Are there new V20s coming out?

[Kufman]

What is the weight of the frame only kit, with CF seat+ cushion, and handle bar for the V20 and the S40, as my Silvio V2.2 with front /rear suspension + cf seat+ cushions +handle bar is 6.5 kg (14.3 lbs)

That sounds extremely light. Do you have any pics of your setup?

 

[rx7mark]

If you have a removable rear triangle like on the Silvio V2.0 and S30, it will fit into a 26"*26"*10" bike box.

Hi Super Slim,
The very reason I am building a Silvio 2.0 as my retirement bike. My wife and I plan on traveling and of course I want to bring a Cruzbike along.

But I thought about putting a big S&S fitting in the middle of a T50, so it could break down for travel. But alas it can not be retrofitted as I mentioned.

Mark

 

[benphyr]

Hi Super Slim,
The very reason I am building a Silvio 2.0 as my retirement bike. My wife and I plan on traveling and of course I want to bring a Cruzbike along.

But I thought about putting a big S&S fitting in the middle of a T50, so it could break down for travel. But alas it can not be retrofitted as I mentioned.

Mark

@rx7mark wouldn’t a Q45 suit your use case better than a breakable T50? Moot point because you have better in the silvio 2 - curiosity question

 

[benphyr]

@3bs are you going to go into production on this or is this like magic. Custom bike to be made in limited numbers based solely on preorders?

 

[rx7mark]

@rx7mark wouldn’t a Q45 suit your use case better than a breakable T50? Moot point because you have better in the silvio 2 - curiosity question

I already have the T50, so I was just checking on feasibility. The Silvio will be a new build up for me, starting from a used frame.

But yes. If the wife is interested, a Q45 is in her future. She can learn on my T50, once the Silvio is rideable.

Mark

 

[benphyr]

I already have the T50, so I was just checking on feasibility. The Silvio will be a new build up for me, starting from a used frame.

But yes. If the wife is interested, a Q45 is in her future. She can learn on my T50, once the Silvio is rideable.

Mark

Nice hand-me-downs!!

 

[3bs]

@benphyr first I will finish the test bed. I will likely use abs or some thermal plastic to create the boom shroud (new technical term) and see how it behaves is a cross winds etc. Then I will make or have made a real one. Then I can perfect the concept. Then I will see if Jm or cb want to play. If not then I will see about molds again and if I can get like 20 frames. I am pretty sure if I do it right, selling 20 frames or full bike won’t be a big deal.

 

[Bill Wightman]

first I will finish the test bed. I will likely use abs or some thermal plastic to create the boom shroud (new technical term) and see how it behaves is a cross winds etc. Then I will make or have made a real one. Then I can perfect the concept.

You are describing part of my tinkering dream retirement. I have a few years left before that. Don't forget after you have an aluminum bike frame put together but before you paint it that you that you can come in with linear tows of carbon fiber and stiffen any tubes that are too bendy. just be sure the application surface has a good clean anchor pattern. Probably cover it with weave to look good as the last thing. I made a catamaran hydrofoil out of carbon fiber tows many decades ago. It was super slippery in the water and stiff like a little piece of steel.

 

[Mathew Fy]

I thought about putting a big S&S fitting in the middle of a T50, so it could break down for travel.

Bike Friday’s Travel Tandem uses a take-apart tubes held together by sleeves. Maybe that’s what you’re looking for

 

[super slim]

Bike Friday’s Travel Tandem uses a take-apart tubes held together by sleeves. Maybe that’s what you’re looking for

Excellent idea!!!!!

 

[super slim]

okay to keep this rolling i will give you a little more of my past work. i talked to two carbon companies some time ago about doing a carbon fiber frame set and mold. this would be pre magic on the time line. after riding and taking apart studying several JM bikes, playing with zokra clone before i made it frankentrike, and riding and playing with my m bikes, and my v and my t, i had some ideas that i wanted to make into a bike, and my carbon skills are amateur at best.

i ended up with two possible directions. first was to work on the v20 to make three versions. 1. low racer; 2. trike; 3. trans portable with improvements. the second direction was to go carbon and do a whole new bike, or do a carbon bike.

