Diet: Low Carb and Ultra Cycling

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I will check my LDL levels. I don't eat red meat, I eat mainly fish but I am high on goats cheese and eggs. I do eat lots of mediteranian salad with Virgin olive oil.

When i cook an omlette with three eggs I only use the yoke of one egg plus the three whites of the eggs. But I only have been doing this for the last third of the diet.

I started at the end of last February after seeing Maria and Jim. There performances were spectacular and I came back thinking if I wanted to race at Sebring then I would have to lose a lot of weight. It's been my number one goal.

It's going to be strange after this Sebring as I have no goals set.

Does the LDL test have to be blood tested or is there some omron device that would tell me?
 
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castlerobber

Zen MBB Master
Overall this was successful but there is a dark side. Lee Taylor was correct in saying it will trash your cholesterol count. My recent labs show my HDL is well beyond range. My doctor went in a huff when I refused his prescription to try to bring it down. I figure I will try to do it with diet first. The most interesting thing of all is I am not seeing a performance boost on the bike?
Your doctor is complaining because your "good" cholesterol is high?

As hard as researchers have tried to prove* their theory that saturated fat and cholesterol cause coronary heart disease, they just haven't been able to get more than a weak correlation. (Sugar consumption has a much stronger relationship.) Checking cholesterol during a period of weight loss, especially on low-carb, can give high results precisely because you're losing fat. Once you go to maintenance, and add back a few more good carbs, it should settle back down.

My TC has jumped significantly in the past few years as I've been eating low carb. But the HDL is high (my doctor freaked out, too), the triglycerides are low, and all the ratios are great. So I likewise refused the muscle-destroying statins. Plus, being a female of a certain age, I have the natural drop in estrogen to deal with--which reliably increases TC even without dietary changes.

*By the scientific method, they're supposed to be trying to disprove ("falsify") their theory. Instead, they tend to suppress or "spin" studies that don't confirm what they wanted to see. But I digress.
 

Maria Parker

Administrator
Congratulation trplay! I didn't realize you had nearly 40 pounds extra on you. Looking forward to seeing you at Sebring in your new svelte racing body.
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
Ok... Yesterday I cycled Sebring century with around 50 fl oz of water mixed with three scoops of an amino acid compound called PMD BCAA that was bought from GNC - water melon flavor - pretty good. Last 20 miles my left glute and foot started to cramp up so perhaps it might have been wise to put 4 scoops in. I thought it best to have some muscle feed compound that was low carb.
I said that after the race I would fast for 12 hours and get a cholesterol test. I have been doing this diet just for the Sebring race for a year and now it's over well here are the results...
Total cholesterol:144
HDL:53
Triglycerides:63
Glucose:91
LDL:79

My HDL is a bit low and I suspect it might just be the after effects of the race.

The thought of eating pulse, legumes and more fiber isn't an entertaining thought. Shall I relax the diet or keep going with the ketogenic diet?

End of a chapter or the start of another?
image.jpeg

(The diet is a little more refined than the primal blueprint - I eat fish/seafood instead of meat and I am high on egg whites and mediteranian salad with Virgin Olive Oil. I am low with dairy. I drink almond milk and eat quite a lot of goats cheese. When training, a protein powder - low carb supplement is used)
 
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castlerobber

Zen MBB Master
Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as good cholesterol.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663974/
This is a study on a group of Caucasian women, regarding whether measuring particle size via nuclear magnetic resonance would be more predictive than standard lipid testing. It wasn't. Not sure how you're drawing your conclusion?

Heart attack proof is in the 50-70mg/dl range.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426
This seems to be about aggressive statin therapy in people who already have CVD or are at very high risk for it. I find it interesting that they gloss over the liver and muscle toxicity of high-dose statins as "rising modestly."

Looks like the majority of CAD patients in this study had normal to low LDL levels.
http://www.ahjonline.com/article/S0002-8703(08)00717-5/abstract
 
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castlerobber

Zen MBB Master
I said that after the race I would fast for 12 hours and get a cholesterol test. I have been doing this diet just for the Sebring race for a year and now it's over well here are the results...
Total cholesterol:144
HDL:53
Triglycerides:63
Glucose:91
LDL:79

My HDL is a bit low and I suspect it might just be the after effects of the race.

