Farther, Faster, Fitter, Fun - (4F - The unofficial Cruzbike training team and support group)

pedlpadl

Well-Known Member
Three trainer road workouts in, not including the FTP test. My cadence is low. When I first started riding six years ago, my cadence was around 88 on average. It's slowly gotten lower over the years. When I switched to the V20 it dropped to the mid 70's. I try to increase my cadence to 80 or higher, but as soon as my mind wanders it drops back down. I find if I pull up on the bars and sit up a little, it's easier to spin a higher cadence.
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
When I'm outside my cadence is about 90, when I would just spin on a trainer my cadence was 78. I could get it out to 90 inside but it would always fall back down as your describe. I found when I race or ride in zwift my cadence is around 90 just like outside but if it put on a movie and just spin I'll drop back to 78. These are my experiences.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Three trainer road workouts in, not including the FTP test. My cadence is low. When I first started riding six years ago, my cadence was around 88 on average. It's slowly gotten lower over the years. When I switched to the V20 it dropped to the mid 70's. I try to increase my cadence to 80 or higher, but as soon as my mind wanders it drops back down. I find if I pull up on the bars and sit up a little, it's easier to spin a higher cadence.


When I'm outside my cadence is about 90, when I would just spin on a trainer my cadence was 78. I could get it out to 90 inside but it would always fall back down as your describe. I found when I race or ride in zwift my cadence is around 90 just like outside but if it put on a movie and just spin I'll drop back to 78. These are my experiences.

Odd I wind up spinning about 95-115 on the trainer usually about 108. Outdoors I tend to drift towards 88-95.
I suspect I'm spinning faster because of the 155mm cranks; trading effort with heart and lungs to spare the wimpy muscle in my legs.

That said the V20 always seem to me to, try and tempt us all to be mashers.
 

trapdoor2

Zen MBB Master
Y'all are just trying to make me feel better. My outdoor avg is mid 70's.

There's a software fix for the spikes? I gotta get that update!
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Odd I wind up spinning about 95-115 on the trainer usually about 108. Outdoors I tend to drift towards 88-95.
I suspect I'm spinning faster because of the 155mm cranks; trading effort with heart and lungs to spare the wimpy muscle in my legs.
That said the V20 always seem to me to, try and tempt us all to be mashers.
I have the same issue - I think you can spin faster with smaller cranks, but it also matters what gear you are in with the KICKR. If you have it in a smaller cog, you will get more inertial effect from the flywheel which I think also helps you be able to keep the cadence high.
I used to be able to ride at 100+ for 4+ hours indoor or out, but that was a couple of years ago.
I think the age is catching up with me now - as it seems harder to stay on 100, especially if the wattage is low.
Just like today - I average 80 and was happy to drop into the mid 70's if I started reading something or doing something on-line. :D
(If I'm near or above my FTP - I am spinning as fast as I can just to stay up in that range!)
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I got a request from xpert33 to join the 4f trainer road group, but no other info if that's someone from this thread of if it's just someone random that thinks the group is interesting without knowing the goals. If that's anyone her drop me a private conversation and we'll get you setup.
 

PeteClark

Active Member
Has anyone tried mounting an indoor trainer on a turntable (think industrial strength lazy susan) so that the trainer, fork, and boom could rotate. This might give a more realistic MBB experience, help smooth out the pedal stroke, and engage the arms during max efforts. Might need to experiment with just where to place the trainer relative to the turntable's center of rotation to get the most realistic feel.
 

snilard

Guru of hot glue gun
Has anyone tried mounting an indoor trainer on a turntable (think industrial strength lazy susan) so that the trainer, fork, and boom could rotate. This might give a more realistic MBB experience, help smooth out the pedal stroke, and engage the arms during max efforts. Might need to experiment with just where to place the trainer relative to the turntable's center of rotation to get the most realistic feel.
I have implemented this:
It doesn't feel like on road because Your weight is centering You but it is more natural than just static trainer.
 

LarryOz

Cruzeum Curator & Sigma Wrangler
Has anyone tried mounting an indoor trainer on a turntable (think industrial strength lazy susan) so that the trainer, fork, and boom could rotate. This might give a more realistic MBB experience, help smooth out the pedal stroke, and engage the arms during max efforts. Might need to experiment with just where to place the trainer relative to the turntable's center of rotation to get the most realistic feel.
I fall over too much in the "wild", I would hate to see me fall down in my garage! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 

BJ686

Well-Known Member
I have implemented this: It doesn't feel like on road because Your weight is centering You but it is more natural than just static trainer.

I have tried this as well, and as Snilard notes your weight centers you. Frankly, for me (at a little over 200 pounds), it really didn't have any different action/motion than if I had just put the tire on the ground, so I quit doing it. Might work better for someone on the lighter weight side.

Would be interested in hearing if anyone tries the turntable approach. Would need a fairly big turntable to accommodate a trainer footprint, or perhaps one could buy a small exercise type turntable and put a piece of plywood on it to support the trainer.
 

snilard

Guru of hot glue gun
I have tried this as well, and as Snilard notes your weight centers you. Frankly, for me (at a little over 200 pounds), it really didn't have any different action/motion than if I had just put the tire on the ground, so I quit doing it. Might work better for someone on the lighter weight side.
It work's for me. But it is different from real ride. I am about 58 kg- 128 pounds. I think that it also depends on length of rope connecting bike with ceiling. Mine is about 1,6 m. Longer is better.
 