since i only had my v, and no extra frameset, i figured i would do the other stuff first. looking at all i had worked on, i thought the JM hammerhead was my best test mule. so if i simplified my thinking, i wanted to take the hammerhead, a bike i consider to be brilliant and a decade ahead of its time, and still superior in principle to almost everything out there and eliminate what i consider to be its three issues and add one new feature:. 1 go from 650 c wheel set up to 700c and be able to accommodate 30's, 2. move steering back to the top of the steer tube; 3. decrease trail by making head tube angle more upright. and make a 2 piece bike that i can transport.

i worked on the transport issue, and solved that problem in concept, i thought i would be able to do this. however when i got the quotes back, the best price i got was 10,000.00 base, and that was with very limited changes and no engineering, and that was really conditioned upon them doing this as a gap project if they had any dead time,and they were totally booked working on a sailboat project that was taking up 98% of their company at the time. so i put that project on hold and went to work on other projects, such as frankentrike, and frankenvelo. JM has been a great help, as he had a little extra time. The Parkers have been very supportive of my experiments as well.

so, i picked the idea back up earlier this year, and started to do some experiments to try and get the steering where i wanted it and to change the bike back to 1x. but then i got distracted by my day job, and some erosion issues at home, so, at present it is handing in the bat cave with the drive line apart. i got a new bottom bracket shell, and the rest of my steering test pieces so that i could work my ideas about steering and how one would make a bike that could have enough adjust ability to fit a decent range of riders. of course magic has come out of the JM/CB skunkworks, and i can understand many of its elements, but it is a little too much race for me, and i think the hammerhead is prettier and perhaps even more aero, but its also more suited to my riding angle.

but, i think the solution is near. it is another cruzbike jm mishmash, this time at my hands not theirs.

the picture i have provided is an early set up of the hammerhead from May to demonstrate. for the end product, imagine that the boom tube is lower but not horizontal, and fully enclosed, with a smooth topside and slabsides following the tube diameter, with the handlebar coming out of the back of the front end at the top above the steertube, on a short adjustable tube. all cables run inside of the frame. rear brake cable will be a two piece with quick release at the separation point. handle bar connection will be standard so you can run whatever you want. i would like it to be 1x 11 or 1x12if i can get the range i like. if not it will be 2x.

a. transportability: the bike will be 5 pieces. 2 wheels, 1 seat, the back bone and the front end. the bike will divide at the head tube. it will unfasten at the top and the tube will come out. the bearing sets will stay with the backbone. the handbar will stay with the front end and detach to go sideways with cables all still attached.
b. adjustment for size of rider and seat angle: 1. sliding bottom bracket shell. 2 seat movement front and back over backbone. 3. small sleeved boom within front end attaching to handlebar.
c. trail and wheel size will reset with new frame construction.
d. storage box behind the seat
d. weight. 21.5 lbs right now as it sits in the picture, i so think it will be right about that depending on driveline and brakeset

so that is it for that project. it sits waiting for me to get it done to finalize that it all works. i will ride the final mock up for a while to sort other ideas out and then i will figure out who can do the carbon work for me. jm doesn't have the old hammerhead molds any more, but he and i work pretty well, and the hammerhead was his creation. maybe we can call the bike "H2 -oh!" (get it? fish - hammerhead, water - H2O)

keep in mind that this project is a parallel project to the v20 projects. for now i wont go into a long discussion about my work on the v20. i really need to finish testing ideas on the t50, then score another frameset or a used v to build a test mule.

oh and i have a day job.

Is that a straight steerer tube with the handle bar clamp welded to the steerer tube, and a clamp near the BB, so an overlong steerer tube can be used, and the excess is safely out of the way???
A steel steerer expanding internal clamp + rubber cone shaped tube end could be fitted to the steerer tube end to strengthen it and stop wind noises!

 

[super slim]

That sounds extremely light. Do you have any pics of your setup?

That is the weight of FRAME ONLY, No wheels, brakes, chain derailleurs, shifters

 

[3bs]

@super slim it is a cb v20 boom, and three cb steertube boom brackets. the front of the tube is attached to the carbon, and at the steer tube i used a t cycle glilde flex stem. the handle bars are these cool FSA bars that spread very nicely similar to wood choppers but a lot cheaper. this allows me to adjust all over the place. up down front back, etc. quite amusing.

@Bill Wightman if i were retired i would be a full time tinkerer in a lot of disciplines..... right after i got the three years worth of chores on my wife's list that seems to be growing faster than i can get them done.

thanks to robert and cb for selling me extra brackets.

