Amputee Cruzbike Riders?

[vmi1056]

Hello everyone, new to the forum and I was advised by Maria to throw this issue/question out to the members of the Cruzbike nation.

Just a little background, in 2016 I was struck by a distracted driver who failed to yield at a stop sign and as a result of the accident, had to have my left leg amputated below the knee, among other injuries I sustained. As my rehab progressed, my physical therapist recommended I try cycling as a great low impact workout and pointed me in the direction of recumbent trikes and bicycles, due to the limited bend I have at the knee on my prosthetic side. I started on recumbent trikes and have been on a two-wheel recumbent bike for a year now and loving every minute of my Schlitter Freestyle.

Going from being an active husband and dad to instantly not being able to perform the simplest of tasks on my own, was a huge adjustment for me both physically and mentally. Cycling has done so much for me emotionally and I have been totally bitten by the cycling bug and ride whenever I can. All that being said, I have had it in the back of my mind to try a Cruzbike and am drawn to the S40. There are a couple of gentlemen in my area that have Vendettas but the recline looks to be a bit aggressive for my taste.

Maybe it is all the “love” that Cruzbike owners seem to have for their rides, maybe it’s a challenge that I feel I need to tackle, as most things have been as I adapt to being an amputee. Whatever the case, my question to the Cruzbike nation is, are any of you out there amputees that ride Cruzbikes? And if so, what are the challenges you had learning to ride? Any one out there know any amputee Cruzbike riders that are not on the forum? Any issues you guys anticipate me having, not having a ton of “feeling” from one of my legs? For reference, I am able to put some power through my prosthetic side (not as much as my whole side) and I do currently ride with clipless pedals. I appreciate any insight you guys can provide. Thanks so much everyone!

Vaughn

 

[cpml123]

Welcome Vaughn! Your courage and tenacity really inspires me.
I am not an amputee, so I can only guesstimate what may happen when you ride a Cruzbike. I don't think there will be any problem riding since you already ride a recumbent. The only possible disadvantage of unequal power from both feet I guess is that it may be very hard to ride with hands off and steer with your feet. Some people can do it. I still can't after riding 3 years. Otherwise, I think it's all good!

 

[Frito Bandito]

Welcome to the club Vaughn. Sorry to hear of your accident, but I absolutely admire your determination to keep active. I have a V20, but everything I see about the S40 is that it can be a very fast bike that has a ton of versatility that makes it punch well above its weight.

During some of my rides I do see some athletes with amputations or medical conditions that limit the use of one or some limbs and my utmost respect goes out to them. They are the true John Wicks regardless of which brand of bike they choose.

 

[benphyr]

They said it better than I can. I am thrilled at your resiliency and it inspires me.

That being said, a power disparity between left and right will certainly affect any motions as I am sure you know better than most. With respect to Cruzbike, the moving bottom bracket (mbb) (which I assume you have researched - if not ask or read up on it) will mean that you will have to deal with the imbalance in one of the following ways (or more - this is just what my experience can think of right now on first thought):

1. Status quo: Schlitter - no mbb, no Cruzbike: pedal stroke variance only has minor impact on steering due to frame flex, weight shifting, etc.
2. Equalize power: Lower your leg power on the whole side to match the prosthetic side so as to balance the steering input.
3. Equalize power input: Counteract higher power of whole side with upper body push and pull.
4. Equalize power output (power application to ground): Add steering/balance influence on power output.
5. Electric assist programmed to increase power to prosthetic part of crank stroke to match whole power stroke. (A challenge to develop but could be pretty cool application and could be used to help others with power imbalance too.)

All 2-5 of the above options would probably be incorporated by the time you feel comfortable using the mbb format.

I would imagine you will have more challenges than if you had begun learning Cruzbike before the accident. I also am positive that you have way more flexibility, adaptability, tenacity, patience, resilience, balance, mental strength and courage than you would have at that time.

I agree with your synopsis that the S40 (or Q45 / T50) platforms would be better at least to start with because they are more upright which results in: easier to learn for most (similar to other modes of transport), better visibility, more closed hip angle, less change of back angle from sitting up to sitting /laying down, better arm / upper body strength application, etc.

I think in your situation I would investigate the possibility of a Thor seat or similar as an upgrade because it will support you in to the seat better in the side to side direction. (The stock seat is pretty flat and can be a little easier to slide sideways on which an imbalance in power could exaggerate.) More info:
https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/thor-easy-gs-medium-mount-to-s40.13634/page-4
http://www.thorseat.eu/en/type-of-recumbent-seats/recumbent-seat-model-easy-gs/

You will love the Cruzbikes and the Cruzbike family.

