how to stop wobbling

[Karl42]

Hi guys,

I've had my V20 for nearly four months now and have done over 1600 miles on it, with 75,000 feet of climbing. I feel very comfortable on the bike (this is not my first recumbent, but my first MBB), and I'm also faster than on any other bike I have ridden.

However: apparently I wobble. A lot. By that I mean that when I'm pedaling the handlebar moves sideways back and forth quite a bit.
While this doesn't bother me directly, it draws comments from every other cyclist who sees me, and they are all amazed that the bike seems so "unstable" and even "dangerous". So for the sake of not appearing unstable, and probably for some potential efficiency gains, I'm asking for advice here.

So far, suggestions I found here are to relax my grip and try riding with flat hands. I do notice that I might hold the handlebar very tightly.
Also, I had the original wide handlebar for three months, and then switched to the much narrower Ritchey WCS EvoMax according to suggestions from this forum. The narrow handlebar (which I only had for a month) seems to make me wobble more, even though I like it a lot apart from that.

How did you learn to ride with less wobble, and how long did it take you?

 

[Lief]

@Karl42 - 6 months ago I would have said - “give it time” or “frame up” or “try pull or push”.

I’ve been on Cruzbike’s since 2008/9, ride comfortably with no hands and all that Jazz
But, recently I’ve begun riding a v20 with a large chainstay and narrow drop bars and holy crap was this wobbly and I went back to flare bars and it reduced substantially but still not gone.

Describe your layout a bit more?
How horizontal is your boom?
Q-rings?
Crank length?

 

[LarryOz]

Hi Karl,
I'm not as seasoned a rider as Lief - only been riding for 4 years - but I probably have about 60K miles riding a Vendetta.
I even ride with an 11" wide handle bar. I did wobble a lot a first however.
When I switched to shorted cranks (140-145mm) and learned to spin faster (90-95rpm) the wobbling smoothed out for me.
With shorter cranks and slow spin I think the leg power on each power stroke is amplified and forces the boom back and forth a lot more.
Hope this helps!
btw - We really love pics - so take some and post some!

 

[Karl42]

Thanks for your replies.
I have 150mm cranks with round chainrings. I'm already spinning quite fast.
I'll post some pictures of my setup tomorrow.

 

[jond]

Thanks for your replies.
I have 150mm cranks with round chainrings. I'm already spinning quite fast.
I'll post some pictures of my setup tomorrow.

Hi Karl.

My boom is virtually horizontal with large chain stay. I use narrow drop bars .

I noticed v20 entire boom assembly had slipped forward at bar band clamp. Pivot point.

I pulled it back and hey my wobbles instantly got better.

I’ve recently swapped out crankset to 155 mm and I think smaller mechanical action helps too.

But my issue which crept in was the boom. I was over extending and less stable at low speed.

Try a quick adjustment to see if that helps. No more than a cm. Pulling your bars and pedals closer to you.

I feel much more in control with the pedals feeling more under my feet.

Amazing what a cm can do!

In the end we are all different and what you look like doesn’t matter so long as you are in complete control.

 

[Lief]

@LarryOz - I had to check that I was right about 2008/9 and sure enough 9+ years on Silvio 1.0. Crazy.
I bet I don't have 60K miles tho and I certainly haven't tested as many components and setups as you.

I have 155 and q-rings.
back on topic - I was VERY surprised at the amount of side-to-side instability I encountered on this V20.
after my flare bars made such a change (but not all the way methinks)
1) I will try @jond 's approach; moving in the boom.
2) My next thoughts are adjusting the q-rings by one stop...might be pedalling squares with my feet so much higher.
3) Then...if that doesn't remove/reduce the wobble I'll go back to short chainstay.

 

[Karl42]

btw - We really love pics - so take some and post some!

I just made some videos today.
Here is my bike setup and pedal stroke:

And here is a short clip of me riding:

You can clearly see the wobble in the riding video, especially towards the end. As I said, it doesn't really bother me, but it is probably inefficient, and it scares other riders.

