How to make your Vendetta as fast as possible

[3bs]

i bounce between my disc wheel and my assaults on the rear. no interest in riding a disc front. wind always blowing some direction on the coast. there is very little difference in lateral movement with the disc wheel until you get over 15mph winds. then you notice but when it gets to 20 the whole bike starts to get tossed around, so not a real issue.

i had the m5 minimalist preying matis bars on my m5m, and now i run a narrow flat bar made of copper pipe and a slightly wider mantis bar on the apache, and i tried similar variations on the v20. on the franken trike i run oxhorn. the problem with all versions of the mantis/stubbies are that you just cannot get a full pull when you are trying to climb. they just suck at that. so, if you are in total flats 24/7, then i would look into them. but if you climb, forget about it, as you lose a key CB attribute.

the other thing that is just scary as crap is big downhills on preying mantis bars. add some variable crosswinds, and you have to stop to change you shorts.

i would suggest however there is one thing i played with that i felt gave an interesting compromise before i went to what i have now. a medium width preying mantis bar with mountain bike bar end climbers. imagine a narrow w shaped bar. you keep your hands normally on the center inverted v, where your controls are, and then when you climb you move to the outside of the w. this worked very well, but i didn't have the right controls to make it long term, because i often downshift in the middle of a climb. it is a set up that deserves more experiments for those that want to bring the arms in for a more aero entry point. i will look for a picture of the set up. i tried it on the m5 and the v.

https://t-cycle.com/collections/handlebars-stems-steering/products/handlebars

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-H...065860?hash=item28a319c104:g:GtMAAOSwRkNfv-TV

 

[Andrew Wilson]

That purple does look like late 80's. I kinda like it though hahaha. You've been racing for quite a while though eh?

Oh yes...Since the 84 Olympics when I saw Alexi Grewal win the road race...I was hooked. Started racing the next year eventually moving up to Cat2 before switching to MtBike racing in my early 40's

I quit racing in my late 40's and just ride now till they allowed recumbents in the Sr Games this year sparked my interest again. Back is shot...neck is shot... Thank God for recumbents

 

[MrSteve]

The most useful aeromods from my stable?
Form-fitting bike-specific clothing added a few MPH and is a necessity for speed.
An aerodynamic helmet -or no helmet (I was stubborn/stupid one ride when I forgot my helmet for that one ride)- helps a little bit.
The naked apes that powers these bikes are a very real aerodynamic drag.
A rear disc wheel added a few MPH and is a necessity for top speed.
The rear disc wheel on my Sofrider added directional stability, as well as speed, in all of the windy conditions I encountered;
the rear disc wheel on my Vendetta is a handful when it is really gusty, so having an open -spoked- rear wheel is nice.
A splitter plate that fills the space between the seat pan/frame tube and the rear disc wheel helps top speed.
(The first Vendetta frame had a small splitter plate!)
Raising the bottom bracket to compensate for lower seat angles helps keep the hip-angle that I like.
The aerodynamic drag of my shoulders and upper torso is greater than the added drag of a higher bottom bracket.
Free tip: using brakes slows you down.
Free tip Number B: Sitting up slows you down ... except when you're already going slow.

 

[TransAm]

stick my Wahoo Bolt down on the frame between my legs with some velcro tape.
View attachment 10493 View attachment 10494

No need for velcro. You can mount a computer securely between your legs on a steerer tube mount. And it needs to be secure otherwise stopping to pick it up will slow you down more!

https://lightroom.adobe.com/embed/shares/6fde37b1283c4b2cba86601eccba711b

The computer mount works best for me on top of the boom clamp, and the cable hanger needs to be on the bottom. The ELEMNT is a little too wide for my thunder thighs, so I may have to save this for something smaller. And it's not compatible with the under-boom bottle mount, but that's not compatible with my thunder thighs either.

With the Garmin radar, I want the display in my line-of-sight, so I'm generally using a handlebar mount on the road. But this steerer, between the legs mount is good for race day, or aero testing.

Here's the link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VGJG9SQ

 

[TransAm]

When I was researching the V20, one of the things I didn't like was the messy cable routing. And cables hanging out in the breeze doesn't help you go fast. So I went with e-tap Eagle AXS 1x12 to eliminate two cables. Here's a look at what I did with the other two:

https://lightroom.adobe.com/embed/shares/2b6669d04e7c4a7da26f062c37280770

The center-pull brake eliminates one cable hanging out. But the cable hanger sticks a little too far out in front. I can't find a tighter one, so I may have to make one.

