Bullhorn and Dropbar Options

[Eric Winn]

Yes and reversing the sides

Yes and reversing the sides where the levers normally go results in the lever contours "fitting" into your grasp really well.

But you are right, adjustment takes a little finesse to get acceptable brake feel. I would like to find a solution with this kind of fit but where the lever pulls the cable and gives great brake feel.

-Eric

 

[trplay]

What is the plan for mirrors

What is the plan for mirrors in the cockpit depicted in post #73?

 

[ratz]

Mirrors

I'm a long time user of Spy Mirrors so far I've positioned them in the following places for tests:

1) the non taped area
2) as far out as to the elbow.
3) on that adapter bracket you can see
4) on the boom.

On the trainer tell me a little but not enough. Play with them on the road only a touch so far. I will need some more road time (go go gadget weather) to test which I prefer. The bars don't need to be taped that far in; they could and may very likely end at the bend. I just didn't want to cut the tape yet. I wasn't sure at the time if I'd use the inner had position. Initial tests indicate it will be awhile before I have the balance to ride that inside grip.

I also wear a Mini Take a Look Mirror on my helmet; that really is my primary mirror. I use the spys to grab my attention from my peripheral vision when stuff sneaks up on my and to watch blind spots. I have a habit of having two; one for close blind spot and one for distance that comes from my trike we'll see if I need to on the Silvio or not.

As bifocals take hold the spy will take on a bigger roll as that Mini is a bit close to my eye.

 

[Ivan]

Ratz, I really like the look

Ratz, I really like the look of your bullhorn brifters. Great job! Cutting off the end and mounting the brifters like that is ingenious!! I think that's the first I have ever seen and I have been looking for ways to do that setup. While I am happy with my setup, I am quite tempted to try yours as the longer ride the more I want my arms straight.

 

[ratz]

what you need to know...

Ivan if you decide to do it here are the hidden things I didn't show, because they were too ugly for anything but a prototype. I was planning refining this when I do the second set and then show the cleaner way. However, I believe they are repeatable prototype that you could attempt as they are minor items and if polished it's not a far trip to a production item.

1) When you cut the bend off the bar is just a tad short at least for me; you hieght and boom angle may mitigated that.

2) The brifter clamp is mounted right at the end of the bar with only about 3mm of pipe sticking out; don't worry it is solid and isn't coming off I hung from the ceiling on mine to test and did chin ups... (ok I did two, but I'm out of shape).... Since the hood does not get torqued like it would riding on the hoods it should be fine.

3) A hard plastic/rubber pluming tube that just fits inside the bar is inserted in the end by the brifter and then cut at a 60 degree angle to complete the contour up to the rest of the plastic brifter housing. This is necessary to get a good wrap and to reinforce the housing for the torque it does infact take take. I got the pipe from home depot. this is the stuff just the wrong diameter. cost is like $1.50. I insert about 4 inches for stability.

4) A soft rubber bar end plug is cut and shaped to go into the end of that plastic pipe/tube to close the end.

5) items 3 and 4 are glued into the pipe if loose; I just use super glue for the test.

6) Wrapping with cork tape that can stretch so you can get a smooth wrap.


Thee wrapping; that's an outright pain. I will admit that it took me an ENTIRE day of staring at it to get a narrow wrap that didn't swell the grips. I must have tried 20-30 combinations; however I did figure it out. The plan is to road test it; if it pans out; I will video tape myself unwrapping it. Then we can play the video in reverse for instructions on how to get a tight and narrow wrap.

Custom made bars would be polished by:
1) A slightly longer reach. with cut down marks for shorter people just like regular bars have.
2) a premade rubber plug to put into the end of the bar to hold the tape to begin the wrap.
3) thinner bar tape; I used the cork that came with the Silvio. I think the next mil thicknes down would work better.

 

[Jeremy S]

As bifocals take hold the spy

As bifocals take hold the spy will take on a bigger roll as that Mini is a bit close to my eye.

Aren't you focusing through the mirror, not on the mirror?

 

[ratz]

Yep I'm blind

I have "multifocal" contact lens. The close to the eye mirror slows down the refocusing a far bit; if I'm tired the image gets fuzzy.

 

[Ivan]

I updated the title of this

I updated the title of this thread to reflect the excellent contributions towards innovative bullhorn setups by Ratz. The dropbar/brifte setup I have is fairly obvious, but there is much more to be explored with bullhorns!

Ratz, I am really interested now that you have a working bullhorn/brifters setup, which was something I was keen on since day 1. Very innovative!! Overall, I think I like best the ergonomics of an upside down base bar that you showed earlier on. This clever trick orients the brifters correctly and gives a nice long reach. How tall is your wife? She seems to have sufficiently long reach with your cut Deda Crono bars. I looked on eBay and AliExpress but could not find a TT/base bar that I think could be flipped nicely. Issues are any drop projecting upward when bars are flipped and cable exit holes facing upward.

 

[ratz]

Flipped versus flat

Ivan,

The reach on the Dedas is just enough, Mrs Ratz is a tall 5'7", we can get away with reach on the shortened Deda's in two different ways. For her she has short calves so the piston action of her leg does not bring her legs back as far and her boom is extremely compact. For me, I need the thinner Ventist seat pad to gain me the spacing needed, but I have a very long calf. We are also aided running 165mm crank arms. In the end that gives her a ton of clearance and me just enough; if I want to hit my leg on the shoulder bar I can; but when I pedal naturally I don't; she cannot hit the shoulder even if she tries.

The flipped bars that worked the best were the Profile Design Ozero TT. The picture in post #25 shows them installed upside down with the 100mm extension installed and the boom length set for 5'9" xseam 43 inches.

