Components for a Silvio S30

[ReklinedRider]

Wandering thread

Good job bringing it back!

As an aside, TRP told me that my extant Avid levers will work perfectly with the Spyke's, along with the Avid rotors. Changing the rotors on a Kettwiesel would not be worth the effort unless they wouldn't work with the TRP's. But the TRP rotors come with the Spyke calipers anyway; in case I decide to sell the BB7's I'll get the Avid rotors off then. I almost never junk anything that i might be able to use later.

Thanks once again for your very generous input and advice.

We now return the readership (once again) to the tilting S30 thread.

km

 

[MrSteve]

You're You

-and I'm me.

Everyone is working with different biomechanical issues.
What works for you will not necessarily work for an other person.
That's just with two wheels; your question -the Original Post-
was for gearing your proposed trike conversion.

If I were you, I would plan for as wide a gear range as possible.
That way, your pedaling needs are likely to be met, somewhere within
your available gears.

For example, I have a triple installed on my bike.
In the Spring, I actually need some of my small-small gears to slog
up some of the incredibly steep hills.
Why?
I'm not an athlete, I like to eat during the holidays and love beer.

In the Fall, I climb those same little bumps in the third/biggest ring
and the smallest ring is just dead weight.
Why?
I'm almost athletic by the end of the riding season.

This lifestyle of mine is made possible by the triple rings, the widest
possible gear ratio.

----

Or, just throw money and parts at your bike long enough to get it exactly
the way you like it.
That always works.


-Steve

 

[tiltmaniac]

And are there any suggestions

And are there any suggestions on compatible disc hubs for the S30?

I've been unable to figure out if the spacing on the front fork of the S30 is 130, 132.5, or 135 yet. Given that I have plenty of 130 and 135 hubs at home, that shouldn't be too hard to figure out once I have it, I suppose, but I'd love to start building a wheel before the bike arrives, if possible.

Should I send an email to the support/customer service folks at Cruzbike, you think?

 

[ratz]

Spacing is 132.5mm

Spacing is 132.5mm on the new S30 and V30; the braze on's for the disc brake mechanics expects a ISO mounted disc. The rear is a standard 100mm

As far as which hub to use depends.... If lacing a new wheel; it's hard to beat the DT Swiss 350 Classic ISO Disc Brake Rear Hub, it's MTB and 135mm but at $165 it's hard to beat; same guts as the 240; just heavier.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Excellent!
If I can safely

Excellent!

If I can safely use 135s, I have *lots* of wheels to choose from here.
There have been a number of pretty good deals on the DT swiss hubs lately, though (I found 'em for <$70 on Amazon before Xmas, amazingly!).

 

[tiltmaniac]

75,110bcd compact double+short cranks+external bearings

Hmm.. I found a compact double with 75+110mm bcd with short cranks and external bearings!
Has anyone else seen the Sugino OX801D? family of cranks and/or tried 'em?

I just stumbled across them, and they seem like they might be a good alternative to a triple for folks who prefer wide range over optimal spacing.

Anyway, here they are:
http://www.alexscycle.com/cranks/road-1-2-3-4-5-6/sugino-ox801d-compact-plus-chainwheelset.html

Nice gear range, small q-factor, external bearings, and reports of high quality. Downside is price, as usual.

 

[ratz]

Be sure to read the threads

Be sure to read the threads on triples and 74bcd. Here is a review of that crank set http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=1799

 

[tiltmaniac]

Reviews and more reviews.

Thanks for pointing out that thread! I'm hoping to use some q-rings (as they were highly praised on other threads here), and they don't seem to have the low tabs, and so probably don't require any modifications... but, we'll find out.

On the crankset review I've found a few for the prettier cousin (which is the one I linked up there, which is actually cheaper at the moment, though I wouldn't call it cheap), and the mountain bike version (same bcd setup, but different chainwheels).

The most interesting review (at least to me) for the OX601D was this one: http://epicureancyclist.com/review-sugino-ox601d-compact-plus-aka-the-impossible-crankset-44-26/

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I'm hoping to use some

I'm hoping to use some q-rings (as they were highly praised on other threads here), and they don't seem to have the low tabs, and so probably don't require any modifications...

If you go with a 74 BCD you will need to do the mod as suggested in other threads regardless of using a q-ring.

However, if you are set on a triple, the best choice is Shimano Ultegra or Tiagra. They both have the 92 BCD granny that will clear the BB clamps. But you will not be able to use Q-rings on the middle and granny rings, only the big outer ring.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Love the flexibility.

Quick component report on the Sugino ZX801D (a compact-compact double)

While my S30 build is proceeding slowly, I did mount the ZX801D's bracket and crank on the Silvio's front triangle.
Amazingly, using the included two spacers (one on each side), there is around 1mm of space between the bottom of the inside chainring bolts and the clamp, which is perfectly centered, with no modification.


The inside chainwheel has 24 teeth, so the low gearing works with this setup.

That being said, I have no idea if this is what I will eventually ride (the gearing will likely be too low), but thought you folks might find it interesting.