The thought of eating pulse, legumes and more fiber isn't an entertaining thought. Shall I relax the diet or keep going with the ketogenic diet?

I was just reading about cholesterol levels and ratios the other day. I had not realized that LDL is usually calculated from the other three values, rather than directly tested, using the 1970s Friedewald equation of LDL = TC – HDL – (trig/5). When the calculated LDL is compared with directly-measured LDL, the calculated value becomes more inaccurate the farther triglycerides deviate from 150. Two other more-recently derived equations, the Iranian (LDL = TC/1.19 + trig/1.9 – HDL/1.1 – 38) and Hattori (LDL = 0.75 (TC - HDL)) equations, match up much more closely with directly-measured LDL.

So, by both of those, your LDL would be much closer to 68 than to 79. With either LDL figure, your ratios are quite good:
Your Total Cholesterol of 144 is DESIRABLE
Your HDL of 53 is NORMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 63 is NORMAL


Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 2.72 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 1.189 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

LDL 79:
Your LDL of 79 is OPTIMAL
Your LDL/HDL ratio is: 1.491 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 2.0) IDEAL


LDL 68:
Your LDL of 68 is OPTIMAL
Your LDL/HDL ratio is: 1.283 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 2.0) IDEAL


Ratio calculator

Two-formula LDL calculator

Friedewald vs Iranian formula study
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I was just reading about cholesterol levels and ratios the other day. I had not realized that LDL is usually calculated from the other three values, rather than directly tested, using the 1970s Friedewald equation of LDL = TC – HDL – (trig/5). When the calculated LDL is compared with directly-measured LDL, the calculated value becomes more inaccurate the farther triglycerides deviate from 150. Two other more-recently derived equations, the Iranian (LDL = TC/1.19 + trig/1.9 – HDL/1.1 – 38) and Hattori (LDL = 0.75 (TC - HDL)) equations, match up much more closely with directly-measured LDL.

So, by both of those, your LDL would be much closer to 68 than to 79. With either LDL figure, your ratios are quite good:
Your Total Cholesterol of 144 is DESIRABLE
Your HDL of 53 is NORMAL
Your Triglyceride level of 63 is NORMAL

Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 2.72 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) IDEAL
Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 1.189 - (preferably under 4, ideally under 2) IDEAL

LDL 79:
Your LDL of 79 is OPTIMAL
Your LDL/HDL ratio is: 1.491 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 2.0) IDEAL


LDL 68:
Your LDL of 68 is OPTIMAL
Your LDL/HDL ratio is: 1.283 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 2.0) IDEAL


Ratio calculator

Two-formula LDL calculator

Friedewald vs Iranian formula study
I much appreciated the reply. I always chose Cruzbike as an alternative. It's a thinking persons mode of transport and with its forum ... It's invaluable due mainly to its members who share and care for others. So this is a big thank you!:D
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I've had a crazy time after the Sebring race. Better get back on that diet.

Instead of it going to my head ... It's gone to my stomach.

America is a place of abundance. That's for sure.

I really enjoyed myself over there but oddly enough pleased to be back.
 

Jayrob

Active Member
Guys, if you want to lose weight easily and stay healthy, read the book by Dr. Joel Fuhrman "Eat to Live". It saved my life over 5 years ago and I lost over 50 pounds without trying and was never hungry. My neighbor had never weighed less than 290 pounds since he was around 12. He lost 97 pounds in less than 8 months after I loaned him my book. You will also find that you can eat complex carbs, not sugar and starchy carbs, and lose weight. Of course since I got sick and had Inguinal hernia surgery, I have gained 15 pounds back. I love Cashews, walnuts, peanuts, and almonds. I know I should not eat too many at a time, but when lying around not able to do anything else, I eat them by the double hand full. Sometimes half the bag. Ha! Now that I am finally over the surgery and riding again, I don't eat the nuts like a nut!
 

Rathe1954

New Member
Please read this first post before replying to this thread. Failure to do so may result in your reply being moved to it's own thread. We don't delete posts in almost all cases unless requested to by the poster; but we do occasionally move them to improve thread integrity, but even then it's rare. This thread and other like it to come, may be the exception.

