Bottom Bracket Suggestions?

[ratz]

The couple of rides did something ... However crank doesn't spin like in the video... Guess either I get the tools and do it myself or it goes back to the LBS.

Just out of curiousity; you: (1) removed the chain before testing; (2) made sure the front triangle is square and not over-tight. You can test that by completely loosening the chain stay cup clamps; spin should be super long then; after than you can judge if you are over tightening by repeating the spin test as you tighten the clamps.

 

[DavidCH]

Just out of curiousity; you: (1) removed the chain before testing; (2) made sure the front triangle is square and not over-tight. You can test that by completely loosening the chain stay cup clamps; spin should be super long then; after than you can judge if you are over tightening by repeating the spin test as you tighten the clamps.

Yep... Took the chain off and span, but it wasn't totally free but better than it was after the install.

Not sure of the mystery of the dried milky fluid shown on the photo that drained from the BB.

The Bearings sound a little when I spin so not sure about things.

Will check on point 2 when I get back.

 

[DavidCH]

After loosening the chain stay cup clamps fantastic, smooth as silk.

I have tightened it but a little concerned about it not being overtight.

Do the chain stay cup clamp gaps in the photo look about right?

 

[ratz]

After loosening the chain stay cup clamps fantastic, smooth as silk.

I have tightened it but a little concerned about it not being overtight.

Do the chain stay cup clamp gaps in the photo look about right?

View attachment 3215

If the clamps can "impede" the spin; then you are warping/crush the metal of the BB cups. That's more than plenty tight and backing off to free spin point is fine. You can use this interference/interplay to learn what too tight is.

 

[DavidCH]

I notice too that I don't have sore knees after 70km so I think that's down to the Enduro XD-15

 

[DavidCH]

If the clamps can "impede" the spin; then you are warping/crush the metal of the BB cups. That's more than plenty tight and backing off to free spin point is fine. You can use this interference/interplay to learn what too tight is.

Does anyone use loctite blue on these clamp screws?

 

[super slim]

Yes definately

 

[marshall2389]

Yes definately

Does loctite work for those bolts after multiple readjustments? I have not put loctite on mine because I thought it might only work the first time. Then, after the first unscrew and screw in for adjustment, the loctite seal would break and it would no longer work.

 

[ratz]

Does loctite work for those bolts after multiple readjustments? I have not put loctite on mine because I thought it might only work the first time. Then, after the first unscrew and screw in for adjustment, the loctite seal would break and it would no longer work.

Red is permanent. Needs 509f of heat to loosen
Blue is single use

But you can use the white marine caulk. Only comes in big tubes. It performs like blue and often survives 3-4 removals and reinstalls.

 

[DavidCH]

I decided not to put loctite on as I might sell the bike next year... It's something I monitor consistently with the state of my rims as I clean the bike down after a ride.

 

[tiltmaniac]

If only RWC had them in stock again!

 

[ratz]

If only RWC had them in stock again!

Enduro has been having quality control problems. They are the OEM for the XD-15 that RWC was kitting.

We used this version on RAAM on Larry and Kevin's bikes; and I have them on our new V20 setups here for PB and me. Works really good.
http://enduroforkseals.com/id484.html

 

[tiltmaniac]

Enduro has been having quality control problems. They are the OEM for the XD-15 that RWC was kitting.

We used this version on RAAM on Larry and Kevin's bikes; and I have them on our new V20 setups here for PB and me. Works really good.
http://enduroforkseals.com/id484.html

Unfortunately I'm stuck with the old-style bottom-bracket mounts/rings/whatever on my S30, so the rounded shoulders seem like a poor idea.
If/when I get my hands on an upgrade for the S30(s) that let me mount rounded-shoulder BB, I'm there...

Edit: And Darn!

 

[Black Hawk Down]

We used this version on RAAM on Larry and Kevin's bikes; and I have them on our new V20 setups here for PB and me. Works really good.

Bob -- I looked at the link and it's for SRAM. I have Ultegra cranks. My Ultegra BB bearing didn't fit the V20 as the cups are too small for the chain stay clamps. I had to MacGyver it with some rubber shims. It seems to be working, but I'd like to replace the bearing with one of these nice ceramic ones. I don't want to make the same mistake and get one with the small cups. Can you recommend one that would work for my situation? Thanks.