AFAICT It is possible to change the chainwheels on this for various configurations from 24-42, up to 36-50.

 

[ratz]

That will excite a number of

That will excite a number of people. While that Sugino isn't cheap; the savings in setup grief will be well worth it.

Now before Charles chimes in. If there aren't photos; it never happened

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Now before Charles chimes in.

Now before Charles chimes in. If there aren't photos; it never happened

I second this. Would be interesting see how that looks, and the size of the spacers.

 

[Charles.Plager]

Crud! I got scooped by both

Crud! I got scooped by both Bob and Rick.

 

[ratz]

Crud! I got scooped by both

Crud! I got scooped by both Bob and Rick. [Laughing out loud]

Well you know us guys that work at a computer all day; un-snoopervised. we get bored easy.
Don't think of it as scooped; we are merely your mignons.

 

[tiltmaniac]

More like .5mm clearance

I measured to be sure that I'd centered it, and it was centered to within .1mm (too difficult to measure below that).

The spacers appear to be about 3mm thick, and there is one on each side.
When feeling the internal dust cup (what is the name for that thingie?) between the two external bearing cups, it felt like it was engaged strongly on one side, and not as strongly on the other. Given that I slathered the inside of the BB shell with marine grease, and the use of these caps is just to protect the interior of the BB shell from environmental guck, and that it feels like the o-rings may be engaged on both sides anyway, and the crank has a low q-factor to start with... I don't really care.

The space from the cups to the clamp is (perhaps unsurprisingly) 3mm on both sides.
This appears to leave about a .5mm space between the innermost part of the chainring and the largest part of the clamp.

Pics follow.

Moved clamp to the side so you can see the spacer.

Pic of the clearance between the 24 tooth inner 74bcd chainring and the clamp.

 

[tiltmaniac]

More details ... I think it is *not* the BB...

So, measurements and observations.

The left-hand-side of the BB is supported purely by an O-ring so that the BB remains sealed to water even if one changes the distance between the inner-faces of the BB. So, my previous observation that one side of the sealing cup thingie wasn't as firm as the other makes total sense now.

The spacers come in at 2.3mm each (one on each side, for 4.6mm of spacing).

Upon comparison with an FSA MegaExo 24mm ID external bearing bottom bracket (BB-6200), the shoulders of the Sugino BB (MB-608-II) are slightly wider. Curiously, the Sugino's ID is ever so slightly smaller than that of the MegaExo.

The MegaExo measures 10.5mm from inner-face to outer face, and the MB-608-II measures 10.8mm from inner face to outer face.
The inner part of the shoulder of the MB-608-II is slanted, however, which means that the inner part of the Silvio's clamp is not supported by the bearing cups on the inside.

I estimate that the clamp is clamping onto ~3mm on each side instead of the "usual" ~6mm. It *feels* secure, at least with manual tugging about on the stand, but I have no idea if that is workable for the bike long-term.

I attempted to put on some beautiful shortened FSA gossamer triples, however, with the spacing required (2.4*3 = 7.2 mm), the Silvio's BB clamp would hardly be touching anything, and the crank wouldn't have enough spline to fully engage. They'll be going on a different 'bent, and the Sugino ZX801D is here to stay. Since the ID of the Sugino BB is a bit smaller than that of the FSA BB, I didn't attempt to force the FSA triple onto that BB.

The 25t 74mm BCD q-ring works fine on the Sugino-- there is no interference, though the tolerances are small.

Sorry, it is late and I didn't take photos, but take my word for it

 

[ratz]

Nice work.
You've

Nice work.

You've successfully created and documented the cleanest small ring solution we've seen.

Charles you are running out of excuses not to by a Silvio..... it's almost too easy now.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

You've successfully created

You've successfully created and documented the cleanest small ring solution we've seen.

+1 - Yep , that's the way to go and get q-rings too. The Sugino are pricey, but worth it I think to avoid the headaches with spacers and offsetting the BB. I may add these to my ever increasing bike list to try on the Silvio someday.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Well, there are still some issues...

I wouldn't go running out to purchase anything yet.

I still need to figure out how to make the front derailleur work-- the current braze-on tab is too high for the FD to work well with this setup.

I'm seeing about what to do about that. I wish that the Silvio came with a shim for a clamp-on adapter instead of having the braze on slot as it does right now (or, perhaps I wish that the slot was longer). Another option is to install higher gears (literally-- a couple of centimeter taller (and thus higher) gears would make everything work just fine).

It *almost* works-- if I clamp the top of the braze-on of the derailleur (Sram Red Yaw 10) onto the bottom (so that the bolt is not in the slot), it gets pretty close to working. I'd *never* ride like that though as it wouldn't be safe. I'll keep folks up-to-date on what works as I find out.

I'd guess that John didn't bet on people being so crazy about this (low-end gearing) on a Silvio.

 

[ratz]

Fix the braze on

Get ahold of Steve scabinetguy he has solved your problem for you. if this wasn't for the tilting project I'd tell you that you'll not need that ultra low end, you'll still probably slip the wheel in the lowest gears but it will be interesting to see what you think in the end.