It's become clear we need a good safe place to discuss diet strategies here in the forums both for general members trying to get fit and for our racing sub community. The problem with those discussions are that humans are varied and different things work for different people. Unfortunately it seems that as a side effect of that, diet strategies can sometime take on the fervor of religion and politics. If you doubt this see BROL's health section, by rights that should be an awesome resource unfortunately that is rarely the case as a user subset over there will hijack most threads to convince people that there is only 1 right way to eat and live. We don't do that here. So this thread will be different and hopefully more useful.

So here's the deal after some thought and introspection I'm willing to spend the time to truly moderate some high quality threads about diet. This should allow use to have very good resources for Vegan, LowCarb, Vegetarian, and Even Donut centric thread. I'm going to treat each one as a resource for those following the approach; if someone drops in a post asking for honest question about "but how does that work" it will stay. But post that are clearly of the implication "that's stupid it won't work, this is better" will get promptly moved to there own thread where the debate can continue. If a subthread gets into a long back and for about I'm confused how can that be, even if it's helpful I will also spin that off so it can continue but be separate from the main resource in a healthy constructive manager. Frankly with the quality of our community I don't expect to have to do much of that unless a newbie misses this message or a good intention discussion between Aussies devolves (looking at your Slim and Jon) :p If you want one of these thread's PM me and I will start the thread with this same header (I can't insert it after you start your thread due to datestamps). All threads are welcome for various Diet/Train-Style approaches.

On topic for this type of thread: Books on the subject, research papers, podcasts, websites, recipes, person success stories, person struggles, user to user support and encouragement, race/event results, training results, failures, strategies.

If this is immensely popular we can lobby Lucia to great a diet and training top level forum that's moderated to hold all such thread. If it's boring and not interesting then well all I lost was the time it took to compose this (twice I deleted the first one on accident:mad:) and the time you spent to read it.

Please join in and let's see what the tribe can make of this sort of topic.

Hello ratz, very usefull topic for those who want to post somethink, and in general its good for info, and the good think you do moderation on your community so keep doing good thinks for forum!
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Has anyone tried this item?
Will this, or something like it, replace energy faster than your body can metabolize your own fat storage? If you are Keto adapted of course.
Ken,
I have not tried this.
I personally do not think anything but carbs in liquid form will give your muscles the fastest and most usable energy if you are racing or riding at the highest effort "above endurance" levels.
This would be things like Time Trials rides/races or record attempts of greater than 90 minutes.
From what I have read and experienced your body still only has the capacity of metabolizing about 300 calories per hour regardless of your activity level.
Breaking down your fat for the energy your muscles need is still relatively slow, but if you are riding at a lower endurance level, then that is pretty much all you body needs.
The goal for long distance time trialing (for me anyway) of stuff like 100 miles or longer, is to drink liquid fuel (mostly carbs - but a good mix of other) so that the body has to use the least amount of energy to make that fuel usable to you for your effort.
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I made a bulletproof coffee this morning... blurry eyed I mistook the ginger for canela oddly enough it tastes refreshing with a bite and it's probably better for me.
 

ed72

Zen MBB Master
I know this is an old thread, I am a Bent Newbie, and I only read the first 4-5 pages. Just adding my two cents. I was fat adapted for 2 years and although not nowhere in the league athletically of many here, I had great results as an old Randonneur and also did the xyz cross country Bike Race, which is when I fell off the LCHF diet due to the only food available was garbage. I need to get back LCHF.

I an xyz with strips to measure my ketones in the morning and later in the day. I also used a power meter and xyz lactate meter and also glucose strips. Usually well less than 50g carbs per day initially and always in ketosis.

What I learned over the 2 years was that once adapted, my VT1 power was actually higher in output but my heart rate was lower than when I was on a more sugar based diet. VT2 did not really change....other than a bit when peaking. My fitness signature changed (I used xyz1, xyz2 and xyz3). I could put out (for me) a greater percentage of my modest FTP at a lower heart rate and with much less fatigue that I attribute to fewer ROS of fat oxidation versus glycogen. My muscles did not get sore.....I was like a machine...like the xyz4 Bunny . I wonder is other low carbers found less soreness after say 20-30 hours on the bike. It is like I went from a gas engine to turbo diesel.

What did this look like performance wise?

