Close Eyes, Hold Nose, and Jump into Vendetta Deep-End

[Kestrel91]

Hello Cruzbike Community,

I'm interested in joining you all with a switch from DF to a recumbent as neck stenosis and piriformis syndrome have put paid to 25yrs of upright riding. I've been reading the arguments of S40 vs v20c in detail on the forums the last month or so, and after speaking with Jim and Maria I'm leaning towards the vendetta. Reason is the risk of recumbutt on the S40 seems very real given my past glute issues and my neck PT believes the vendetta with adjustable carbon seat and headrest looks like it should work. (I'm _think_ I'm ok with the longer learning curve, poorer visibility, lower maneuverability, etc if this is true).

Since the new vendetta does not come with a test/return period, I'm interested in buying used to try it out first on my trainer over the winter here in Minnesota. That should be enough to proceed with confidence in the spring or flip to the S40. If anyone has a line on a used vendetta (full bike or frame, happy to build up if needed), I'd be very grateful to hear from you.

Cheers
Mike

P.S. I realize this might not be the right forum for it, but any comments on my line of thinking or eval plan would be welcome.

 

[LarryOz]

Hi Mike,
Larry - here - I created the Cruzbike Museum and have about 40 Cruzbikes here. I am also the only Cruzbike dealer than only has Cruzbikes and also has all the new ones to demo. I know you are in Minn, but if you can get a cheap flight to Hilton Head I am sure I can get you riding the V20 fairly quickly. I have a proven training technique. I also have quite a few Vendetta frames. I might be able to spare one for a trainer. Please email me at larryoslund@gmail.com if you would like to continue this conversation.
Larry Oslund
828-216-7860

 

[JerseyJim]

Hi Mike,

Welcome! Please check out the Marketplace forum and set notifications on for new posts from there. You'll get an email whenever someone posts something for sale.

Regards,
Jim

 

[David Lalejini]

Hello Cruzbike Community,

I'm interested in joining you all with a switch from DF to a recumbent as neck stenosis and piriformis syndrome have put paid to 25yrs of upright riding. I've been reading the arguments of S40 vs v20c in detail on the forums the last month or so, and after speaking with Jim and Maria I'm leaning towards the vendetta. Reason is the risk of recumbutt on the S40 seems very real given my past glute issues and my neck PT believes the vendetta with adjustable carbon seat and headrest looks like it should work. (I'm _think_ I'm ok with the longer learning curve, poorer visibility, lower maneuverability, etc if this is true).

Since the new vendetta does not come with a test/return period, I'm interested in buying used to try it out first on my trainer over the winter here in Minnesota. That should be enough to proceed with confidence in the spring or flip to the S40. If anyone has a line on a used vendetta (full bike or frame, happy to build up if needed), I'd be very grateful to hear from you.

Cheers
Mike

P.S. I realize this might not be the right forum for it, but any comments on my line of thinking or eval plan would be welcome.

My first two wheel recumbent was the V20, bought off eBay used. My first ride was scary, and I really questioned my judgement. However after learning to ride it (took weeks), I'm so glad I gave it time. The V20 is fast but still very maneuverable. I feel comfortable riding with groups of road bikes (I stay a ways behind the pace line, or get in the front and they rotate behind me). I now also have a fast carbon two wheel recumbent I'm testing, but so far it isn't faster than the Vendetta (only 38 miles in, it's a dead heat, so more time needed). The Vendetta is definitely more maneuverable.

 

[Kestrel91]

Hi Mike,
Larry - here - I created the Cruzbike Museum and have about 40 Cruzbikes here. I am also the only Cruzbike dealer than only has Cruzbikes and also has all the new ones to demo. I know you are in Minn, but if you can get a cheap flight to Hilton Head I am sure I can get you riding the V20 fairly quickly. I have a proven training technique. I also have quite a few Vendetta frames. I might be able to spare one for a trainer. Please email me at larryoslund@gmail.com if you would like to continue this conversation.
Larry Oslund
828-216-7860

Thanks very much Larry, I'll reach out to you later tonight via email.

 

[Kestrel91]

Hi Mike,

Welcome! Please check out the Marketplace forum and set notifications on for new posts from there. You'll get an email whenever someone posts something for sale.

Regards,
Jim

Thanks for the tip Jim!

 

[Kestrel91]

My first two wheel recumbent was the V20, bought off eBay used. My first ride was scary, and I really questioned my judgement. However after learning to ride it (took weeks), I'm so glad I gave it time. The V20 is fast but still very maneuverable. I feel comfortable riding with groups of road bikes (I stay a ways behind the pace line, or get in the front and they rotate behind me). I now also have a fast carbon two wheel recumbent I'm testing, but so far it isn't faster than the Vendetta (only 38 miles in, it's a dead heat, so more time needed). The Vendetta is definitely more maneuverable.

