ReklinedRider
Zen MBB Master
(rec rack)
bike is in the back of my truck in that pic attatched with a Rec Rack. Don't have a link handy.
KM
bike is in the back of my truck in that pic attatched with a Rec Rack. Don't have a link handy.
KM
Bullhorn and Dropbar Options
- Thread starter BentBierz
- Start date
Andrew 1973
Zen MBB Master
Flipped Gary's II
My Gary Bar isn't that long. I suspect mine might have been cut; I'll have to ask the original owner. I didn't mind the set-up at all, although my brake/shift levers were oriented "upright" on mine. I thought that switching to to a bullhorn would be better, but I ended up feeling that the straight arm position diminished my ability to control the bike properly.
ReklinedRider
Zen MBB Master
Gary on....
Yeah from your pic it looks like it was cut a good bit. Even having been shortened I can see how, with the bar rotated to point completely straight ahead, it could make you feel like your arms were too straight. I don't want mine too straight either, for the same reason you mentioned. Mine are only really straight when I lean/push way back in the seat. Otherwise they have (to me) just the right amount of bend, and I feel the ergonomics are better for pulling or pushing on the bars. I've thought about cutting mine off about like yours, leaving the brifters and bar position the same, but for the now i like them like they are. Also like that my hands are on top of the bar, not underneath like when i had the bars in standard drop config. Have you considered setting up a bullhorn bar like Ivan did?
Yeah from your pic it looks like it was cut a good bit. Even having been shortened I can see how, with the bar rotated to point completely straight ahead, it could make you feel like your arms were too straight. I don't want mine too straight either, for the same reason you mentioned. Mine are only really straight when I lean/push way back in the seat. Otherwise they have (to me) just the right amount of bend, and I feel the ergonomics are better for pulling or pushing on the bars. I've thought about cutting mine off about like yours, leaving the brifters and bar position the same, but for the now i like them like they are. Also like that my hands are on top of the bar, not underneath like when i had the bars in standard drop config. Have you considered setting up a bullhorn bar like Ivan did?
Andrew 1973
Zen MBB Master
Bullhorn
I have tried it with a bullhorn I had on hand. Because of the difference in the seating position from the original Silvio to the later designs, I cannot effectively emulate the position; it feels as if I am reaching to far upward for the controls.
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Since I get queries on where I am on the Handlebars these days I thought I would do a quick and short summary post.
This season I am committed to a full on test season only riding dropbars. I plan to use the experience to compare against last year where 90% of my riding was in bullhorns. My initial reaction is that while the dropbars give me more hand positions; none of them lock me into the bike with as solid a connection as the bullhorns did. There is definitely more "wobble" in my ride if I over relax. This may just be me adapting to the wider hand positions which obviously have more leverage for steering input. I also see more wind drag; but the 55mm extension has negated much of that on the Silvio by improving my front profile, meanwhile that hasnever been a problem on the Vendetta. Time will tell.
So here is the unofficial summary in one spot. These are just my opinions your experience will be your own.
Dropbars
For Dropbars I'm still following Jim Parker's original recommendation. I have option (1) on my Vendetta and I am commited to testing option (3) on my Silvio for the entire season. The bullhorns are on the bench in the workshop. All three drop bar require you to cut off the ends after you get the brifters finalized I leave 120mm of bar past the brifters but that is dictated by hand size.
Dropbars by priority
1) If you can find them used Origin 8 Pro Gary OS Bar
2) If you don't mind shimming the bar clamp; the Gary-2 Bar is the same as #1
http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=5317
3) If you do not want to shim the clamp and you can not find #1 then the Gary Sweep OS
is the same bar in an anodized finish But it is WIDER by 10mm per side. If you are 5'7" and
slender it feel super wide, but not as wide as the stock stuff. If you are taller or heavy built these
are probably the ticket.
http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=9918
BullHorns - Bar End shifters
I still believe the type of bullhorn is dictated by the height of your handbar clamp relative to your body. Body dimensions play a huge roll here. If the clamp is on a level with or below your sternum then a straight bullhorn like the Cruzbike one will work nice. If the clamp is higher than your sternum then you will likely find that your hands are too high; and that you will desire a way to lower them. To that end you have two options. Option (1) add an extension 100, 150, or custom "mm" to lower the clamp height. Option (2) use a bullhorn with a drop shoulder that is equal to the reduction you need.