Let's say I was doing a 400K or 600K riding with a stronger rider on a DF or a Velomobile (usually I rode Solo). At the beginning, we on DF bikes might be doing the flats at 22-23 mph and 220-240 watts pulling and 160-170 sitting in. This is not hard for an hour or three but it would be a little harder for me than my companion because 240 is Tempo for me. What we all know happens is power drops at the event gets longer. Controlling or moderating that decline is key. My companion's power would drop faster and would have trouble holding my wheel. I saw this time and time again. I would be asked to slow down so they could hold my wheel. This is diet related in my mind. XYZ has efficiency factors and decoupling indices. My heart rate would actually decrease and put out more power.....never figured that one out....wierd. My Brevet times went down. Under 24 hours for 600k and under 14 hours for 400K. Hours less time. I could do a 400k hard and feel completely fresh. Like drive 10 hours home fresh.

I also learned that although bonking was impossible (plenty of ketones to keep the brain happy), higher power output does suffer if glycogen is gone and you do go a little slower but not a ton slower. I used to go on 200-300km rides without breakfast or food during the ride to try to cheaply estimate my RER although the price of having it done at Dr. 's former lab at UConn is not too expensive. I then experimented with how much "sugar" I could ingest and when and what types during a ride to avoid an insulin spike. This took me 6 months to figure out. I also experimented with ketone salts. What I found is my coffee with coconut oil before a ride was usually fine and then about 1 hour into a ride, I would consume around 100-150 calories per hour of a unique homebrew powder mix. I really never needed to eat anything for "short" 200K rides.

LFHC keto fat adaptation really paid off for me during Paris Brest Paris (1230 km Grande Randonnee). I rode with the fast(er) kids but made the mistake believing the controls would have food. We were so fast that the controls were just setting up and the other riders were largely supported unlike me who rode with no support. They got food from their crew. I got water from the fountain in the street. I rode the first 447 Km with around 13,000 feet of climbing in about 15 hours on two bottles with my fuel mix, one banana, and water. My muscles were out of glycogen at Tintineac (maybe at 365 km) at like 3 am and it was 39F. If I was not fat adapted, I NEVER would have made the next hilly 80 km in that cold. Nonetheless, there is a power price to pay and I knew I was in trouble. The anaerobic pathways were not accessible to jam over the short steep leg busters. The critical decision? What to do at sunrise when getting to Loudeac (447km into it)? I would have the hardest climbing 100 miles to Brest and the same 100 miles right back to Loudeac. I was pretty messed up energy wise despite being clear headed. I knew I had to replenish glycogen. I also knew to avoid an insulin spike. Lots of cold rice custard pudding (fat and resistent starch). Two huge bowls of hot whole milk chocolate. Some egg thing. I might even have had wheat but cannot remember. I pumped 1500-2000 Kcals in. Got back on the bike and began hammering the big climb out of there. Why? To temper or avoid the insulin spike. Certainly this remedy goes against dogma, but I recovered from what could have ended my ride (woulda been a serious bonk) to a pretty quick time.

The other strangeness was the improved efficiency. Calories per mile and efficiency factors in xyz. My VT1 heart rate is now seemingly permanently low now. VT1 is like Zone 2 pace. Before my 2 year Keto journey, I would make 190-195 watts at 120-125 BPM (lactate level determined). After adaptation, it was 220-225 watts at 103-108 BPM (again lactate). Now on a Bent, my power numbers are different but I still put out good aerobic power at low heart rates. I guess I'm a diesel.

Sorry rambling and grammar/spelling errors and disjointedness. I could not post because content was not allowed error and I deleted a bunch of stuff hoping it would post but made a mess of it all.
 

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I have just been reading an interesting article in a triathlon magazine about organic silicon being a compliment in your diet to get over all those aches and pains. Anyone tried this? It sounds like an April fall joke.
 
I have just been reading an interesting article in a triathlon magazine about organic silicon being a compliment in your diet to get over all those aches and pains. Anyone tried this? It sounds like an April fall joke.
I’ve seen these “organic silica” supplements advertised and they appear to significantly improve the wealth of the sellers. This Diatomaceous Earth has no known health benefits taken as a supplement.

There are studies, however. When it is used as a constructive matrix that provides drugs and biologically active intermediates in a controlled delivery. Possible uses may include orthopedic surgery.
 
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