Gary123

Zen MBB Master
It doesn't feel like on road because Your weight is centering You but it is more natural than just static trainer.[/QUOTE]
Pretty cool where did u attach rope to bike?
 

snilard

Guru of hot glue gun
Pretty cool where did u attach rope to bike?
I changed my rear wheel to super strong 12" wheel from my kick bike. I don't want to damage my fancy wheel. I am not using rope but strap. So the strap goes around the tire and rim. I have Thor seat so my head is more up and front compared to original seat/headrest. The strap clears my headrest nicely but it wouldn't work with original seat/headrest.
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
Looking at the zwift workout in more detail and yeah there's a real lack of depth when you start clicking through everything. I looked at the 12 week FTP builder and I wonder how legitimate it is when you almost never exceed you current FTP in any of the workouts for even the shorter blocks. @ratz are the FTP builder sessions from trainer road similar in regard to not many over FTP efforts? Of all the workout folders on zwift the Hunter's challenge seems to have the most variety as well as a good mix of hard efforts.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Looking at the zwift workout in more detail and yeah there's a real lack of depth when you start clicking through everything. I looked at the 12 week FTP builder and I wonder how legitimate it is when you almost never exceed you current FTP in any of the workouts for even the shorter blocks. @ratz are the FTP builder sessions from trainer road similar in regard to not many over FTP efforts? Of all the workout folders on zwift the Hunter's challenge seems to have the most variety as well as a good mix of hard efforts.

Well so......

The workouts in Zwift are getting better. What you are seeing is that SweetSpot training is in vogue; it's the best bang for the buck time wise; the theory being that you can get 85-90% of the quality gains from sweet spot and you can do sweet pot workouts 3 - 5 times a week without burning out or getting beat up and injured. Versus only being able to do 2 days of 100% efforts which require more recovery.

Hunter's Challenge is coming from Peaks Coaching Group aka Hunter Allen co founder of TrainingPeaks. They know what they are doing and that's a good all around training plan; albeit it short at 4 weeks. It's a V02Max work focused routine great for when getting final tune ups for event season.

The 2 FTP builder plans are good for those that want to be strong on rides <= 1.5 hours in length; it's target at the Tuesday night Drop Ride people. It's not a very well round plan. It works but it will make you a mouth breather than can't talk on the bike. You really need a solid base before doing that or you get limited results.

The new Winter Plan looks like an proper base plan. That's new this year; and it addresses the need to do something before FTP builder.

The Time Trial stuff is garbage; that's not how you train for TT unless it's like 20 minutes long.

8 wk Race Day Prep is pretty generic doesn't say what type of racing it's focusing on. It's sort of Criterium like but then again it's not.

So in general right now there one reasonable path through the Zwift stuff:

12 Week winter Plan; 10 Week FTP builder plan starting at week 3 and stoping at week 12; then doing hunters challenge. That's 26 weeks total and a good off season plan is going to be 24-28 weeks long.

The problem is they provide zero guidance in there plans so results will depend on what people understand.

A real nice option is TodaysPlan. Which lets you sign up and get customized training plans for your goals; those plans include workouts that you and load into: Zwift, TrainerRoad, GarminConnect, etc; and then ride them on your platform of choice. So without a private coach your options in order is; TrainerRoad, TodaysPlan, and Zwift those are the top 3 in that order for completeness and usability.

Competition is good and all three continue to get better.
 

RojoRacing

Donut Powered Wise-guy
:lol as soon as I start to contemplate trying one or two workouts you come in and start gushing about all these plans. Yes I realize that is exactly what I asked for with my last question but for some reason as soon as you start talking plans over individual workout I start seeing the big picture your pointing at and when my eyes focus on it I'm can't help but go NOPE. It's like an involuntary response kind of like a gag reflex. Currently I just can't consider indoor training or plans as end game because as soon as I get back outside it's back to my old ways of doing what I wan't and feeling it out as I go. I'm estimating I'll only be stuck inside till the end of Feburary so if I was to ever try out a few of these works now would be the best time. With Sebring most likely off my list I looking at a double century beginning of March so I wont need 24hr TT training plan workouts, I'll need more rolling efforts to put the hurt on during the climbs and recover on the DH's. I need to be able to avg watts in a DC to over 200 with my best last year being like mid 180's.
 

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
I'll need more rolling efforts to put the hurt on during the climbs and recover on the DH's. I need to be able to avg watts in a DC to over 200 with my best last year being like mid 180's.

:lol as soon as I start to contemplate trying one or two workouts

Opps sorry I really didn't answer that one question

Any 40k TT plan or sustained power plan will contain the workouts your want. Your mental aversion to training or admitting that what you do is interval traing mister hill repeat guy.....is why you'd be suited for the low volume plan. With that you'd have to commit To two quality trainer rides per week indoors; and everything else outside with the group.

Day 1 each week would be a variety of rides that look like Zwift TT#2 workout
Day 2 would look like the TT#3...

done on rainy days or on a Mon, Wed or Tue, Thurs pairing......

Obviously would need more variety that two; but that's how they'd look:
Day 1: bursty v02max/anaerobic work
Day 2 v02max/threshold work
 
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