these**:


*) One folding bike would be for general urban and short commuting, one very fast bike (the V20c) would be for long distances and the thrill of speed, one cargo would be for transports (either multi track flat bed or longtail with sideloaders) or just lazily using the motor ;) , one fatbike would be for challenging terrain and occasionally lots of snow (fully suspended if I can manage). I am rather thinking about combining fat and cargo. And with mostly two sets of wheels per bike I wanted to use them each in a more and a less extreme setup. Now you come with this and it looks like a good middleground, capable of urban areas and challenging terrain (and urban terrain is also often challenging!) and quite a bit of cargo capacity. Would certainly be a great only bike and is probably a nice gap filler.
I just wish it had more tire clearance or extra suspension in the front. If it was a fatbike, I'd get it immediately. Like this I would test ride it, if I could (Northern Germany or Spezialradmesse), but not just order it unridden. :/

**) On my V20c I have the more aerodynamic version and love the looks.
 

Greg S

Well-Known Member
The Quick releases are for the back of the seat! Wheels are through axle.
Thanks. The specs don’t say and I couldn’t tell from the drive side photos. Saw the two QR’s in the frame kit so I assumed they were for the wheels. Edited to add: now I see the post from Robert above saying the dropouts are the same as the Q and S.
 
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CruzRider

Well-Known Member
One last thing - the A4x IS the easiest Cruzbike to ride IMHO that we have ever made. It nearly rides itself.
This is very exciting to hear. I always thought people should buy the Q for their first Cruzbike bike instead of the V or the S. They would feel so much more comfortable and ease in to it. I have all 3.

@Robert Holler You sold me on the A. Who can help me get a pre-pre order in? Looking for bragging rights on first frame order.
 

Henri

scatter brain
I always thought people should buy the Q for their first Cruzbike bike instead of the V or the S.
But many of us already have a recumbent and wanted to add what might be the fastest or others come from roadbikes and only ride bikes if they go fast.
Especially here in Europe it's the first one, because we have our own fixed bottom bracket recumbent brands.
 

Greg S

Well-Known Member
I always thought people should buy the Q for their first Cruzbike bike instead of the V or the S.
You’re absolutely right that it would be easier/more comfortable to start on a Q rather than V or S however, speaking only for myself, I would much prefer to struggle with something that will meet my needs/wants for a long time rather than start on something that I’d outgrow or discard.

I don’t do gravel, “adventure” riding (whatever that is!) or touring. I’m a dyed in the wool roadie. Yeah, the Q would have been much more comfortable to learn on and a much shorter learning curve but I’d likely sell it in no time and buy an S or V since they suit my style of riding better. I bought my V first then my S so I jumped straight into the deep end of the pool but wouldn’t have done it any other way.

That’s just me though. I can certainly see how some people might become frustrated at the learning curve and give it up (I see bikes for sale here periodically that say as much).
 

Henri

scatter brain
Also depends in your personal learning adaptness. I was confident, this was something I could learn. (Had a little contact with a FlevonRacer before.) And I was right, I was testing my local steep uphill on the first day.
Worst possible outcome would have been that I don't manage and I'd have to buy a Q45 ot T50 additionally as a short term training piece.
No reason to start with the one that I might not need at all.
 

Boreen bimbler

Well-Known Member
I was always tempted by the Q. And the A4x looks even better. But I have too many bikes and too little cash so can only dream. If there was a SH market here in Ireland for cruzbikes I would think about replacing my S40 with one as speed dosn't matter to me and it would be a bit more versatile off road. So I'll just dream and enjoy what I have.
 

CruzRider

Well-Known Member
I don’t do gravel, “adventure” riding (whatever that is!) or touring. I’m a dyed in the wool roadie. Yeah, the Q would have been much more comfortable to learn on and a much shorter learning curve but I’d likely sell it in no time and buy an S or V since they suit my style of riding better.

The Q (and I presume the A) can be just as fast as the S, by leaning the seat way back and ideally switching to a different seat. We all know it cannot measure up to a V. But the A/Q can certainly grow with you.

I envy those that know exactly what bike they want. For the rest, perhaps the question is: are you a casual rider or a racer? That should lead you to the A/Q or the V. But fortunately (or unfortunately), we are spoiled by choices - the S and the T. For me, The A/Q is the easy recommendation to make though.

I do hate seeing people giving up because they started off on the wrong bike. It is not because the bike is hard to ride, but because you bought “too much” bike. It happens on DF bikes too.
 

llavalle

New Member
I just realized something.

Complete bikes have 13% tariffs applied to them when getting into Canada.

Bike parts? 5%.

Just tested that with your website and it matches with a T50 for example.

That's 8% difference that is just "burned" for no reasons. I don't mind letting Cruzbike take a cut on components but paying extra duties "just because" feels such a waste. I was a bike tech in college and still have all my tools. The only thing I wouldn't take now is building a wheel from scratch (just don't have the patience :D). I could also pick a another 1x12 drivetrain

So looking at a frameset. Looks like to complete I'll need :
-Set of wheels (24in, 26in or 650b)
-Tires
-Disk brakes with rotor and levers
-Grips
-Drivetrain : rear derailer, chain, crank and chainring + shifter

Couple of questions :
  • What's the BB spec needed ? BSA Threaded but what's the width? 68 or 73? (or more?).
  • What kind of mounts for the brake calipers? Flat or post mounts?
  • Wheels : what is the stock rim width? Model of the Chosen hubs? (if buying the full bike).
  • Also related to wheels. Without going the custom built route, I can't seem to find a good source for a set of 650b wheels with 12x100 and 12x142 thru-axles. Gravel have the right hubs but almost always 700c. MTB is mostly 29in now (and usually boost). Getting 27.5 wheelset with a rear 12x142 non boost is easy but they usually come with 15x100 front hub. I know it's just a matter of putting an adapter to fit a smaller axle but I'm wonder if the frame has a notch or anything that would prevent the larger endcaps to fit? Can anyone at Cruzbike share a picture of the INSIDE of the rear "fork" ?
Reason I ask about the 15x100 is that I can get a pretty nice set of Ztto DR390 wheels with 27.5in rims and a microspline freehub for less than $300 CAD, shipped but they don't seem to offer them with a 12x100 TA, just 15x100.

Alternatively, I know that shipping a frameset + wheels means shipping a bike (so 13% duties). Could you ship the factory wheels separately? I'm guessing Chosen makes micro spline free hubs that I could swap. Might not be possible put thinking out loud right now

One last thing - the A4x IS the easiest Cruzbike to ride IMHO that we have ever made. It nearly rides itself. Even first timers can take to this machine. Like here we have my friend Tina (one of the reps at Croder) riding the first fully built almost-completed A4x while I was in Taiwan as we did the last tweaks before building. On her first try - she had never sat on any recumbent before and was a nervous wreck when she sat on it - (she didn't want to crash it) and she took right off like a pro. That is a win. The old narrative of "Cruzbikes are hard to ride" has been long dead in my opinion as we have evolved the designs but the A4x puts the final nail in the coffin of that myth.

That's really cool to hear!
 

Robert Holler

Administrator
Staff member
This is very exciting to hear. I always thought people should buy the Q for their first Cruzbike bike instead of the V or the S. They would feel so much more comfortable and ease in to it. I have all 3.

@Robert Holler You sold me on the A. Who can help me get a pre-pre order in? Looking for bragging rights on first frame order.
The order page goes live on the 17th. If you are on the email list you can get in on a few bonus "coupons" (not sure for the frame set though) so it is worth to sign up for that email ASAP.
 
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