First Silvio ride was a wash...literally

[castlerobber]

It was raining when I picked my new-to-me Silvio 1.5 up from the LBS yesterday, so I was determined to get at least a short ride in this afternoon after work. I hadn't been on the road more than 10 minutes when dark clouds started moving in from the north. I turned for home and started trying to put on some speed; but between my inexperience with DoubleTap shifters and the already-iffy shifting (my fault, poorly matched components), I managed to throw the chain off the big ring just as the downpour started. Fortunately, a man working in his yard across the road saw that I was having trouble and invited me in to wait out the rain with him and his family. (It's a small town, his wife's aunt goes to church with my husband, or some such.)

Half an hour after I got home from that failed attempt, the sun had come out and the storm clouds were gone, so I headed out again. The Silvio handled just as well as I remembered from the test ride in January. I rode 7 miles at an average of 12.9 mph. Not exactly blazing speed, but within 0.2 mph of my road bike speed on the same course last week. I stayed in the small ring the whole time; if I had been confident enough to shift into the big ring for the flats and downhills, I believe I could have easily surpassed my road bike time.

I still have some fine-tuning to do. I've worked out an exchange of my undersized outer chainring for a more suitable one. The reach to the pedals is a bit short, and the reach to the brifters is a bit long, but those are easily remedied. I also need to find a small bag that will fit under the seat for phone, keys, spare tube, etc. The Fastback Norback frame bag looks like it might work, but suggestions are always welcome.

Once I get things like I want them, I'll post pictures.

 

[Jeremy S]

Exciting! I hope you work out the shifting.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Looking forward to seeing the bike when you have it all customized and dialed in.

Was going to use Solo Racer bags (made by Radical Bags) under the seat of the Silvio. You can do a forum search to see some good pics and tips, just search 'under seat bags on Silvio' or similar, it should come up.

Kline

 

[ReklinedRider]

Never mind. That search yields nothing on the new forum. Use Google, underseat location for solo racer wide bag, and it will come up. Sadly, some of the images from that post did not survive the transition to the new forum.

 

[Robert Holler]

You picked up the bike from the LBS but the front DR was over shifting the big ring? That is not inexperience with the double taps on your part - that is just a bad tune up job (or no tune up) on the part of the LBS. Seems they did not test ride or test shift and set the limit screws properly.

You should be able to go full gusto (no babying) on that shifter paddle and go right into the big ring with zero overshift. Same thing going to the small ring.

 

[castlerobber]

Robert, in their defense, they couldn't get the derailleur low enough to accommodate the 46T outer ring I had on there originally. They told me when I picked the bike up that they weren't pleased with the shifting, calling it "acceptable" but not good. It shifted correctly the first time or two I tried, but it hasn't worked since. I already have an appointment set up to take the Silvio back in once I get the larger chainring, and a PM in to Steve (scabinetguy) about the bracket he makes that will let us move the derailleur closer to the rings.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Betsy, fwiw, the 52T Rotor Q-ring I ran on that bike fit the FD and FD stem perfectly and upshifted from the 39T flawlessly-- so smoothly and quietly I found myself looking down to make sure it had shifted. SRAM double tap shifts like butter when all dialed in.
I'm for sure not one of the power riders, and used the big ring a large percentage of the time. Of course this is Mississippi so we don't have the hills they do in other parts of the world but still, I agree with what Ratz said elsewhere: the Q ring feels easier than a much smaller round ring. All that to say, definitely try the 50, maybe even the 52. No need to take a hacksaw to your FD stem!

As an aside, I put those Q rings on my Sofrider, and echoing Robert's comments on another thread..."ahhh....!!" Now that's riding! I don't care that the Sofrider is not a go-fast bike, those Qrings are like music to my knees ;-)

KM

 

[Lief]

Seems they did not test ride or test shift and set the limit screws properly.

Robert, there is only one LBS that I know of that can test ride my cruzbike, and its 200 miles away - in Portland.

When I was having my LBS tune my bike the first couple years, we had an arrangement. They twiddle the screws and I'll twiddle the pedals.

 

[castlerobber]

Lief, by their own admission, none of the mechanics can do much more than wobble across the parking lot. I keep offering to bring my Quest and teach them how to ride it, but no one's taken me up on it yet.

I was in the LBS end of last week, talking with a young mechanic I hadn't met before. When he realized which bike was mine--"That black one?!"
"Yes."
"It's kind of non-traditional..."
"Yes, it is!" [lol]
"What we all want to know is, how the h**l do you steer it?" And then he got embarrassed because he'd cussed in front of a female.
When I stopped laughing..."Um, turn the handlebar and lean? How do you steer your bike?"
"But don't you hit your feet?"
"Well, no...but if I have to make a 90-degree turn, I can just take my feet off the pedals."
"Oh! We thought that must be it."

Kline, it dawned on me tonight that the 42T e-ring on my Quest is 110 BCD. Since I've taken the 46T Q-ring off the Silvio and sent it back, I decided to move the e-ring to the Silvio and make it a 1 x 10 until the larger Q-ring comes in. I won't have a chance to try it out until tomorrow.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Clever approach to get it working while waiting, and get some riding in....I like it!