BullHorns Straight by Priority
1) Cruzbike brand ones. Not sure if they are still available the do not show in the online store but, I'm guessing there is inventory if you ask.
2) Deda Elementi Cononeroteam bar - For slender riders these will work. If you are over 5'10" and bulky the 440mm outisde width will be cramped. Good option for sledder folks and great for petite ladies. There are plenty of brands just like this, but only a few with 31.8mm clamp sizes.
http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/46-crononeroteam
3) Profile Design T2 wing - if you prefer a slight bend at the end of the bar then these work great. Again only up to 440mm wide so make a tighter cockpit. http://www.profile-design.com/product/base-bars/t2-wing/
Bull Horns Drops by Priority
This is a good solution if you find the stock setup too high for you; and the 100mm extension makes the cockpit to closed or the bars too low. Essentially this lowers the bar; leaves the feet lower; and leaves the cockpit open since the stem clamp remains higher. This is a good solution for larger folks including those self described as having an Aero belly. Last season while out of shape these bars gave me a low arm angle and still left enough room for a water bottle below the boom. A 100 mm extension by contrast was too closed and I couldn't comfortably fit in the cockpit. The number one problem with these bars is finding some that are wide enough for bigger people. Bullhorns are made for pursuit bikes and the UCI dictates a max width of 460mm.
1) Crono Low Rider AeroBar - These bars have a 60mm drop built into the bar. For arm position this lowers them the equivalent of installing a 60mm extension. These bars can still be found in the 460mm width if you hunt around web stock. http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/45-crononero-low-rider
2) Fyxation Rodeo Pursuit Bull horn. A 40mm drop but narrow at 420mm width. Good for tall and skinny folks.
http://www.fyxation.com/collections/handlebars/products/31-8mm-rodeo-pursuit-bullhorn-bar
BullHorns Brifters
The final setup is bullhorn brifters this is where you install brifters on to the ends of bullhorn bars and let the brifter become the horn. This has a lot of advantages and is my preferred bull horn at the time of this writing.
Bull Horns Brifters by Priority
1) Crono Low Rider AeroBar - These bars have a 60mm drop built into the bar. For arm position this lowers them the equivalent of install a 60mm extension. These bars can still be found in the 460mm width if you hunt around web stock. If you have no extension or a custom extension under 100mm these are probably the ticket. You do need to cut off the curved end of the bar to install the brifters and that shortens the reach http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/45-crononero-low-rider earlier in this post I detailed installing them and several others have included there identical setup.
2) Profile Design T2 wing installed upside down - this works good if you already have an extension installed or have a Vendetta with a BB height in the upper third of the range. The Curve make installing the brifters very easy. Again only up to 440mm wide so make a tighter cockpit. http://www.profile-design.com/product/base-bars/t2-wing/
3) Deda Elementi Cononeroteam bar - These will work similar to #2 and give you a little more reach but the flat bar makes the brifter angle steeper.
http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/46-crononeroteam
Summary
My preferences by bike setup
This season I am committed to a full on test season only riding dropbars. I plan to use the experience to compare against last year where 90% of my riding was in bullhorns. My initial reaction is that while the dropbars give me more hand positions; none of them lock me into the bike with as solid a connection as the bullhorns did. There is definitely more "wobble" in my ride if I over relax. This may just be me adapting to the wider hand positions which obviously have more leverage for steering input. I also see more wind drag; but the 55mm extension has negated much of that on the Silvio by improving my front profile, meanwhile that hasnever been a problem on the Vendetta. Time will tell.
So here is the unofficial summary in one spot. These are just my opinions your experience will be your own.