The SKS Reflective Bicycle Top Tube Bag fills in the space between the boom and steerer tube, and I've integrated the rear brake cable with the straps, so it's not hanging out either. But I did have to rotate the slider clamp, so it's in the breeze now.

I'm still tweaking the fit, so I have T-handle hex wrenches in the bag for now. But it's probably going to become my food and misc. stuff ditty bag (i.e. a giant version of the behind the steerer, top of top tube bag on a DF). You can't access it while riding, but you can lean forward to get in it while still straddling the bike.

 

[Frito Bandito]

I can't see the pic for some reason, it shows up as a blue question mark so it's probably my computer settings. But eliminating 2 cables is nice. I just checked the SRAM website and the e-tap Eagle groupset looks like the bees knees. The 105 2x11 groupset I now have with an 11x28 covers everything I use my V20 for now, but a 1x12 with an 11x32 would probably cover anything I could ever need it for in the future depending on the front chain ring size. I'm tempted to move my Campagnolo TT stuff from my DF bike over to the V20, just can't do it lol.

I am not sure if yours has it, but when stringing up mine I noticed water bottle bosses on the bottom of the steerer tube right near the bar clamp. It is likely more aero there than under the seat, but it's another thing I didn't know I needed.

Edit: I've been looking for another mount for the Wahoo Bolt to get it tucked in somewhere. The difficult part has been finding one that the Bolt fits on. It is shaped so that it is very aero when on the original mount but that shape also prevented it from fitting the other mounts I have seen in the shops near me. But I will check that one out. Thanks a ton

 

[TransAm]

I can't see the pic for some reason, it shows up as a blue question mark so it's probably my computer settings.

It's not you, it's me. I could see the images, but nobody else could. Thanks for telling me. I have not figured out how to get a live preview, but I replaced the dead pics with a live link in the meantime.

 

[Frito Bandito]

It's not you, it's me. I could see the images, but nobody else could. Thanks for telling me. I have not figured out how to get a live preview, but I replaced the dead pics with a live link in the meantime.

Gotcha. Thanks for the link. That looks even better than I imagined and fills up that area nicely.

 

[TransAm]

I just checked the SRAM website and the e-tap Eagle groupset looks like the bees knees. The 105 2x11 groupset I now have with an 11x28 covers everything I use my V20 for now, but a 1x12 with an 11x32 would probably cover anything I could ever need it for in the future depending on the front chain ring size.

If you really think you only need 11-32t w/1x, you don't need the Eagle long cage RD. Force has medium & short cage versions that cover 36t or 33t . I got the Eagle because I'm using a 50t chainring and 11-50t cassette to get 1:1 low gearing. It needs a little bit of extra chain cut-off scrap from another chain and two quick links with the stock chainstay length. The disadvantage of a wide range cassette is 2t jumps on the small cogs.

One other problem with the Eagle RD is it sticks out pretty far. On my first run with the brand new $700 RD I tipped over at low speed and scratched it up. So I'm running the Cannondale QR Trainer Skewer with one 10mm spacer on the drive side for a little extra protection. You have to remove the spacer on the non-drive side to account for the extra width of the fork. I replaced it with a 3/8" washer to get some extra clearance. Note that this is sold for trainer use only, so on-road use is off-label.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RFFHFQ2

I am using an 11t 12s cassette because it fits on a standard 10s hub, so I was able to use an old wheel for now. But you would probably want to go to a 10t cassette on an xD hub. I will do that with a narrower range cassette for flat courses.

The advantage of AXS is you can mix road and MTB parts in a "mullet build". I got the Eagle conversion kit with the MTB style controller (thumb shifter) for $1000; so with a cut Apex crank, chain, cassette, chainring, and plain brake levers, I got rolling wireless for <$1500. The MTB thumb shifter is $200, push-button blip-box TT shifters run $500, and the Force brifters are $700. One issue with the thumb shifter is that it mounts on the inside of the drops, so it reduces leg clearance a little. It's OK with the stock bars, but could be an issue with narrower bars.

