Help with Silvio 1.0 setup please

[telephd]

Greetings to the forum. I just picked up a new to me Silvio 1.0 and cant wait to get her on the road. Ive been riding recumbents for around a year and have been wanting a Silvio for its reputation as a superior climber. Found one locally and picked it up on Sunday. The guy I bought the bike from is every bit of 6'4" and Im 5'11" so there is a bit of cockpit adjustment as you might imagine. I test rode the bike as it was set up and managed not to kill myself.

When I got it home I downloaded the assembly instructions . I could not find a parts list so many of the acronyms used in the instructions make little sense to me. Does anyone have a copy of the 1.0 parts list?

With the assembly instructions in hand I went down to the shop and put the bike on my trainer so I could do some adjustments. I proceeded to adjust the leg length getting it pretty close. My challenges started when I tried to adjust the reach to the handlebars. I tightened the lower clamp and loosened the upper clamp and gave the bars a push thinking that the stem would insert further into the boom. That did not happen but the boom slid down and thereby lengthened the pedal length. I went back and forth and finally loosened both upper and lower clamps and compressed the bars and bottom bracket shell as much as I could. After this drastic adjustment the reach to the bar is better but the leg length remains too long and I cant adjust it further. I will most likely have to move the FD and resize all of the cables but wont do so until I can get the fit right.

The shorter version of the story is Im in need of some help. I searched the forum and online for some directions on properly fitting a 1.0 and came up pretty empty-handed. Read a post that suggested that the boom might need to be cut/shortened but that is not a step I would consider without tremendous consideration. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks, Hal

 

[Jeremy S]

From the 1.0 manual:Arm and

From the 1.0 manual:

Arm and Leg Adjustments

Once assembled, please note the following critical procedure for adjusting the leg length or arm reach on your new Silvio:

1 ) loosen the BB ring clamps SV33R and SV33L around the bottom bracket.

2 ) release the quick release front axle skewer.

3 ) loosen the Main Boom 34.9 clamp for leg adjustment and or the Stem Sleeve 34.9 clamp for leg and arm reach adjustment.

4 ) adjust as required

5 ) retighten the 34.9 clamps.

6 ) retighten the BB ring clamps.

7 ) secure the quick release front axle skewer

8 ) sight along the Front Chainstay SV31 to verify that it is straight, not held in a curved position.

You don't mention loosening the BB (bottom bracket) ring clamps, or the front wheel skewer. It's important to do that in addition to loosening one of the clamps on the boom, otherwise you are bending the carbon fiber chainstay (part of the suspension) when you try to make an adjustment. You could damage the carbon fiber. Note step ( 8 ), make sure the carbon fiber stays straight.

 

[telephd]

Thanks Jeremy.  After I

Thanks Jeremy. After I posted I went back and reread that part of the instructions too. I did not loosen the BB ring clamps but did the skewer because I had to move the lever from one side to the other to accomodate the trainer mounts. The acrnonyms for the ring clamps were not apparent to me before.

Ill update when I follow all of the directions ;-)

 

[telephd]

Done and per the instructions

Done and per the instructions there is no bend in the carbon chain stays. I think that I will have to rearrange the steertube spacers because the bars feel a bit too tall to me. Ill go for a ride tomorrow and do some parking lot exercises and see how it feels. When my wife gets home Ill have her take a pic of my position and post it for comments. I would appreciate any "correct position" shots that anyone might share. thanks again Jeremy!

 

[Ivan]

I don't think there is much

I don't think there is much adjustment in those steering tube spacers for height adjustment. At 5' 11" your BB is prob quite low which would bring your handlebars up that much higher. Good for us to see a good side-view pic and hear more of your preferences as to how you feel about your current position.