Dropbars
For Dropbars I'm still following Jim Parker's original recommendation. I have option (1) on my Vendetta and I am commited to testing option (3) on my Silvio for the entire season. The bullhorns are on the bench in the workshop. All three drop bar require you to cut off the ends after you get the brifters finalized I leave 120mm of bar past the brifters but that is dictated by hand size.
Dropbars by priority
1) If you can find them used Origin 8 Pro Gary OS Bar
2) If you don't mind shimming the bar clamp; the Gary-2 Bar is the same as #1
http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=5317
3) If you do not want to shim the clamp and you can not find #1 then the Gary Sweep OS
is the same bar in an anodized finish But it is WIDER by 10mm per side. If you are 5'7" and
slender it feel super wide, but not as wide as the stock stuff. If you are taller or heavy built these
are probably the ticket.
http://www.origin8.bike/product-description/?prod_model_uid=9918
BullHorns - Bar End shifters
I still believe the type of bullhorn is dictated by the height of your handbar clamp relative to your body. Body dimensions play a huge roll here. If the clamp is on a level with or below your sternum then a straight bullhorn like the Cruzbike one will work nice. If the clamp is higher than your sternum then you will likely find that your hands are too high; and that you will desire a way to lower them. To that end you have two options. Option (1) add an extension 100, 150, or custom "mm" to lower the clamp height. Option (2) use a bullhorn with a drop shoulder that is equal to the reduction you need.
BullHorns Straight by Priority
1) Cruzbike brand ones. Not sure if they are still available the do not show in the online store but, I'm guessing there is inventory if you ask.
2) Deda Elementi Cononeroteam bar - For slender riders these will work. If you are over 5'10" and bulky the 440mm outisde width will be cramped. Good option for sledder folks and great for petite ladies. There are plenty of brands just like this, but only a few with 31.8mm clamp sizes.
http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/46-crononeroteam
3) Profile Design T2 wing - if you prefer a slight bend at the end of the bar then these work great. Again only up to 440mm wide so make a tighter cockpit. http://www.profile-design.com/product/base-bars/t2-wing/
Bull Horns Drops by Priority
This is a good solution if you find the stock setup too high for you; and the 100mm extension makes the cockpit to closed or the bars too low. Essentially this lowers the bar; leaves the feet lower; and leaves the cockpit open since the stem clamp remains higher. This is a good solution for larger folks including those self described as having an Aero belly. Last season while out of shape these bars gave me a low arm angle and still left enough room for a water bottle below the boom. A 100 mm extension by contrast was too closed and I couldn't comfortably fit in the cockpit. The number one problem with these bars is finding some that are wide enough for bigger people. Bullhorns are made for pursuit bikes and the UCI dictates a max width of 460mm.
1) Crono Low Rider AeroBar - These bars have a 60mm drop built into the bar. For arm position this lowers them the equivalent of installing a 60mm extension. These bars can still be found in the 460mm width if you hunt around web stock. http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/45-crononero-low-rider
2) Fyxation Rodeo Pursuit Bull horn. A 40mm drop but narrow at 420mm width. Good for tall and skinny folks.
http://www.fyxation.com/collections/handlebars/products/31-8mm-rodeo-pursuit-bullhorn-bar
BullHorns Brifters
The final setup is bullhorn brifters this is where you install brifters on to the ends of bullhorn bars and let the brifter become the horn. This has a lot of advantages and is my preferred bull horn at the time of this writing.
Bull Horns Brifters by Priority
1) Crono Low Rider AeroBar - These bars have a 60mm drop built into the bar. For arm position this lowers them the equivalent of install a 60mm extension. These bars can still be found in the 460mm width if you hunt around web stock. If you have no extension or a custom extension under 100mm these are probably the ticket. You do need to cut off the curved end of the bar to install the brifters and that shortens the reach http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/45-crononero-low-rider earlier in this post I detailed installing them and several others have included there identical setup.