Thanks David, it's encouraging to hear you've had no maneuverability issues. I had a similar thought about paceline integration - would expect some challenges there (takes trust both ways, doesn't it).

 

[David Lalejini]

Thanks David, it's encouraging to hear you've had no maneuverability issues. I had a similar thought about paceline integration - would expect some challenges there (takes trust both ways, doesn't it).

I avoid getting into the pace line with road bikes. It isn't really about maneuverability, it's because I don't give a lot of draft. If I'm with a group I know I might get up front for a while, they know to keep doing their rotation behind me. One friend told me trying to get draft off me was like trying to draft a Corvette. They get maybe 1/3 of an upright bike draft from me. When I'm behind the pace line I try to stay a little ways back so I'm not benefiting from their draft. On the Vendetta I don't need a pace line to keep a good pace, but drafting really helps the diamond frame bike riders. If I were in the pace line, the person behind me would not get much benefit.

 

[JerseyJim]

When I'm behind the pace line I try to stay a little ways back so I'm not benefiting from their draft.

You could benefit the pace line by being in the last rider's draft. There will be a little less drag on the last rider when you are in the slipstream. So even though you don't need the help, the rider in front of you might.

 

[cpml123]

You could benefit the pace line by being in the last rider's draft. There will be a little less drag on the last rider when you are in the slipstream. So even though you don't need the help, the rider in front of you might.

I always try to draft my friends, especially the tall ones. frequently I get tired of looking at their butt and just wanted to stay behind more so that I can look at the trees and traffic.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I always try to draft my friends, especially the tall ones. frequently I get tired of looking at their butt and just wanted to stay behind more so that I can look at the trees and traffic.

Same here cmpl123. With the V20's perfect field of view I would rather be up front if I were ever in a pace line than behind someone. I don't have the chance to ride with fast roadies so my inexperience in doing so would make me nervous even though I have over 1000 trips up and down my usual bike path.
Kestrel91, You probably learned this already but just in case, you can put a wedge under the Ventisit and your shoulders to increase and fine tune the seat angle a bit more upright. In short, you can't get the seat angle lower on an S40, but you can get it higher on a V20. If touring is your goal, The S40 is a very heavy hitter, and it is likely faster than a road bike.

On the V20 you can still put a tailbag, some top tube bags under the seat an on the boom for quite a bit of storage, so you can do light touring on it too. Plenty of CB riders have various iterations that are amazing.
Here are 2 of the tailbags I've tried so far. The top pic is a sportbike seat fairing made of fiberglass. It is lighter and waterproof than the 2nd but the connection to my V20 leaves a lot to be desired. The second is a 14-16L expandable motorcycle seat bag. It buckles off and on quickly, but is just water resistant. With a rear fender and a waterproof cover it would be my goto choice for any touring until I get a dependable solution for the fiberglass tailbox.

 

[Kestrel91]

I avoid getting into the pace line with road bikes. It isn't really about maneuverability, it's because I don't give a lot of draft. If I'm with a group I know I might get up front for a while, they know to keep doing their rotation behind me. One friend told me trying to get draft off me was like trying to draft a Corvette. They get maybe 1/3 of an upright bike draft from me. When I'm behind the pace line I try to stay a little ways back so I'm not benefiting from their draft. On the Vendetta I don't need a pace line to keep a good pace, but drafting really helps the diamond frame bike riders. If I were in the pace line, the person behind me would not get much benefit.

This is a good calibration - thanks. Just curious if you've ever wished you were on an S40 so you could rotate through the paceline? Or is it a similar deal with all recumbents riding with a DF group...just accept you'll be at the front or back and that's it?

 

[Kestrel91]

I always try to draft my friends, especially the tall ones. frequently I get tired of looking at their butt and just wanted to stay behind more so that I can look at the trees and traffic.

Yes. Especially got to watch out for the threadbare shorts with morning sun behind you (Had this happen to me once - got a mortifying comment from one of the gals on the ride. Bought new shorts that afternoon, but she still finds a way to bring it up 10 years later! Another advantage of the Cruzbike I guess )

 

[Kestrel91]

Same here cmpl123. With the V20's perfect field of view I would rather be up front if I were ever in a pace line than behind someone. I don't have the chance to ride with fast roadies so my inexperience in doing so would make me nervous even though I have over 1000 trips up and down my usual bike path.
Kestrel91, You probably learned this already but just in case, you can put a wedge under the Ventisit and your shoulders to increase and fine tune the seat angle a bit more upright. In short, you can't get the seat angle lower on an S40, but you can get it higher on a V20. If touring is your goal, The S40 is a very heavy hitter, and it is likely faster than a road bike.

