Farther, Faster, Fitter, Fun - (4F - The unofficial Cruzbike training team and support group)

[LarryOz]

is there some link that can demystify the training programs

Ratz is the link!

 

[ratz]

LOL you're not alone Trapdoor. I'm going through the same process with the Neo. At least you have a smart phone so you aren't starting from the very bottom. I thought ant+ was an ant poison for the yard and Blue teeth meant you needed a trip to the dentist. It seems insane to make a product that runs off your puter but you need the iphone or ipad type devices to get the updates! I'm hooked up but have no idea what I'm hooked to. But one thing, I can recognize a rabbit. Plenty of them here. Unfortunately, all these rabbits run like hail.

Ratz is there some link that can demystify the training programs.

Yeah I'm not too keen on the "everyone has a smart phone" approach to current hardware vendors, Wahoo, Tacx, Cycleops, Cinq etc etc all guilty. The way of the world now.

So define demystify?

The best place to start really is Dcrainmaker he covered the 27 different packages activity being developed at least one of those will likely align everyone wants/needs.


https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/trainer-apps-guide.html
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/product-comparison-calculator?type=trainer-apps#select

I think most people will settle in on one of the following:

BKOOL
FulGaz
KinoMap
Road Grand Tours
Sufferfest
TrainerRoad
Virtual Training (CycleOps)
Zwift

If you only read up on those I think you will be able to pick 1 to focus on. I have used all of them excluding Road Grand Tours and all of them are quality products

 

[trplay]

So define demystify?

That is a bit hard to do amongst the confusion. I've read those links and get it. The demystifying is inside the training program itself. We have about seven weeks till Sebring. The swift program has looked at my power numbers and recommends giving up cycling. They suggested sewing. Zwift has the programs but none really fit the available timeframe. However you can make custom programs with zwift. I'm thinking the Training wrecks one ya'll are using will work but I'm on the 7 day free zwift trial and want to focus on zwift until it expires. Not try to learn two separate systems at the same time. So, I'm thinking I custom build the training wreck program on zwift for the week then jump over to the training plan app when zwift expires. The plan is to take my time and try several cycling apps before buying. Does that make any sense at all?

 

[trapdoor2]

The holidaze have me completely screwed up. Every time I book some time for myself and the trainer, I end up getting home just in time to flop and pass out (from holiday exhaustion, unfortunately. I'm long past the days when I could blame it on the volatiles in my drinks). I'll get there...but I read up on the trainer or the software and then it is nearly a week before I get to try that knowledge out. My elderly brain ain't up to a task that broken up.

I am looking forward to the day where I can simply flop on the trainer, choose the next ride on the schedule and go!

 

[ratz]

That is a bit hard to do amongst the confusion. I've read those links and get it. The demystifying is inside the training program itself. We have about seven weeks till Sebring. The swift program has looked at my power numbers and recommends giving up cycling. They suggested sewing. Zwift has the programs but none really fit the available timeframe. However you can make custom programs with zwift. I'm thinking the Training wrecks one ya'll are using will work but I'm on the 7 day free zwift trial and want to focus on zwift until it expires. Not try to learn two separate systems at the same time. So, I'm thinking I custom build the training wreck program on zwift for the week then jump over to the training plan app when zwift expires. The plan is to take my time and try several cycling apps before buying. Does that make any sense at all?

Yeah that makes sense. It depends on how much fitness you carried from the summer season; you were knocking out good mileage and probably had the aerobic base. The major obstacle is the time to Sebring. You can go for one of two goals.

Goal (1) if Fitness isn't good enough to ride the hours that your shooting for. If that's the case then In zwift workout mode do the 12wk Winter Plan. Week 1 is the perfect place to start.

Goal (2) If fitness is good and you just want a higher average speed. Then do the 6wk beginner FTP Builder. Start with Week 1


Now here is the good news; Zwift and TrainerRoad while they have an "annual" price can be "paused/canceled" and "resumed" and any time. The are both $10-12 a month. So you can commit without committing.

Footnote: I just spent time in the zwift user interface tonight looking at this and man I hate that program it's so cartoonish and annoying to navigate; if not for the game-ification pull I have to think most people would run away screaming. Just looking through their work out plans took 50x the effort it should have.

 

[ratz]

What if one were to simply take the FTP test every day taking a break every so often?

One would have sore legs and not make very many gains. But you'd be really good at riding fast for either 8 or 20 minutes depending on which test you did; you'd probably also gain weight from the glucose cravings. This would be the same as going to the tack and practicing the 100 yard dash; while training to run the mile. You get more enjoyment and benefit out of the Cyclops app riding their video rides.

Riding the trainer is interesting. Week 1 is ok I can do this. Week 2 is like why am I doing this boring thing; and week 3 is I'm into it and I get restless if I don't get my fix I am now addicted. something to do with that old 21 days to a habit comes into play.

I hadn't thought about it but, this old document might be of use in this thread too for people trying to grok what an ERG training software actually does. See attached.

 

[LarryOz]

What if one were to simply take the FTP test every day taking a break every so often?

Now - If one where to do: say my 90 minute FTP ramp test (every other day) - and good rest alternating days, I think you would see gradual FTP and endurance improvement.
But - IMHO - structured training with variety would be better and less boring:
You need some intervals way above your FTP to help your VO2 max - so you can build more matches for short sprints and be able to keep going hard after sprinting
You need intervals just below your FTP to help you now how to suffer an the hairy edge of blowing up but keep going
You need some long endurance riding to help - well help build your endurance.
You need to rest between the really hard stuff, because that is where you body actually repairs itself and makes you stronger
Mostly you need consistence time with all four of the above!

Ride hard - rest harder - have fun!