 

[bazzawill]

This has been super interesting to catch up on. I have always thought of a bespoke frame in Titanium. That is 1 piece boom to save weight, and then as mentioned as flat disc brakes, thru axles, closed underseat storage, etc but some really interesting ideas and prototypes here.

 

[Frito Bandito]

@super slim it is a cb v20 boom, and three cb steertube boom brackets. the front of the tube is attached to the carbon, and at the steer tube i used a t cycle glilde flex stem. the handle bars are these cool FSA bars that spread very nicely similar to wood choppers but a lot cheaper. this allows me to adjust all over the place. up down front back, etc. quite amusing.

@Bill Wightman if i were retired i would be a full time tinkerer in a lot of disciplines..... right after i got the three years worth of chores on my wife's list that seems to be growing faster than i can get them done.

thanks to robert and cb for selling me extra brackets.

I hear that! If I could weld then I would be doing the same. Making a titanium triangle and a 1-piece boom would likely be my first project for my V20.

 

[Enid]

Titanium is not a great material for the boom, as it is flexy. The triangulated boom is part of what makes the V20 fast despite its lower CdA than say a M5 CHR. The problem is that it is not as stiff as it could be and certainly not as light. It would not be expensive to make a bunch of carbon front booms in incremental sizes the way that road bikes are made. This would make the bike stiffer, lighter, and thus faster. But as a mail order company, there would need to be some other way of adjusting slightly. One way would be to provide a layered seat pad that could be built up or reduced.

A carbon frame would certainly reduce the weight. The leading factories in China are shaving 20% off the already featherweight frames. The 2020 Trek Emonda is much lighter than the 2019 with just a few modifications to the carbon layup. The triangulated frames are getting close to 500gms!

That said, the frame of the V20 does not have to be stiff, only the boom. This is a big advantage over a road bike, which requires a stiff bottom bracket and a stiff rear triangle. None of that matters on the V20 because the drive train is on the front of the bike.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I'm not an engineer, or very smart for that matter. I just like titanium hahaha. In 1 way I'd appreciate the lighter material but since I don't do much climbing it isn't as much of a priority. A CF front triangle would be nice, especially if is more aero than the current aluminum one.

 

[Bill Wightman]

This is a big advantage over a road bike, which requires a stiff bottom bracket and a stiff rear triangle. None of that matters on the V20 because the drive train is on the front of the bike.

The V20 is a long and heavy bike compared to the more vertical one-piece DF designs. While I am able to go sprint off the front for a quick HIT moment ( love to do that at 32 mph and just disappear for a while in front of the group...) I still wish that at lights and hills that I was not working a little harder than everyone else to get the extra 10 lb+ of weight rolling (sounds like a rich person problem...). It is hard to keep the V20 stiff considering the length and adjustability incorporated. I think that the front triangle can be stiffened and lightened with dedicated non-adjustable (but exchangeable) triangulation directly off the fork crown and a more conventional steering bar arrangement clamped directly to the steerer tube. This would also lower the handlebars leaving them closer to the shoulders and more aero. I use a carbon bull bar and my hands grip downfacing brake lever assemblies. This keeps my shoulders, arms, and crank shaft all in one direct line. So even though I ride a full disk front and back all the time there is never an issue in strong gusty winds because of the almost direct-line linkage. The steering bar flexes a lot in heavy gusty conditions. Because there is no adjustability in the V20 frame it would be a welcome design upgrade to incorporate carbon fiber stiffness, ride attenuation, and storage as is currently designed into the recent Bacchetta Carbon Trike 2.0 body.

 

[DavidCH]

So... guess I might be a little more radical.

I would do away with the front tubular design.

I would offer front assembly, including chainstay, in one piece that was aerodynamic in 6 different sizes.

I would try and get rid of the great big boom window between boom and front tyre. As it's all one piece it would be a lot firmer and easier to assemble.

Instead of the boom being tubular it would be upside down elongated heart shaped in order to cut through the air like butter or like a snow plough pushes the snow each way as it goes forward.

 

[ed72]

Instead of the boom being tubular it would be upside down elongated heart shaped in order to cut through the air like butter or like a snow plough pushes the snow each way as it goes forward.

Would steering be tricky when flow detaches?

I always wondered how magic does it in gusty winds.

You might be onto something there.