Note: my first post... probably breaking some rules. Ooops!

 

[ratz]

Bob -- I looked at the link and it's for SRAM. I have Ultegra cranks. My Ultegra BB bearing didn't fit the V20 as the cups are too small for the chain stay clamps. I had to MacGyver it with some rubber shims. It seems to be working, but I'd like to replace the bearing with one of these nice ceramic ones. I don't want to make the same mistake and get one with the small cups. Can you recommend one that would work for my situation? Thanks.

Note: my first post... probably breaking some rules. Ooops!

They make a Shimano version and the cups are big enough, several people here have used them. If in doubt email there support email address and ask for clarification. Tell them you came referred from here, they are use to our needs.

http://enduroforkseals.com/id198.html

 

[Doug Burton]

Okay, I'm a little late to this discussion.

Are you sure the noise was coming from the bottom bracket? In the Silvio 1.0/1.5 bikes, we got complaints about a ticking noise that was synchronous with the pedaling cadence. It eventually turned out that it was from the fasteners that connected the pivot clamp to the steerer tube - the bolts with the big circular head. Putting a washer under the fasteners and re-torquing them made the noise go away. All those parts are in front of you hearing-wise when you ride, and the noise travels along the tubes, making it hard to pinpoint.

If your new bottom bracket didn't fix the noise, this is something else to look at. This PSA brought to you by the Silvio Historical Society and the Old Guys Guild.

Cheers,

Doug

 

[Black Hawk Down]

They make a Shimano version and the cups are big enough, several people here have used them. If in doubt email there support email address and ask for clarification. Tell them you came referred from here, they are use to our needs.

Thanks for the reference Bob. I did email them last week but have not heard back. It's ok as I decided to hold off for a while. I just put this bad boy together and have lots of work ahead before I'll notice the difference with a better BB.

Bill

 

[Black Hawk Down]

By Your command.

Ratz,

I followed your advice and bought theese:

RWC OUTBOARD BOTTOM BRACKET w/ANGULAR CONTACT
CH SERIES CERAMIC HYBRID BEARINGS

I installed them today. When spinning the cranks, they spun about the same as the slow one in your video. I loosened the chainstay clamps and tried again. A little longer spin, but only a little longer. I loosened the cranks and allowed more space between the chainring and the bearing. Same with the other crank. Just left everything loose. A little longer, but still very few turns before coming to a stop. Next, I loosened the bottom bracket clamps. Now it's spinning even longer, but nothing like the one in the video. Certainly, I can't keep everything loose. When I tighten up everyting (uncomfortably low torque), It's back to poor spinning. I think the bearing is defective or broken. Maybe I cranked on the cups too hard. I don't have a cup tool that I can use my torque wrench with.

Here's a video of spining the cranks with everything loose:

Here's with everything (barely) tightened down:

What do you think? Should I return them and put my Shimano Ultegra BB back in, or is this the best I can expect?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[ratz]

Hi Bill,

First thing the BB in my video is a whole tier higher than the one you have; they are just impossible to get XD-15; I have the XD on my older trainer bikes and But I do have the one you have on my my race bikes. I Just don't have a video of them. Your's isn't too bad in those videos. but they could be better even with the clamps tighter.

Part of the trick with shimano hollow tech is how you torgue the cranks; you probably have too much left right torque.

Here are the tricks

1) Don't use plastic spacers use metal ones
2) Put two wave washers on the chain ring side.
3) Use metal spindle spacers after the wave washer to remove play. you can get 24mm x 1mm spacers from RWC if they didn't include them depending on the kit you selected. only use spindle spacer on the crank side
4) If you get to much right bias on the chain line then add CUP spacers to the left side and remove spindle spacers on the drive side.

When you attach the left crank arm you should be able remove all left right play in the BB by just gentlely tightend the endcap on the crank; alot of people over tighted the end cap; the wave washers provide your pre-load on the bearings you don't need to wrench the end cap tight to get preload. Using just the end cap make sure there is no left right play and the crank spins free. (((Do this with the chain stay clamps completely loose))).

