Cruzbike Time Trial Challenge 2020

[trplay]

Ps I wrote the previous post without seeing the intervening banter with trplay and pollock.

It's all in good fun. Larry is a good sport. I'm just sorting through these strava segments myself. But you can find them on your strava site where you rode the Tempus Fugit. It will be under segments. Or you can just ride it and make your on segment.

 

[Pollock]

Make sure to open the hidden segments, then star the one you want.

 

[LarryOz]

Nice, so just start ‘backwards’ through the start/finish line?

Considering it is against your own time, I agree it should not matter if you are outdoors or indoors (preferably on a Zwift / Strava approved route). I do find it amusing how often Larry is on Zwift and does not support it for this.

Larry, I get it that you are doing the hard work organizing and you get to set the rules. I am very sad about this, but I will respect your decision.

@trplay are you up for a weekly meetup where we ride this TT on TT bikes (no draft)?

..
It is not that I am "so" against this - but making it work for both is a ton of work and "cheating" is so much easier on Zwift too.
Are we going to require everyone to take a picture of their scale and what they have listed for their weight on Zwift each week?
How can we confirm that they are really using a TT bike and not drafting?
What about power up usage doing the TT they are doing - no way to confirm that either.
Then the most complicated part of all - allowing any person to ride either outside or on Zwift for any given week. That is a total "PITA" to keep track of since I have to keep track of 2 different PB's for each person and then run the points and placement off that for that week. This also makes the scoring and placement each week a little goofy the more a person switches back and forth from one to the other since they are so different. I am sorry, but I just did not really want that hassle - Allowing only 1 or the other would make it easier.
Yes - I ride Zwift a lot because I do it while I work - but honestly I can't see why someone can't go outside at least once a week and ride 12-miles.
As much as I love Zwift -I am always itching to ride outside and thankful that time is upon us -
Plus riding outside is so much more realistic! - wouldn't you agree?
- I will still bring this up with Cruzbike and see what they have to say about it.
... my 2 cents

 

[Mathew Fy]

I think a Zwift-based TT Challenge is a great idea. Someone could come up reasonable rules, moderate, and even get a sponsored prize. I might even give it a try after this one (my first such effort.)

I rode my Strava segment yesterday, targeting a heart rate at 150. I think I could push a bit harder, maybe reach speeds I was able to maintain when I was a young Jarhead. I'm excited to see this play out.

 

[Pollock]

Larry, I have no issue at all. Again, you are doing the work, you get to set the rules.

I do plan to ride a TT in Zwift over this time period so I can ‘compete’ and see if I find any improvement. I’ll play around with a Google Sheet tonight / tomorrow to see how much I can automate before I just break out a programming language to do the work

I do agree that cheating is easier in Zwift, though not exclusive.

 

[trplay]

..
It is not that I am "so" against this - but ......

Those are fair questions and I think I can answer every one satisfactorily.
Larry: but making it work for both is a ton of work and "cheating" is so much easier on Zwift too.

Response: You'll get a strava verified segment with time, cadence, HR, power, distance. How is this different then the outdoor ride? From the cheating side I don't see how anything could be easier than getting in your car with your Garmin. I have a lot of faith this isn't a group needing stazi controls on following the spirit of the rules.

Are we going to require everyone to take a picture of their scale and what they have listed for their weight on Zwift each week?

I suppose you could, but do they have to be naked? On the other hand are you drug testing your outdoor riders? Again, I really don't see cheating as being a serious issue here.

How can we confirm that they are really using a TT bike and not drafting?

Their ZP data will show a little green bike symbolizing a TT bike and a TT bike gets no draft.

What about power up usage doing the TT they are doing - no way to confirm that either.

Actually I believe TT bikes do not get power ups. But even if they did wouldn't this just hurt them in the next race? But not as much as a strong tail wind will for your outdoor riders. Just make a rule no drafting , no power ups.

Then the most complicated part of all - allowing any person to ride either outside or on Zwift for any given week. That is a total "PITA" to keep track of since I have to keep track of 2 different PB's for each person and then run the points and placement off that for that week. This also makes the scoring and placement each week a little goofy the more a person switches back and forth from one to the other since they are so different. I am sorry, but I just did not really want that hassle - Allowing only 1 or the other would make it easier.

You provided the easy solution to your own perceived problem. Allow one or the other, no mixing.

Yes - I ride Zwift a lot because I do it while I work - but honestly I can't see why someone can't go outside at least once a week and ride 12-miles.

Everyone rides for their own reasons and they are all good. I don't think you want to go down this road.

Plus riding outside is so much more realistic! - wouldn't you agree?

LOL more realistic? Not sure I follow. I thought the goal was aerobic performance gains. Besides Connie wont let me drag in any road kill so I can get some of that realism of the open road.

 

[Pollock]

Their ZP data will show a little green bike symbolizing a TT bike and a TT bike gets no draft.

I’ll need to check on my PC instead of a tablet, but I looked at. Y ride data from today on Zwift Power. These are just normal rides; not a group ride or race.

For my rides, I don’t see the ride details. I can see the top level metrics about it or download the fit file. Overall, I think Strava provides a better view of the data in this mode. Now, if we could get Zwift to schedule a CruzBike (or Recumbent) ITT, then the ZP site seems to show more complete data.

 

[trplay]

At one time the Green bike signified a TT bike was used. I'm not seeing it now. Perhaps its been removed?