2) Profile Design T2 wing installed upside down - this works good if you already have an extension installed or have a Vendetta with a BB height in the upper third of the range. The Curve make installing the brifters very easy. Again only up to 440mm wide so make a tighter cockpit. http://www.profile-design.com/product/base-bars/t2-wing/
3) Deda Elementi Cononeroteam bar - These will work similar to #2 and give you a little more reach but the flat bar makes the brifter angle steeper.
http://www.dedaelementi.com/WEBSITE/index.php/en/handlebars/item/46-crononeroteam
Summary
My preferences by bike setup
- Vendetta Bullhorn - Profile Design T2 Wing upside down with Brifters
- Vendetta Drop bars - Gary 2 OS with or without the shim. (the narrower bar is worth the shimming on the V).
- Silvio Bullhorn - Stock no Extension - Deda Low Rider Bullhorn Brifters
- Silvio Bullhorn - with 60mm-100mm Extension - Profile Design T2 Wing upside down with Brifters
- Silvio Drops - Stock no Extension - NA haven't found one I like
- Silvio Drops - with 60mm-100mm Extension - Gary 2 Sweep
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LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
This is sure is a LONG thread!
Nice summary Ratz - sure saves time not having to go back through "9 pages" of posts!
I've got a set of the Profile Design T2 Wing I may try this summer when I get a chance. So much other stuff to test though. XQL rings, various cranks lengths, various seat reclines. Where do I stick this on my list? I might be 90 when I get it all done! haha Not to mention anything and everything else that comes up between now and then! Mostly I just want to cheat the wind and go fast...
Nice summary Ratz - sure saves time not having to go back through "9 pages" of posts!
I've got a set of the Profile Design T2 Wing I may try this summer when I get a chance. So much other stuff to test though. XQL rings, various cranks lengths, various seat reclines. Where do I stick this on my list? I might be 90 when I get it all done! haha Not to mention anything and everything else that comes up between now and then! Mostly I just want to cheat the wind and go fast...
mzweili
Guru
after adding a 100mm chainstay extension, I installed the DEDA Team handlebar. I accustomed quickly riding on rollers. Today I'm going to ride this setup for the first time on the road.
Here is my source where I ordered these bars:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deda-Cron...247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58a8724977
Here is my source where I ordered these bars:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deda-Cron...247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58a8724977
ratz
Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Waiting to see how the works out. Hoping you can get some video like the last time.
Another great bar and my new personal favorite is the Salsa Woodchipper. I cut 1.5" off the ends and it is a sweet bar. Nice flat sections to load on the power, and it positions the hoods straight ahead and not sideways in the wind. Riding the hoods is easy.Personally do not like the bullhorn style - I like having my arms in a power position where I can push-pull with force as opposed to being laid out in the air outstretched.
jond
Zen MBB Master
hi ratz my deda crononero straight bullhorns are great. love em. but i am slim with chicken legs . they would not suit someone not slim unless they were short due to the 44omm width as you note. they run parallel with my boom. after about 4oooklm i have finally dialed the bike in. now i have applied for my pilot licence. i think the main minus is the range of hand positions is limited compared to the drops. but for me they just work and the bike is very comfy and fast. 1cm adjustments matter. thanks again ratz for trailblazing and sharing. really very decent of you and you saved me lots of time and money... i searched high and low for various bars but could not find a lot of them available downunda so i made what i had work. glad i stuck with it.
Charles.Plager
Recumbent Quant
Another great bar and my new personal favorite is the Salsa Woodchipper. I cut 1.5" off the ends and it is a sweet bar. Nice flat sections to load on the power, and it positions the hoods straight ahead and not sideways in the wind. Riding the hoods is easy.
On my Cruzigami Mantis, I have mustache bars which put my hands in a similar position.
Tangentially, I have always really liked that picture. Quite fierce.
mzweili
Guru
I'm very satisfied with me current set-up. During winter I installed a 100mm chainstay extension and the DEDA TT bars. My thighs are close to the bar, but I like my arm and hand position. There is an interference between leg and brifter when shifting in the wrong moment, but I got used to it.
The only improvement I could think of would be to install shorter cranks (have 165mm).