The drop in the Deda's shoulder accomplishes the same thing as a 60 mm extension does regarding the cockpit side of the equation; it gets the hands and arms lower and gets the handle bar shoulder out of the path of the arm. I can chosen to rest my forearms on the horn arm; or I can have them off the bar completely; to change the position is just a shoulder position tweak. I find that a desirable option. The flipped bars with the extension had a similar result.

Now here is the Interesting part. You would think the bend in the bar when flipped, that allows the brifter a nature install on a curved bar, would work best. But that has two side effects that need to be considered:

First to get the brifter orientated vertical enough to be a good horn to grip and pull on you have to pitch the bar upward a lot, the Ozero TT has a flat surface, like your Carbon bars, such that the upward pitch might not leave that surface in a good orientation. The T2wing is the better candidate for that reason its shoulder is round, but it's bend is sharper meaning an even higher orientation.

Second the curve pitches the brifter forward in relation to the bar. Holding that configuration in the hand it leaves the brain insisting that there should be handle bar material where the drop bend normally would continue. On the cut down deda bar which is completely straight there is no such mental component. It's a head thing, but it's there; we both noticed it, and it does play a roll in comfort and it induces some wrist bend.

I'm left thinking this works best with the brifter installed on a straight section of bar if possible.

 

[Ivan]

Great insights on mounting

Great insights on mounting them on the straight portion of the bar, Ratz. I wonder if the China company making those carbon bullhorns that are copies of the Zipp VukaBull could make one without the curve! Then we would have enough "reach" room to play with.

When I specced my build I just went for 172 cranks as that's what I use on my DF. In retrospect I should have gotten 165 to give myself more room to play with...

 

[ratz]

I have

I've got the name of one shop that will do that at Alliexpress that will do custom. I'll dig up the account name tomorrow and PM you it. I have a set of the vulka bulls they are really short; you'd need them straight and longer. they also have about a 20mm drop. Not a bad little bar, you could not cut them and use like the deda horn is too short.

 

[mzweili]

Brifters on bullhorn

Bob,
based on all your exhaustive research I ordered a Deda Crononero Low Rider 460mm wide from the UK. Mrs Ratz's set-up (pics #69) look very convincing. I will give that a try.
Marc

 

[ratz]

The waiting begins

Congrats Marc. I'll be looking forward to see if the setup can be reproduced. Be prepared for a wait, our 460's from the UK took just over 3 weeks to arrive, via the slow boat delivery method. The 440's from CA came much quicker. That should give me plenty of time to make a video of how to do the wrap before you get yours. I road on the brifter bike today when the Mrs took her first ride; very comfortable; of course I almost fell because of her smaller setup.

 

[mzweili]

wonder if the waiting ends one day

Another 15cm of snow is announced for this Sunday, lots of time left to stare on my Silvio.
Seller promised shipping by Royal Mail Airmail (Small Packets).

 

[Ivan]

Marc, I am waiting eagerly to

Marc, I am waiting eagerly to see your setup and hear your report. My past 2 rides I am imagining what my bike would feel like with bullhorn and brifter setup as the more I ride, the more I find the straight extended arm position the most favorable. While I have this position using my drop bars, it is not entirely comfortable for the hands so I have to change positions.

I believe John wrote earlier that drop bars have the advantage of more hand positions. This is true and because I have many positions for my hands they don't get pain over my century rides. However the more I ride the more I want to adopt a straight arm position which is not ideal on my drops. This also concurs with John's statement that while most people are using drops now, he foresees an increasing number adopting bullhorns. I would have never considered the Cruzbike bullhorns as my first setup as I ride in traffic, but now that I am accustomed to my ride, the Ratz bullhorn with brifters is very compelling.

 

[mzweili]

I AM WAITING EAGERLY TOO

Ivan,
for the moment I'm still waiting to get my bullhorn handlebar from the UK. Fortunately our roads start drying up, what allows me to do my initial approach to the Silvio with its stock set-up. As soon as I get the new parts installed I'll keep you posted.
As Bob reported, Mrs. Ratz encountered some difficulties on her initial road test. I would be interested to know if she accustomed to the bullhorn/brifters set-up.

 

[ratz]

Clarification

Mrs Ratz hates the cold and rode once. Other than that it has been too cold for her <42f. . On her first 15 minute test (all the time we had we have 5 kids) she did better than most beginner videos I have seen, rode 200 yards first attempt, she got mad because she wasn't perfect, that is about her not the bike. We are waiting on a ventisit seat, because she keeps getting fouled by the bottom seat pad. I road the brifter bike myself it is real nice but set a little small for me,but I can extrapolate on the setup. I did almost crash because I was showing off and the short boom got me. The brifters are definitely working and are smooth, but my bar ends are also working great, and I like bar ends the more I ride them. I would call both setups a large success. Once it warms up I will get her results posted.

 

[mzweili]

Deda handle bar modification

Bob,
I just got my Deda Crononero Low Rider.
Did you cut it at the place shown on this picture?

 

[ratz]

The other side

Marc,

I cut them on the other side of the hole leaving a small "U" opening. That made it easier to fit and contour the insert I made for the end of the bar for wrapping; and left a tiny bit up upturn for the brifter housing to bite into for security.

The brifter tensioin clamp went just to the right of that line you have drawn about 1-2 cmm; and gave it very solid mounting with the brifter plastic going just past the end of the bar.

I cut the PVC/Rubber insert end at a 60 degree-ish angle so that the short edge of the insert meets up with the "U" and adds about 2-3cm to the top of the bar and ends flush with the end of the brifter plastic assembly.

Most important trick is mount the brifter as far forward as is SOLID.