 

[Martinl]

I am very much like you, just

I am very much like you, just acquired my Silvio 1. The previous rider must be more than 6 ' and l am only 5,6".
The first mod l did was to cut off the base of the boom by 80mm. The length is correct now but my knees
hit the bar :-( To rectification the problem l cut off the bar clamp and fitted an pivoting elbow stem extension,
now l am ready. The first couple of rides was terrible, l wonder why a person would design a bike with your legs
fighting the steering. After few more days of training in big carpark l learn to relax abit, and instead of gripping
the handles tight l now hold loose and push the control with my back firmly on the seat instead of pulling,
before and shifting the bar out of alignment. I do not think l will be game enough to ride with cars on the road. This bike
cannot guarantee a straight line ride. /sites/default/files/ckfinder/files/IMG_20141119_190343.jpg

I will be converting my silvio to electric, this will help with hills and stationary start at lights and crossings.
I will install a Bafang small hub running 36v at 500 watts. It will be a quick install and remove on the back wheel.
I will keep the original back wheel and build a new electric wheel. Should be a more friendly bike

 

[Andrew 1973]

"This bike cannot guarantee a

"This bike cannot guarantee a straight line ride."

We're all entitled to our opinions and some rides will have very different experiences, but I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. As for "legs fighting the steering", that is something that I initially dealt with until I learned to relax and use my legs in concert with my arms to steer the bike.

My first ride on my Silvio when I finally committed to riding on roads where I would have to deal with motor traffic was a slightly unnerving experience. I was fine until I was about to be passed by a car, then I became tensed and worried that I might veer off of my line and into a passing car. It wasn't until I developed confidence and competence in the handling of my Silvio that those fears subsided. Within a few days, I was able to handle the busiest of roads on my commute without fear.

I am now able to ride hands-free and can steer the Silvio through a cul de sac with just steering inputs from my feet. It has taken me time to get to this point; I've owned my Silvio since May 2013.

On a side note, I do like your necessary modification with the pivot stem. It may have been a "happy accident" as the late Bob Ross would say. You have added a level of adjustability to your cockpit that you may not have had before.

 

[Robert Holler]

Plenty straight and steady

Plenty straight and steady once the miles have been put in. I agree that at first I wondered if I could ever go over 18 mph. After the end of the season these bikes are the most stable I have ever been on of any 2-wheel recumbent or upright, especially on downhills.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204227470625988&set=vb.1204144932&type=3&theater

 

[Liam in Ireland]

Novel Option for Handlebar Attachment

Just like Martinl when I first got my Silvio 1.0 in 2011 I thought the handling was impossible. Now I will happily take the Silvio on any road where I would feel comfortable on a DF bike. Keep with it Martinl, you wont regret it.

You've certainly come up with a great innovation with the adjustable stem you've fitted. Until I saw your picture I had no idea such a product was on the market. One question - the Satori website lists the steerer diameter as 28.6MM & I measure the steerer on the Silvio 1.0 as 30MM - did you get it to fit OK?

 

[Rick Youngblood]

...these bikes are the most

...these bikes are the most stable I have ever been on of any 2-wheel recumbent or upright, especially on downhills.

I can't agree more with Robert's comment, but only to add -->> ULTRA STABLE!

 

[Martinl]

Satori stem

I dremeled out around 0.5 - 1 mm to make it fit.
I got mine here..l use it on my mtb bikes.
http://www.cyclingdeal.com.au/buy/satori-up2-bike-bicycle-stem-riser-extension-1-1-8/TDS-D480-8

 

[Ivan]

Keep going at it and soon a

Keep going at it and soon a straight line will not be a problem. I do plenty of urban riding and squeezing in between vehicles at traffic lights - and this is on a more reclined Silvio 2.

I'd love to see that Bafang hub motor on your Silvio. I can't help but thinking of SuperPedestrian's Copenhagen wheel as that would require no wires at all! My friend has pre-ordered one and I can't wait to see it.

Excellent application of that adjustable stem. I'm putting your (Martin's) pic directly here so others can see it without clicking on the URL.

 

[Jeremy S]

I'm glad Martinl seems to

I'm glad Martinl seems to have found a good fit, but I don't see any point in first cutting off part of the boom, and then adding an extension to it to lengthen it again. The adjustable stem looks to be adjusted straight in the photo, so I don't think it's giving any benefit over the regular boom (although in theory it could be used to change the handlebar height). We like to talk about boom flex, power delivery, and weight on this forum, and I doubt the extension is helping in those areas. I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone else do this to their just-purchased Silvio.

 

[telephd]

Holy thread drift

Holy thread drift Batman...