Welcome and please ask any questions you may have.

 

[LarryOz]

Hi Vaughn,
Welcome to the Cruzbike tribe. All great comments so far from everyone.
My 2 cents:

Power:
I think over time you will find that you will be able to apply pretty equal power to both sides as riding recumbent seems to not use the calf muscles as much. I any case the body is so wonderful at adapting with training. I had ACL repair back in 1982 (When they still thought it was good to leave you in a full leg cast for 12 weeks!) My left thigh and calf atrophied horribly, so bad that to this day neither are the size of my right, even after pretty extensive PT.
When I started riding Cruzbikes (about 6 year ago) I was really curious if my left leg was "pulling its weight" so I bough dual sided power meter pedals. Much to my surprise my leg consistently pushed more power than my right. It was not much, but 52%-48% on average. That blew me away, but more interesting: I never really noticed in my riding that one side was contributing more power than the other, so no I did not ride in circles or notice I always was leaning one way or the other. If you have the cash I would invest in some dual power meter pedals. Even with your "Schlitter Freestyle" since you can just move then around to whatever you end up riding. These pedals also have the ability to give you real time feedback on you power stoke, power, foot position, etc. It might be helpful to you if you if you want to work on your left side.

Seat Angle:
It is easy to temporarily adjust the seat angle so you can test ride a V20: Go to Lowes or HomeDepot and buy some of that 2" rigid foam. Shape it in a wedge the length of the top part of the seat (I did this for the really steep hills when I did RAAM (for the power difference) and it really worked well). Taper it from a point to the 2" for the length of the seat and that should just about do it. Just stick it behind the seat pad and tap the edges with duct tape so it won't slide on you.

I highly recommend getting acclimated to the FWD-MMB format of Cruzbike with a higher seat angle. It is really just about re-training your mind and muscle memory to the pedal steer of the bike what you are riding. A T50 would be even better to ride if you find someone with one of those.

I live on Hilton Head Island, SC so if you are close to me I invite you to come by. I have a T50 and V20 (and wedges too), power meter pedals (and other cool stuff too) - I'm sure I can get you riding down the street on a Cruzbike in no time!

 

[vmi1056]

Welcome Vaughn! Your courage and tenacity really inspires me.
I am not an amputee, so I can only guesstimate what may happen when you ride a Cruzbike. I don't think there will be any problem riding since you already ride a recumbent. The only possible disadvantage of unequal power from both feet I guess is that it may be very hard to ride with hands off and steer with your feet. Some people can do it. I still can't after riding 3 years. Otherwise, I think it's all good!

Thanks so much for the feedback. Equaling out that power seems to be a common theme. Might have to take Larry's advice and invest in a set of dual power meter pedals. Setting up a test ride in a couple of weeks so we will see how that goes.

 

[vmi1056]

Thanks so much for the responses and advice everyone.

I tried to respond to individual comments but for some reason it was not allowing me to do so, forum rookie!

Larry,
It sounds like you can relate to one leg being disproportionately bigger than the other. It’s funny, my cycling shorts are tight on one thigh and loose on the other. Like yours, my left thigh atrophied so much during my recovery. I have about a quarter of a calf left but I’m so thankful they were able to save my knee, that has been a real game changer for me. I think the dual power meter pedals would be a worthy investment because I am always curious exactly how much power my prosthetic side is producing. At the moment, my only indication that my right side is doing most of the work is when I start to feel fatigued on my right side, then I realize the left is not pulling its weight.

I appreciate the offer to head up to Hilton Head, I was actually up there in 2019 visiting family so you wouldn’t have to twist my arm to come back. I live in North Florida and Maria and Jim are actually a few hours south of me at the moment and have offered to give me a lesson (talk about great customer service). Jim and I are meeting in a couple of weeks to give it a go! I think Jim is looking forward to the challenge of teaching his first amputee how to ride a Cruzbike just as much I am! I will let you know how that goes, should be fun!

Benphyr,
I have done a done of research and your points 2,3, & 4 will all be implemented at some point until I figure out what works the best and I adapt to the way it works for me. I also appreciate the seat information, I didn't think about that but it makes perfect sense given not just a power difference but weight difference as well between my prosthesis and sound side.