NB: Snow has changed to rain every second day!
LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
They where quite hard for me to get used to. They just felt really "twitchy" and I really could not fly around the corners like I am used to.
Maybe they where just up to high - no sure.
When I am going 26+ mph around curse on a track or technical road course, I really felt comfortable with my hands holding onto the lower drops, and also felt good about applying deep power.
Did not feel as confident with the bullhorns.
I just do not like them and will be putting something different on I think.
I am experimenting with a very short stub bar now and TT brakes in the end.
I have been practicing riding with my hands close together like that and feel pretty comfortable (alot more than with the bullhorns)
Here is a picture of what I've got now:
Going to install tonight and hopefully try it out tomorrow on the track.
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LarryOz
Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Marc, can you upload a picture of your DEDA TT bars?
mzweili
Guru
Alan Clucas
Member
So I've tried the conversion to bullhorns from the stock drop bars on my 2.0. I wanted to strip the handlebars anyway to put some compressionless brake cables on, as I wasn't happy with the stopping performance of the discs (BB7s) with the installed outers.
I'm in the UK, so got hold of the 46cm Deda Elementi Cononero quite easily. This is the version with no drop, but with a bend in the end. My boom is pretty much horizontal. I've mounted them upside down with my 105 brifters on the end, so the effect is similar to Marc's Silvio except the bullhorns stick up a little more, and the bend allows the brake levers to not be so far away from my (small) hands.
Positives:
* Main one: Easier to put the power down when you want it. Your arms are already pretty close to being under tension as the bars are further away for me. With the stock bars I had to pull the elbows back more - perhaps a change of position for the boom would have helped, but I think I was nearly out of adjustment range.
* More control especially when setting off and at low speed.
* More hand positions - I could never really get comfy except in the drops on the old bars.
Negatives:
* Initially it felt pretty twitchy, but that passed in a day, and now it feels just as good.
* More likely hood of leg contact, especially with the pointy brifter end when shifting. Only one minor injury so far.
So I think I like them, but would like to shift to bar end somethings. Unfortunately the only bar end things that allow for both braking and gear changing involve using Di2, and so that's priced out of the question.
Maybe try bar end brakes and then mounting some bar end shifters on Paul's Thumbies would work. I'll stick with what I have for the next few months before fiddling again.
I'm in the UK, so got hold of the 46cm Deda Elementi Cononero quite easily. This is the version with no drop, but with a bend in the end. My boom is pretty much horizontal. I've mounted them upside down with my 105 brifters on the end, so the effect is similar to Marc's Silvio except the bullhorns stick up a little more, and the bend allows the brake levers to not be so far away from my (small) hands.
Positives:
* Main one: Easier to put the power down when you want it. Your arms are already pretty close to being under tension as the bars are further away for me. With the stock bars I had to pull the elbows back more - perhaps a change of position for the boom would have helped, but I think I was nearly out of adjustment range.
* More control especially when setting off and at low speed.
* More hand positions - I could never really get comfy except in the drops on the old bars.
Negatives:
* Initially it felt pretty twitchy, but that passed in a day, and now it feels just as good.
* More likely hood of leg contact, especially with the pointy brifter end when shifting. Only one minor injury so far.
So I think I like them, but would like to shift to bar end somethings. Unfortunately the only bar end things that allow for both braking and gear changing involve using Di2, and so that's priced out of the question.
Maybe try bar end brakes and then mounting some bar end shifters on Paul's Thumbies would work. I'll stick with what I have for the next few months before fiddling again.
ReklinedRider
Zen MBB Master
This is just a Sofrider but this works well and plan to use this on S30 or V20. SRAM R2C shifters, Shimano road brake levers, Gary 2 handlebars. Results in all of the positives mentioned above, none of the negatives, as well as multiple very ergonomic hand positions. No problem with the shifter housing causing discomfort because:
Then:
Then taped.
Bentas
Well-Known Member
Looking good Reklined Rider
Can you tell me what those bags are under the seat of the soft rider ?
Rob