Which of our LBS's do you use? When I get done with my Sofrider makeover maybe I'll drop in there and give them a look at another "non-traditional" bike ;-)

 

[castlerobber]

The Bike Rack is the closest traditional LBS to me, so I use them most of the time. I've taken the Kettwiesel to Indian Cycle once, and had Revolution out to the house when several of the bikes needed work at the same time.

 

[ReklinedRider]

I always forget about Revolution but I hear they do good work.

 

[castlerobber]

Took the Silvio for a half-hour ride with the e-ring Tuesday. Not bad, just a little lumpy. Adjusted it this afternoon. Better--not optimal, but it's only going to be on there another week and a half, so it'll do.

Even so, I'm matching or slightly exceeding my road bike speeds, even on the (admittedly short) uphills. The gearing on the road bike and the temporary gearing on the Silvio are nearly identical.

 

[castlerobber]

Making some progress...

Got the Silvio back Friday from being re-adjusted for the 50T Q-ring. Shifting is a lot better, but not completely right. An upshift on the front can still throw the chain off to the outside if I'm on too small a cog on the cassette. I've never ridden a bike or trike with a double chainring before--I've always had triples, and stayed mostly in the middle ring--so I'm having to learn new shifting patterns, and which gear combinations to avoid.

The LBS mechanic had tried to orient the Q-rings for me without having actually checked my lower dead spot/bottom dead center. He said he just took a guess where it ought to be. Yeah...not so much. It had me pedaling squares. Thirty minutes at home of my following Rotor's recumbent instructions fixed that.

I rode 20 miles today with a women's beginner/intermediate group, and managed to hang in fairly well. I'm pleased with how the Silvio climbs so far. Now to get the engine in shape.

 

[ReklinedRider]

Glad you got your q-ring adjusted but troubling that your chain comes off. Have you tried dialing your outer limit screw back just a little?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

Have you tried dialing your outer limit screw back just a little?

+1 - That's exactly what I would suggest too. Just a tiny bit though, until it does not over shift.

 

[castlerobber]

Have you tried dialing your outer limit screw back just a little?

Not yet, but I'll give it a try this weekend.

How many usable cogs (12-36 10-speed) should I have when I'm on the big ring? I know not to cross-chain to the 36T cog, and that the 32T is probably too sharp a chain angle as well. The chain was rubbing when I tried to use the 28T--a not-so-subtle audible cue to drop to the small ring on the front. I have a SRAM Force 22 Yaw front derailleur.

 

[ReklinedRider]

I usually tried to stay out of the largest two cogs when in the big Q-ring but that's a question I hope some of the more experienced and knowledgeable bike mechanics will chime in on! Until just over a year ago I had rarely done much more than change the occasional flat so better to get more definitive advice than any I could offer.

 

[ratz]

A 50/36 combined with a 12-36 should give a combination where they are all usable even if severally cross chained. Nice to be able to do that in an emergency even when you know you shouldn't. There are two reasons they wouldn't would be all usable: (1) if the Qrings are out of phase relative to each other. (2) you are really short causing the angle of attack on the chain to be really steep. Lastly A 52/34 would rub on the inside of the bigger ring when trying to reach a 11T in the back when in the 34T on the front.

Points of reference. 52/36 an 11-32 Silvio all usable. 52/34 and an 11-32 Silvio, all but 34-11 and sometimes 34-12 usable.

For the over shift; I would redo the Yaw derailleur setup from scratch; while it's a touch harder to setup with q-rings it can be done; but it's not like setting up a traditional derailleur. The video help alot. The Force Yaw 22 on my Silvio never mis shifts; but I'll admit it that didn't happen in 1 try... or 2 ... or 3 but this year it's rock solid perfect.... well until it's not.

 

[Rick Youngblood]

I have no experience with the S 1.5, but from what I can see looking at online pic's of them, the front end looks identical to the S 2.

This is my case, with everything working perfectly or near perfectly.

SILVIO 2.0
50t Q-ring x 34t Q-ring.
Long cage Sram rear-derailleur.
13t to 42t 10 speed XT customized cassette
Sram Force 22 Yaw FD (this thing is key, at least in my opinion for the wide range, and chain rub)

VENDETTA 2.0
52t Q-ring x 34t Q-ring.
Long cage Sram rear-derailleur.
13t to 42t 10 speed XT customized cassette
Sram Force 22 Yaw FD (this thing is key, at least in my opinion for the wide range, and chain rub)

It takes some fine tuning/incremental adjustments to get the Yaw to shift without chain drops and /or FD rubs. I'm extremely happy with this setup and could not have it better.

I access to all gear ranges. Big to big and small to small. Small to small has a tiny amount chain over lap, and is something I only use for a short periods before I go up or back down a gear. The Big to big gets used quite often. It's also my starting from dead stop gear range. I'm able to eliminate all chain rub on the FD side to side and bottom. My shifts are quite good, I'm picky and can't stand miss-shifts or ghost shifting.

I just can't understand why your LB can't get it fixed for you. They should at least be able to get the shifting tuned so you don't drop the chain. I would suggest trying an other bike shop.

EDIT: I should mention: I don't go by the 2mm rule for the FD, otherwise the chain will rub in BIG-ring/small-cog on the bottom of the FD cage. I slide the FD up until there is about 1mm of clearance on the bottom of the FD cage.