 

[billyk]

Nothing useful to add except that this is a really great forum. Welcome Vaughn! Looking forward to hearing about your progress. And seeing ... you'll notice that we really like photos of these bikes in action.

 

[3bs]

@vmi1056

welcome. cool stuff. a few questions.

bad deal on the BK amp. but most of the time better than an AK, and better than a quad or dead. how much length do you have on the BK? what does your prosthetic look like and how does it function? did you retain your dominant leg or are you relearning that as well? how are you doing at power delivery on the schlitter? are you having any knee pain on the BK side when you have applied power over longer rides?

fundamentally to me, the function of the prosthetic is where 95% of your issues are solved or mitigated. a special riding device may be the ticket. in fact, since you live in north florida, i would also suggest giving JM a call as he may be able to build you a fixture with real bike parts and carbon fiber. he needs challenges.

i also am a firm believer that the brain will teach your body to adjust to the power disparity, but that we can do some mechanical tweaking to help that along. decades ago i w0rked for an adaptive equipment company, long before there was the quality of resources, computers, engineering, and 3d printing. these days, the sky is the limit. if you are already happy on the schlitter, you already know a lot of the mechanical areas of concern and the trick of power delivery from a recumbent situation.

i am a TAB (temporarily able body), so i have no personal experience in your situation, but one of the things that i did in learning to ride a CB was to learn to pedal completely with one leg only. my purpose was to ensure that i could take off from an intersection or a stop with no control issues. this was also quite helpful when i was learning other 2w bents. so, since i was able to do it, and i am painfully uncoordinated, i am sure you will be able to do that part as well, and i would suggest you try that just so your brain understands that experience. it will help the brain create an experiential database to make you better as a rider when you are hooked up on both sides.

changing seat angle and the use of wedges and the like is super easy. i suspect that you may also benefit from some additional shoulder support as you try and really power up on one side. i could see doing a single side upside down padded U that would attach over the back of the seat top and be a slight arc over your outer shoulder at the end of the trapezius and allow you to press harder.

i am in Michigan, so too far for you to stop by unless of course you want to escape the heat....i have a v20, a t50 and a sofrider with different sized wheelsets, so its pretty easy to learn the fwd mbb thing.

 

[vmi1056]

@vmi1056

welcome. cool stuff. a few questions.

bad deal on the BK amp. but most of the time better than an AK, and better than a quad or dead. how much length do you have on the BK? what does your prosthetic look like and how does it function? did you retain your dominant leg or are you relearning that as well? how are you doing at power delivery on the schlitter? are you having any knee pain on the BK side when you have applied power over longer rides?

fundamentally to me, the function of the prosthetic is where 95% of your issues are solved or mitigated. a special riding device may be the ticket. in fact, since you live in north florida, i would also suggest giving JM a call as he may be able to build you a fixture with real bike parts and carbon fiber. he needs challenges.

i also am a firm believer that the brain will teach your body to adjust to the power disparity, but that we can do some mechanical tweaking to help that along. decades ago i w0rked for an adaptive equipment company, long before there was the quality of resources, computers, engineering, and 3d printing. these days, the sky is the limit. if you are already happy on the schlitter, you already know a lot of the mechanical areas of concern and the trick of power delivery from a recumbent situation.

i am a TAB (temporarily able body), so i have no personal experience in your situation, but one of the things that i did in learning to ride a CB was to learn to pedal completely with one leg only. my purpose was to ensure that i could take off from an intersection or a stop with no control issues. this was also quite helpful when i was learning other 2w bents. so, since i was able to do it, and i am painfully uncoordinated, i am sure you will be able to do that part as well, and i would suggest you try that just so your brain understands that experience. it will help the brain create an experiential database to make you better as a rider when you are hooked up on both sides.

changing seat angle and the use of wedges and the like is super easy. i suspect that you may also benefit from some additional shoulder support as you try and really power up on one side. i could see doing a single side upside down padded U that would attach over the back of the seat top and be a slight arc over your outer shoulder at the end of the trapezius and allow you to press harder.

i am in Michigan, so too far for you to stop by unless of course you want to escape the heat....i have a v20, a t50 and a sofrider with different sized wheelsets, so its pretty easy to learn the fwd mbb thing.