One other issue with a wireless RD is that it comes completely off with the hanger when you remove the drive wheel because there is no cable attached. That cuts both ways. On the one hand, you can take it and the chain off for transport separately. On the other hand, you can also get the chain really tangled up which makes putting it back on a pain.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Thanks for the ton of information. Saving this as a screenshot for future use

 

[Mathew Fy]

When I was researching the V20, one of the things I didn't like was the messy cable routing. And cables hanging out in the breeze doesn't help you go fast. So I went with e-tap Eagle AXS 1x12 to eliminate two cables. Here's a look at what I did with the other two:

https://lightroom.adobe.com/embed/shares/2b6669d04e7c4a7da26f062c37280770

The center-pull brake eliminates one cable hanging out. But the cable hanger sticks a little too far out in front. I can't find a tighter one, so I may have to make one.

The SKS Reflective Bicycle Top Tube Bag fills in the space between the boom and steerer tube, and I've integrated the rear brake cable with the straps, so it's not hanging out either. But I did have to rotate the slider clamp, so it's in the breeze now.

I'm still tweaking the fit, so I have T-handle hex wrenches in the bag for now. But it's probably going to become my food and misc. stuff ditty bag (i.e. a giant version of the behind the steerer, top of top tube bag on a DF). You can't access it while riding, but you can lean forward to get in it while still straddling the bike.

I like this. Up-front storage for improved weight distribution, possible aerodynamic advantage. I’m envisioning a carbon fiber version of this bag to contain that rear brake cable and smooth air flow even further.

 

[TransAm]

I like this. Up-front storage for improved weight distribution, possible aerodynamic advantage. I’m envisioning a carbon fiber version of this bag to contain that rear brake cable and smooth air flow even further.

OK, but this would have to be a one-off for each bike, because the angle of the boom is different depending on the fit. And if you change the chainstay length, that changes everything too.

 

[Tor Hovland]

I just put in an order for a very Vendetta specific wheelset. Yoeleo again, because they're among the best in Hambini's testing, while being relatively inexpensive. Plus they let me do all the customizations that I need. And I've owned a set before, so I know the quality is good.

So what's so custom about it? Quite a bit, actually:

- 88mm "front" (i.e. Vendetta rear) wheel, which is close to disc wheel performance while being more practical for allround use.
- 50mm "rear" (drive) wheel, because I didn't like 60mm up front on my DF. Let's hope I can handle 50mm.
- DT Swiss 350 hubs.
- Rim brake tracks as well as center-lock disc hubs. Because my current Vendetta uses rim brakes, but my next one might not.
- QR axle on the drive wheel, because that's what the Vendetta uses, and the DT 350 drive wheel hub is supposed to be convertible to thru axles if needed in the future.
- 12x100 thru axle on the non-drive wheel, because I can easily use that on a QR bike with a simple axle converter.
- Brass nipples, because I hate alloy nipples.

They are 25mm wide, and will be great with my 25mm GP5000 tires. They charged me $1054 for this, including shipping. I will have to pay VAT on top that, though.

 

[DavidCH]

Hey just seen something that appeals to me that will be a must try for 2021... sure going to get those koms next year.

 

[Frito Bandito]

Can't wait to see them Tor. They seem like a good set of wheels with all of those options at a good price. Especially the upgradability.

 

[DavidCH]

I helped my brother a few months back with a tubular aluminium rim... I couldnt believe how light it was and the tubular tyre i got with it was a continental grand prix gatorskin. I can still smell it. It's an astonishing tyre. So i am going to black monokote it with an old credit card.

Next year is going to be a hoot.

I will change to a rear disk configuration too.

 

[Mathew Fy]

Hey just seen something that appeals to me

That's what I'm talking about. Something like a cross between this AeroDefender and TransAm's bag.

 

[DavidCH]

That's what I'm talking about. Something like a cross between this AeroDefender and TransAm's bag.

The transam bag is just a filler. The aero fender actually stops the air being turbulent due to the high speed rotation of the wheel as the air speed at the top of the wheel is negative.

Think of a Catherine wheel firework rotating; you see the flame equidistant on all sides of the wheel as it goes around. Same goes with your bike wheel but you have added momentum.

I will put them on and probably tape over the boom to the front aero fender. It's a marginal gain but I am focussing my attention to sustaining that 45 to 50 kph speed and effort. Next years budget goal.

 

[Tor Hovland]

There is some good general advice on bicycle efficiency here:
https://ridefar.info/bike/cycling-speed/summary/

 

[TransAm]

There is some good general advice on bicycle efficiency here:
https://ridefar.info/bike/cycling-speed/summary/

Interesting read, and very similar to my conclusions on TABR:

https://rideallnight.wordpress.com/2017/04/10/notes-from-the-road-trans-am-bike-race-2016/