If the crank doesn't spin free and there is left and right play you need another waster between the wave washer and the bb cup; once you can get ride of the play and it spins free; then crank down the compression bolt on the left crank to lock it on the spindle. This provides ALL the holding force not the end cap. ((End cap is just for setup, and could actually be removed once set)). Now with the crank spinning free; tighen the chain stay clamps until it internferes with the spinning of the cranks; when tighten those clamps slows the spin, back them off a quarter turn. If they are tight enough to deform the cups they it's more than tight enough to hold the front gemotry. When tightey the cup clamp make sure the Quick release is open to that you tight them square; if they are off camber they they will bind the crank. After they are tight set the quick release; and then finish by loosing the boom clamp to relieve any twist in the boom.

Complete all that and it will be gold. You really only have to futze with it once and then it's all good. And it does take paitence. We did this procedure to all the RAAM bikes; on Maria's first pedal in the parking lot after this tweak her repsonse was Wow it Pedals itself.

This could be clearer but I'm still tight on time; just got back from a week business trip; read that a couple time and then ask questions.

 

[Black Hawk Down]

Hi Bill,

First thing the BB in my video is a whole tier higher than the one you have; they are just impossible to get XD-15; I have the XD on my older trainer bikes and But I do have the one you have on my my race bikes. I Just don't have a video of them. Your's isn't too bad in those videos. but they could be better even with the clamps tighter.

Part of the trick with shimano hollow tech is how you torgue the cranks; you probably have too much left right torque.

Here are the tricks

1) Don't use plastic spacers use metal ones
2) Put two wave washers on the chain ring side.
3) Use metal spindle spacers after the wave washer to remove play. you can get 24mm x 1mm spacers from RWC if they didn't include them depending on the kit you selected. only use spindle spacer on the crank side
4) If you get to much right bias on the chain line then add CUP spacers to the left side and remove spindle spacers on the drive side.

When you attach the left crank arm you should be able remove all left right play in the BB by just gentlely tightend the endcap on the crank; alot of people over tighted the end cap; the wave washers provide your pre-load on the bearings you don't need to wrench the end cap tight to get preload. Using just the end cap make sure there is no left right play and the crank spins free. (((Do this with the chain stay clamps completely loose))).

If the crank doesn't spin free and there is left and right play you need another waster between the wave washer and the bb cup; once you can get ride of the play and it spins free; then crank down the compression bolt on the left crank to lock it on the spindle. This provides ALL the holding force not the end cap. ((End cap is just for setup, and could actually be removed once set)). Now with the crank spinning free; tighen the chain stay clamps until it internferes with the spinning of the cranks; when tighten those clamps slows the spin, back them off a quarter turn. If they are tight enough to deform the cups they it's more than tight enough to hold the front gemotry. When tightey the cup clamp make sure the Quick release is open to that you tight them square; if they are off camber they they will bind the crank. After they are tight set the quick release; and then finish by loosing the boom clamp to relieve any twist in the boom.

Complete all that and it will be gold. You really only have to futze with it once and then it's all good. And it does take paitence. We did this procedure to all the RAAM bikes; on Maria's first pedal in the parking lot after this tweak her repsonse was Wow it Pedals itself.

This could be clearer but I'm still tight on time; just got back from a week business trip; read that a couple time and then ask questions.

Thanks Ratz. I think it was clear, except on all the washers/spacers stuff. Currently, I am using the two spacers that the RWC instructions said to use. Not sure if they are plastic. I don't know what "wave washers" (lock washers?) or "metal spindle spacers" are. RWC provided additional (3) thick spacers (metal) but are for mountain bikes, I think. These could be the "Metal spindle spacers" that you are referring to except they are 3 mm thick and the ID is about 35 mm. 24mm x 1mm sounds like the two spacers that I used. Can't find the instructions right now. I suppose if I had it disassembled right now, I'd know if I have "CUP Spacers". Maybe all this will make more sense if I take it apart while reading your instructions. Will have to wait a week or two due to work and other commitments.

I tightend the end cap using a plastic (Park Tool?) tool that is attached to the opposite end of the Cup wrench. Finger tight until the fingers hurt. Maybe too tight, but after first assembling the bike and riding it a few times, I noticed that the end cap had backed out on it's own and almost was lost. I didn't use the tool that time. Just my fingers.

I appreciate all your advice and instructions and will take another crack at this later. Will report back then.