Thanks so much for the feedback. I have about 1/3 of a calf left and my prosthetic has a carbon fiber socket with other stainless steel components and a fairly stiff foot, which I prefer to the springy ones. I do experience some pain in my knee on that side but it goes both ways and it my "indicator" that I am relying on one leg too much over the other one, that really helps me with a even and smooth spinning motion. Not sure how much actual power I'm producing but am curious to find out. My left leg is significantly smaller then my right so I suspect I have uneven power but I might take Larry's advice and invest in a set a power pedals to confirm. Not who JM is in North Florida. Fabricator?

 

[vmi1056]

Alright guys, the date is set! Jim and I are set to meet next Sunday to give it a shot. I will keep you guys posted on how it goes.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Good luck Braddah. Would love to see you getting your roll on and to have you here as a regular.

 

[castlerobber]

Not who JM is in North Florida. Fabricator?

John Morciglio. Builder of fast recumbents.

 

[vmi1056]

John Morciglio. Builder of fast recumbents.

Yes, heard the name and seen some of his work, didn’t know he was in North Florida, thank you.

 

[3bs]

JM is north centralish. Does a lot of carbon and likes to make stuff. I figured if you prosthetic or seat was not capable he might be able to make something bike specific.

 

[vmi1056]

He would be a great resource and might enjoy the challenge of doing some custom work if I can’t find something “off the rack” that fits. 8 days and counting until test ride.

 

[Jim Parker]

It was my pleasure to meet Vaughn today. I've taught hundreds of people to take their first ride on a Cruzbike, but never before an amputee. Vaughn did better than 85% of the newbies that I have introduced to a Cruzbike. He's interested in an S40, but I didn't have one of those here in Florida so he rode my Q45 with 24" wheels. After I adjusted the bike to fit him, he started riding in a straight line after a couple of no-pedaling rolls down a short slope. Great job, Vaughn.

Jim

 

[3bs]

jim and i have started a new sub group... the small wheelers. i doubt this will result in wheel envy.

 

[vmi1056]

Mission Accomplished! I think the smile on my face says it all. I’m smiling for a couple of reasons, first, I proved to myself and maybe a few others that I could indeed ride a Cruzbike with a prosthetic leg. And secondly, it was a heck of a lot of fun! After a few trips up and down the street, I told Jim that I could have ridden that bike all day. The more I rode, the more comfortable it was becoming and this was only after a short while. I can only imagine how much progress I can make if I have more days to practice.

A couple of observations about my test ride. I figured out really quickly that the “death grip” I had on the handlebars, which I told myself I would not do but did it anyway, certainly had an impact on getting the bike to go in a straight line. Same goes for the pressure I was putting on the pedals. I naturally and without thinking about it, put more pressure on the prosthetic side to ensure my foot does not come off the pedals. I could feel that extra pressure feedback immediately in the bars. I will need to work on upper leg control more on that side. The solution for me was nice and easy pressure through the hands and through the feet. Smooth pedal cadence and the bike just leveled out, just had to relax.

The other thing that helped was keeping my head up and looking where I wanted to go instead of down at my feet. Most of us that have ridden anything on two wheels know that if you look at it (fixate on it) you will hit it. I have on a number of occasions when riding seen something on the trail or road and in my mind told myself, “don’t hit that” but ran over it anyway because I (eye) fixated on it. Because I have zero feeling in my prosthetic foot, I found myself looking down a little too much to ensure I had proper foot placement on the pedals. I quickly learned to give a quick glance down, get my head up, look up the street, and my body started to figure things out without me over thinking the foot situation. This is a case where I think clipless pedals would be a great help, once set, prosthetic foot will be in the right place ready to go. I could also feel my right arm fatiguing more then my left so my right side was definitely working harder to keep my left prosthetic side in check.

All in all, I had a great experience and I can’t thank Jim enough for giving up a couple of hours of his day to get me rolling and answering all of questions. The more trips up the street I made, the more comfortable the bike was becoming and I left with a strong sense of, “we can do this!” Thanks to everyone for your feedback as well, it may not have all made sense when I was reading it but as soon as I jumped on the bike and eventually started to pedal, your advice became crystal clear.

 

[Sonnybea]

It was my pleasure to meet Vaughn today. I've taught hundreds of people to take their first ride on a Cruzbike, but never before an amputee. Vaughn did better than 85% of the newbies that I have introduced to a Cruzbike. He's interested in an S40, but I didn't have one of those here in Florida so he rode my Q45 with 24" wheels. After I adjusted the bike to fit him, he started riding in a straight line after a couple of no-pedaling rolls down a short slope. Great job, Vaughn.

Jim

View attachment 10807

What part of Florida I live in broward county he's more than welcome to try it