Just got back from my inagural ride. Road about 16 miles on one of the local bike paths. In short I had a blast! Here are some of my initial observations and also a response to other posts:

Ivan, Ive attached a pic to show the current orientation of the spacer stack. There is about 2.7cm in those 3 spacers. That might not be much in the way of lowering the handlebars but I would think it would help some. In my haste to get going this afternoon I left both camera and phone at home so no profile shot yet. I didnt get quite enough leg extension with my shop adjustment and couldnt adjust enough on the ride because I couldnt loosen the inboard BB ring clamp with my tri-wrench. I also had some knee strike at the top of the stroke but that shouldnt continue to be a problem once I get the leg extension correct.

As with my test ride with the bike fit for a big guy, I found the bike to be pretty easy to handle. I did wobble a bit initially and then periodically throughout the ride but it got progressively better. I dare say I had many hundred meters of "straight riding." I managed one-handed coasting and pedaling with both hands and even got the water bottle out for a drink a couple of times.

The seat took a bit to get used to. Im used to much more recline on my Corsa and have a POC fiberglass seat with ventist seat pad which provides me much more comfort. Both my shirt and the seat back pad were wet after the ride and it was a 60 degree day. In addition I got a bit of recumbutt and that Im presuming due to the shallow seat angle.

I discovered that I have a left leg forward preference for coasting and when my right was forward it felt quite awkward. So I practiced that some and will continue. Another interesting observation came with climbing. When concentrating on the climb, either on the seat back or flexed forward, I rode straight as an arrow. I really liked the arm-assist and 'cruzed' up hills with less perceived effort.

Ill be back for round 2 on Friday and will probably throw in some parking lot drills to boot. Im already thinking about a 2.x (or an S30) and would like to take a spin on one or even a vendetta.....looks like Ill be thinning out the Bacchetta and Lightning herd pretty soon!

 

[ratz]

Now that you are getting the fit dialed in

This might be useful; you are probably around step 6 by what you've posted.



Here's the script we use when people come to ride the Quests and see if it's for them. We've refined this over a bunch of people this summer; we are at 20 riders as of August; Some family, some friends, and a good number of former strangers.

If doing this on a Silvio or a Vendetta either sit up for all of these steps or put something behind you back to raise the angle to at least 40 degrees. It's easier to train your hands and feet if you aren't also training your balance. We keep all the quests set at 43 degrees and people learn pretty easy; especially bent riders. The laying back will come easier as a secondary skill. For example going from Silvio 27 degree to Vendetta 20 degrees took me only two full rides; but it was darn shaking for me at first; the lower you go the more balance you have to adjust to; so just take that out of the equation; riding sitting up is a great skill that you will want for intersection and going up step hills, so use it for your learning.

So......

1) Find a parking lot with about a 1-2% pitch. Go to the high end.

2) Do 5 coast down with your feet up in the air spread eagle. Yeah it sounds stupid; but get them as high as you can. This will help you learn the glide and slide mounting trick. Do at least 5, not 1, not 2, at least 5.

3) Do 2 coast downs with you feet just resting on the pedals Do not pedal; your ego will want to, don't do it.

4) Do 3 coast down with you feet just resting on the pedals and steer just a touch using only your foot pressure (this is harder than it sounds; but you need to learn what it feels like) Again resist the urge to pedal the best students wait. You are trying to teach the brain the subtle things.

5) Start doing runs with pedaling 5 or 6 minimum. Straight lines; down and back up the incline. Avoid turning; stop the bike; turn it 180 and go the other direction.

6) Start doing shallow turns; when you turn "DROP" your outside shoulder; it should feel like a reverse shrug; just relax you shoulder muscle so the shoulder drops. This is the same thing you do on racing motorcycles and snowmobiles you have to lean OUT ever so slightly on the turn; this is the opposite of what you do on a road bike. This is the #1 thing DF riders do wrong; they want to lean in to the turn; and coast; at which point they start to fall into the ground. Took watching several struggle to figure that out. This was a hard learned lesson that Bill paid for with his ankle injury. Those that came later owe him one for that.

7) After you can do the shoulder drop; do some pedaling figure-8's. Start big and work smaller; go Both directions; one side will be way easier that the other; that is you dominate side. Make note if it's easier to go left or right. Pedal through the turns if you feel tipping. This is the first bike you've had that you can pedal through any turn. You may have to slam a foot down on your weak direction the first few times.