On the V20 you can still put a tailbag, some top tube bags under the seat an on the boom for quite a bit of storage, so you can do light touring on it too. Plenty of CB riders have various iterations that are amazing.
Here are 2 of the tailbags I've tried so far. The top pic is a sportbike seat fairing made of fiberglass. It is lighter and waterproof than the 2nd but the connection to my V20 leaves a lot to be desired. The second is a 14-16L expandable motorcycle seat bag. It buckles off and on quickly, but is just water resistant. With a rear fender and a waterproof cover it would be my goto choice for any touring until I get a dependable solution for the fiberglass tailbox.
View attachment 17877View attachment 17878

Thanks Frito. Is the wedge you reference something CB sells or just a homemade job? That is assuring that I can pop it up a bit if needed given neck issues. I'm not planning to do much touring with the vendetta in the next 4-5 years (see what retirement brings), going to be more 1-3hr solo or club rides for general fitness and maybe some racing if it works.

BTW great looking bike you have there.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks Frito. Is the wedge you reference something CB sells or just a homemade job? That is assuring that I can pop it up a bit if needed given neck issues. I'm not planning to do much touring with the vendetta in the next 4-5 years (see what retirement brings), going to be more 1-3hr solo or club rides for general fitness and maybe some racing if it works.

BTW great looking bike you have there.

Thanks Kestrel91, I like it even more than when I first got it 3 years ago.
As for the wedge, I am not sure if CB sells one, but of course with the right kind of foam you can make your own. I put 2cm of adhesive backed foam under my shoulders for comfort and so that bugs wouldn't get in my eye from under my sunglasses hahaha.

 

[vmi1056]

And let the Cruzbike journey begin!

Cruzbike does sell a wedge on their website. Many CB riders have crafted their own. For me, the 20 degree was a bit too much so I installed a Thor seat and used a small rubber block between the seat and frame to raise the seat back up just a touch to where it fits really well for me now. As stated, you can always bring the V20 seat up, can’t bring the S40 down. Then there is the S30 which seems to hit the sweet spot for a lot of folks but can be hard to find since there was only a limited run of those.

 

[Kestrel91]

Thanks Kestrel91, I like it even more than when I first got it 3 years ago.
As for the wedge, I am not sure if CB sells one, but of course with the right kind of foam you can make your own. I put 2cm of adhesive backed foam under my shoulders for comfort and so that bugs wouldn't get in my eye from under my sunglasses hahaha.

That's a good endorsement. On the wedge, I definitely have the sense from lurking on the forums that there's a lot of customization going on out there with the seats. I generally am not a tinkerer with my fit as my road bike experience had me dialing stuff in to the mm and leaving it, but it's good to know the are some degrees of freedom here to dial things in. Thanks.

 

[Kestrel91]

And let the Cruzbike journey begin!

Cruzbike does sell a wedge on their website. Many CB riders have crafted their own. For me, the 20 degree was a bit too much so I installed a Thor seat and used a small rubber block between the seat and frame to raise the seat back up just a touch to where it fits really well for me now. As stated, you can always bring the V20 seat up, can’t bring the S40 down. Then there is the S30 which seems to hit the sweet spot for a lot of folks but can be hard to find since there was only a limited run of those. View attachment 17889

Good looking bike! Thanks for the tip. I've read a bit about Thor seats vs the CB adj. carbon seat. They both looks helpfuI but in slightly different ways (specific contours on Thor with overall adjustments from blocks like you say vs more degrees of freedom on the CB seat). I am looking for the best solution for avoiding aggravation of neck issues around c6-c7 which is my biggest concern around the vendetta. Any opinions on this? Cheers

 

[Always-Learnin]

Foam Wedge Backrest Insert - S40

The Foam Wedge Backrest Insert offers S40 owners a seat back angle adjustment option that preserves the S40's incredibly efficient seat-to-frame-to-drive connection. Place this custom-designed and formed foam wedge between the S40's carbon fiber seat and the back cushion to kick shoulders...

cruzbike.com

 

[Bentsoup]

Thanks very much Larry, I'll reach out to you later tonight via email.

Larry is like the Godfather of Cruzbikes, or maybe an Ambassador. Either way, Larry would be the guy to work with here.