 

[Bill Wightman]

That is a total "PITA" to keep track of since I have to keep track of 2 different PB's for each person and then run the points and placement off that for that week.

PITA sums it up. I think Larry needs to follow his best judgement as the administrator of this activity. Complications and unexpected consequences can get out of hand. I think we risk Larry's good will and volunteering spirit by trying to put too many marbles in this bag. Then there is "the perfect is the enemy of the good" Voltaire, pithy but true.

 

[trplay]

PITA sums it up. I think Larry needs to follow his best judgement as the administrator of this activity.

We all agree Larry should do whatever he wants and I've accepted I'm out and am moving on. As a long time recumbent rider, I'm use to bans Hope you guys have a great season. But a "PITA",really? Larry would get a Strava segment exactly like the outdoor riders provide from exactly the same site with the same data, or am I missing something?

 

[Pollock]

@trplay did you see the new meetup option that dropped today? You can create a meetup and have Zwift not show or use other riders in your meetup. Much like group rides that do not show or calculate riders who are outside the group.

It is not fool-proof, but allows you to ride an ITT on any bike

 

[LarryOz]

OK - I have double checked with Cruzbike - They have OK'd the inclusion of the "Fuego Du lollipop" Zwift Segment for anyone who would rather ride the Zwift segment for the 2020 TT Challenge.
Only caveat is that you cannot switch back and forth from outdoors and Zwift (That is was the PITA really was last year for the winter version - keeping track of 2 different PB's for each person and what they rode each week)

If you pick Zwift then you are stuck with it the entire 21 weeks, same thing for outdoors.
Other rules are you must use TT bike, and report your weight for each ride.

(I will update the "rules" doc with all this information)
..
We are also adding 10 other categories that will receive a custom Award at the end of the year. They are:

• Most Improved (Greatest % improvement from their first PB)
  
• Highest Average Heart Rate
• Highest Average Power
• Highest Average Watts/KG
• Most efficient (Highest Avg Speed based on Watt/KG)
• Most consistent (Smallest % difference between Longest and Shortest time)
• Highest Avg Speed
• Highest Avg Cadence
• Highest # weekly wins (rider who “wins” the week with greatest time over current PB)
• Highest # PBs overall (max = 21)
  

(Obviously some of these categories will require power, HR, cadence and weight. 5 of them do not require any of those added tech gadgets.
Winners of these categories will receive a specially designed Medallion engraved with the winning data and name of the back. (As soon as Cruzbike releases the design I will post it)

 

[Pollock]

@LarryOz that is awesome news! Thank you. I suspect you will have at least two of us selecting Zwift for this; myself included.

As you are including a W/KG award, I think everyone should report their ride day weight so you have the data required

 

[McWheels]

I'll need a few more gadgets to get in the game there. My bike is what's known as Good Training[TM] and has flat pedals.

With the loss of the cricket season over here, I might as well do this in loco.

 

[Pollock]

@McWheels if you are riding outside, really you just need your mobile phone and install Strava to record your ride.

If you need help with Zwift for indoors, reach out and one of us can help get you sorted there as well.

 

[NeaL]

If you participated in the 2019 Summer TT Challenge, this will be very similar, utilizing an outdoor 12-mile Strava Segment, it will just be 21 weeks instead of 12 weeks this year. You can even use your save Strava Segment if you were happy with it.

Last year was 15 weeks.

Not at all happy with last year’s segment, mainly due to the sudden flurry of rude drivers at the end of the ride, each week. I’ll be moving my route away from that intersection.

I’m in.

 

[Barefoot Biker]

https://www.strava.com/activities/3402123296/segments/2692528940416755919 <--- boom, i'm in!!

 

[ccf]

OK - I have double checked with Cruzbike - They have OK'd the inclusion of the "Fuego Du lollipop" Zwift Segment for anyone who would rather ride the Zwift segment for the 2020 TT Challenge.

Thanks for allowing Zwift. The answer to your question "why [can't] someone can't go outside at least once a week and ride 12-miles?" is safety. On Sunday I did my first ride outdoors in two months. I hit a pothole wider than the width of the laptop I'm typing this on at 33 mph and cracked my front rim. The road crews haven't been out to patch the roads, and there are a lot more road hazards. Luckily I didn't crash on Sunday. Now is a really bad time for a hospital trip. If you're going to TT outdoors, stay safe!

 

[ccf]

report your weight for each ride

Should weight include shoes and helmet (even though no helmet on Zwift)?

 

[RojoRacing]

I can do hill climbs all day long outdoors in CA but to find 12 miles of even remotely flat road that doesn't have stop lights every 1/2 mile would require at least 50 miles of driving minimum. When they excluded zwift from the last TT I didn't bother even following the thread, I ignored this one all the same till someone pointed out zwift was added. So now I'll look into considering joining you guys and gals for a little self-improvement. Last time we did the zwift TT challenge there was one or two members who were able to go toe to toe with me in raw power, I hope we can have a solid challenge for the top spot in raw power again. Last time I actually increase my raw power over 40 mins from like 305 to 325 which is massive at my level of fitness.

@LarryOz highest avg cadence? cadence doesn't seem like something to consider like the other categories since it's not really related to ability and more a products of equipment choice.

"Greatest mental growth" could replace highest average HR and would be measured as the greatest % growth in average HR throughout the season. Award that rider who started out slow not knowing how to push their limits as they grow each weak and discover their max HR was 20 bpm higher than they always thought and that they can actually avg near what they thought was their max.