 

[cranky cyclist]

One would have sore legs and not make very many gains. But you'd be really good at riding fast for either 8 or 20 minutes depending on which test you did; you'd probably also gain weight from the glucose cravings. This would be the same as going to the tack and practicing the 100 yard dash; while training to run the mile. You get more enjoyment and benefit out of the Cyclops app riding their video rides.

Riding the trainer is interesting. Week 1 is ok I can do this. Week 2 is like why am I doing this boring thing; and week 3 is I'm into it and I get restless if I don't get my fix I am now addicted. something to do with that old 21 days to a habit comes into play.

I hadn't thought about it but, this old document might be of use in this thread too for people trying to grok what an ERG training software actually does. See attached.

Are you referencing the Heinlein book Stranger in a Strange Land? The word grok is used in that book.

 

[cranky cyclist]

I like Larry's plan!

 

[trapdoor2]

I hadn't thought about it but, this old document might be of use in this thread too for people trying to grok what an ERG training software actually does. See attached.

Thanks Ratz, that sort of stuff helps me a lot.

 

[ratz]

Are you referencing the Heinlein book Stranger in a Strange Land? The word grok is used in that book.

CC for the win; rarely do I encounter anyone that knows the origins of that nerd word. Still a personal favorite. As long time unix admin it goes well with sed awk ls lint grep cat; because if you don't grok when to grep what you sed in your pipe then you are not a useful unix admin.....

Wait we are talking about bikes right?

 

[super slim]

Ratz, was the Unix language developed in Scotland, as it sounds Scottish???

 

[LarryOz]

I have run into a snafu with the Zwift app. Zwift, best I can tell is designed for one person per subscription which makes sense. But I need an App that allows myself and Ms. daisy to use which accounts for our different FTP. In other words, allows multiple users that separates their indivdual workouts while basing them on the different FTP's. Is there a way to do this or is there another app out there that will?

From my understanding all the accounts (Zwift, TR, TP, Strava) - are all one-user type accounts.
Of course nothing is probably preventing you each from logging into the same user and using it - but like you said - it is going to be based on a specific FTP - so only way around that is to be constantly toggling the FTP back and forth as each of you use it.
That would obviously mess up any stats gathered. I don't see a way around it, unless someone creates a "family" plan, which I doubt would happen, as then people would group together as virtual families to get a better rate..
Maybe there is something else out there that I'm not familiar with - Ratz if anyone would probably know.

 

[ratz]

From my understanding all the accounts (Zwift, TR, TP, Strava) - are all one-user type accounts.
Of course nothing is probably preventing you each from logging into the same user and using it - but like you said - it is going to be based on a specific FTP - so only way around that is to be constantly toggling the FTP back and forth as each of you use it.
That would obviously mess up any stats gathered. I don't see a way around it, unless someone creates a "family" plan, which I doubt would happen, as then people would group together as virtual families to get a better rate..
Maybe there is something else out there that I'm not familiar with - Ratz if anyone would probably know.

The only one that we were able to "Share" any subscription was CycleOps on Apples iOS with that, 1 subscription to the application would let multiple people ride as long as you had multiple iPads to keep the app loaded. Thus allowing individual settings. The "web" logins are free with that one and that's why it works; you only pay for the "app"

IF you want share an account you'll be able to with TR, Zwift. But in those cases you'll need a spreadsheet to track you workout "plan" and you'll need to update your FTP before starting each ride. It will work but you might find quickly that it's more annoying than the $87 cost (after discount code). The one nice thing is the "no commit" cancel/pause at anytime of both Zwift and TR

 

[Layne]

CC for the win; rarely do I encounter anyone that knows the origins of that nerd word. Still a personal favorite. As long time unix admin it goes well with sed awk ls lint grep cat; because if you don't grok when to grep what you sed in your pipe then you are not a useful unix admin.....

Wait we are talking about bikes right?

That sounds painful !!! lol !! Is there a cognitive threshold or functional brain power .... i.e. FBP for computer programmers and IT people ?

 

[RojoRacing]

Racing into shape has always been my go to method.

https://chrisdurham.me/2016/12/23/has-zwift-racing-made-workouts-redundant/

 

[DavidCH]

Ratz, was the Unix language developed in Scotland, as it sounds Scottish???

Nope, it was invented by a yank on LSD

 

[DavidCH]

Racing into shape has always been my go to method.

https://chrisdurham.me/2016/12/23/has-zwift-racing-made-workouts-redundant/

After that 320 ride today, I have brain fuzz ... How do you fix that?

 

[RojoRacing]

Probably a lack of sugar, try eating a donut

 

[ratz]

As I noted earlier the Ultra Sweet Spot Plans were released a little ahead of time.

I've updated the original post and here is the final version Which has been:

1. Tweaked with some ride changes for better progressive balance.
2. Color coded green for foundation rides and yellow for skip these if over tired
3. A decision/deltas table was added to help people compare plans and time commitments for each.

Beginners don't over-reach. There is nothing wrong with riding low volume; there really is no place to hide in these plans you will get riding them if you pick the one you can handle.

Just to be clear again these are :

1. Not for the aerobically compromised riders
2. Not for the rider that has weight loss as primary goal.
3. These were specifically put together for year 2 or 3 returning riders and for those that have completed a MAF 12 week cycle and are not ready yet for a build phase.

Any one already on one of the plans; just sub in the new schedule the changes on the front weeks is minimal and you haven't done any harm riding the off the previous version.

Disclaimer: You're an adult you if you get injured, sick or your spouse leaves you for spending too much time on the trainer it's your fault, and you don't get to blame me. If you however you become a beast and start winning races left and right; well then obviously it was the 90% plan and 10% effort.

Enjoy.....