8 ) Now consider your #7 results. If you turn left and it feels like you will fall into the ground then your right foot is dominate; if you feel like when you turn right you will fall into the ground then you left foot is dominate. If you feel like you are going to fall doing both you are a freak and need to continue practicing #7. Using your dominate foot Practice your up hill starts using this technique

http://cruzbike.com/looking-riding-tips-toe-clips-or-snap-shoes-general-steering-and-uphilldownhill-riding#comment-27416

That's also a go thread in general.

After you can do the hill starts you are ready for riding out of the parking lot.

 

[telephd]

Thanks Bob, I printed off

Thanks Bob, I printed off that page yesterday and will be using it for reverence and sharpening the connection! I actually got a little practice with #7 too as there are a couple of "S" curves along my route and Im familiar with the technique from experience with other forms of wheeled and tracked transport.

 

[Martinl]

thanks..lvan for the pic

I will persist with the training..l have good days and bad with this bike. I will follow ratz
8 points training program.

From my observation the Silvio is very unstable when l ride around 10-15 kph, fast is ok.
In Melbourne city shared paths max speed is 10 kph. l also ride on narrow shared footpath
less than a meter width, the right is a fence and the left a kerb, if you go down the kerb
?you are a gonna :-( trucks and cars right on the edge. Electrics may help abit.

l met up with Dennis Perry(first sticky at the Brag) in the park, he checked out my silvio and
gave me few tips.

..ps..lvan u r a gutsy rider..in Oz we have lots bike accidents..merging lanes..roundabout
dooring..and senior drivers with bad eyesight :-(

 

[MrSteve]

Satori Adjustable Stem Riser

This was standard equipment on the Cruzbike Sofrider V1
?and it is still doing it's job on my bike.

The adjustable stem is lots and lots of fun to play with and
makes trying out different handlebars much easier, more convenient.

This adjustable stem made my bike possible, with all the monkeying
I did with the bottom bracket height, seat location and recline,
handlebar location/orientation/angle/swaps and the like.

It's a nice piece of kit!
And, it has a place in Cruzbike history.

Let me just point out that your Satory stem is installed downside-up.
I'm used to having the pinch bolts facing me: That'd be underneath the boom, on your Silvio.
Not that it makes any difference.

Like the other people who've mentioned the stability of their Cruzbikes, I gotta agree.
Very stable.
Very fast.
Best. Recumbent. Bike. On. This. Planet. ---except for a few other MBB bikes, of course.

Have fun,
-Steve

 

[telephd]

OK,  Ive now got about 50

OK, Ive now got about 50 miles on the 1.0 and I still have some fit issues. Ive got the leg length set correctly and have pretty good extension. I had my wife take a couple of pics. The first shows heel to pedal full extension and the next cleat engaged in pedal extension. The following shows knee strike at full flexion. When Im peddling slowly at a leisurely pace (10 mph) there is no knee strike but when Im peddling hard 16-17 mph) I get knee strike. I tend to ride with some heel lift and that might be part of the problem. I cant correct the problem by raising the bar height because that does not change the length between the bar and the pedals only the bar and crank height relatively. I cant lengthen the pedals much more without getting too much leg extension and Im about maxed out now.
The other challenge Im having is with recumbutt. As I stated earlier Im used to around 30-35 degrees of recline and am wondering if the 45 recline of the 1.0 might be the culprit. My problem is actually a bit distal of the typical recumbutt pain and more like upper thighs and not gluttes. It might be related to the angle or the width the seat pan , Im not sure. Any one fit a ventist pad to a 1.0 seat?

What say you successful Silvio fitters?

 

[Jeremy S]

 I cant correct the problem

I cant correct the problem by raising the bar height because that does not change the length between the bar and the pedals only the bar and crank height relatively. I cant lengthen the pedals much more without getting too much leg extension and Im about maxed out now.

You should be able to do both at once: loosen both the upper and lower boom clamps (and loosen the bottom bracket ring clamps, and the front wheel skewer so you aren't flexing the chainstay). Lengthen the boom a bit at the lower clamp to give knee clearance, and then slide the handlebars toward you by the same amount at the upper clamp. Try putting tape (such as electrical tape which is easily removed) on the boom, right next to the clamps, before adjusting so you can be sure how much change you made. You should end up with the pedals in the same place but the bars closer to you.