EDIT: Here is me going down the same road, filmed from behind (sorry about the poor video quality). This shows more clearly why my riding style looks erratic and unstable to others, even though it doesn't feel like that from the rider's perspective:

 

[ak-tux]

I just made some videos today.
Here is my bike setup and pedal stroke:

And here is a short clip of me riding:

You can clearly see the wobble in the riding video, especially towards the end. As I said, it doesn't really bother me, but it is probably inefficient, and it scares other riders.

Doesn't look like much of a "wobble" to me but left and right alternating compensation by the arm and shoulders to the pedal stroke. It is equivalent to that of a DF only that this time it is horizontal. Can you follow a line on the road and ride true?

You need to ask a cycling buddy to follow you with the camera mounted on his/her bike. Let him/her ride directly behind you. Then you can really tell if the wobble is indeed noticeably a problem.

Secondly, I notice that your handlebars are relatively narrow. Not a problem as such for some but it gives less leverage for stabilising and countering the pedal induced steer. You may want to consider the wider flared bars like the On-One midge bar or the Salsa cowchipper/woodchipper e.t.c.

 

[dtseng]

I would suggest that you try higher gear and lower cadence. At slower cadence, you can push/pull handle bar to eliminate pedal steer.

 

[LarryOz]

Great videos.
It is really hard to tell. I would not say you wobble "horribly", as there is a little swap back and for with everyone I think.
Ratz told me I wobble back and forth a lot. I told him I did it on purpose so no one could draft me!
It almost looks to me like the weight of your torso is swinging you back and forth a little more than normal. Do you feel like you are really firmly planted into the seat and headrest?
Even when you are swaying, it looks to me like you tire track is staying relatively straight.
I know this isn't much - but eventually someone will notice something and you will say - That is it!
Good Luck.

 

[DavidCH]

From behind it looks slightly twitchy. When it twitches the body seems to overcomponsate. You have quite a lot on your bars so I couldn't quite see the rotation of the right knee. You seem stronger on your right side than left.
When cadence is high the twitch is more noticeable. When I cycle I compensate by rebalancing the steering wobble by the opposite hand on the bars. When I first started out on the vendetta I ended up with the minor leg shorter than the other due to hip inflexibility. Keep those hips stretched by doing lunges and hip twists. I found also that it helps having extra foam support for the lower back. Cleat position and wedges might help too but these are the finer touches to do after the previous suggestions. Hope that helps

 

[Karl42]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I do already have foam behind my lower back. I'll keep the other things in mind and will pay attention to them on my next ride.

 

[1happyreader]

I just made some videos today.
Here is my bike setup and pedal stroke:

And here is a short clip of me riding:

You can clearly see the wobble in the riding video, especially towards the end. As I said, it doesn't really bother me, but it is probably inefficient, and it scares other riders.

IMHO one of the best/ worst things about MBB is that it exposed how right side dominant my legs are. You may just have a bad habit rather than the very late left leg stroke I am trying to overcome.

 

[benphyr]

I'm not sure how to interpret this observation: it seems similar to a comparison of me on my conversion kit (you on your V20) and me on my QX100. The conversion kit is higher - more like a high racer than the Q but other than that I'm not sure what that means.

I would echo LarryOz observing that it seems your body may not be secure in the seat. Many have changed to Thor seats which seem to have more security but I don't have experience with that. I always feel a little insecure on the stock seat and can well imagine that it could be disturbing to those behind.

Best of luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[Bill K]

Another thing to consider is the headrest. If it is transmitting road vibrations to your ears that can throw off you balance a bit.
Try lifting your head off the headrest for a few minutes while riding hard and see if that helps.
If so, addition cushioning is in order.

 

[Suz]

Do you have a death grip on your handlebars? I tend to wobble more when I am gripping my handlebars too tightly. It helps me to relax my upper body and use my hands as more of guiding force on the handlebars than steering. Hope this makes sense.

In the second video I thought you wobbled more when you stopped peddling. That quick little unstable wobble. Maybe because you’re gripping too tightly(??), I’m not sure. Honestly that video didn’t look bad. But I have that quick little wobble if I stop peddling with one leg out in front and gripping too hard.

The third video of you from behind, I couldn’t really tell what was going on except it seemed sporadic.

Good luck, someone is bound to hit on the reasons.

 

[paco1961]

I have the same problem but mostly w higher speed - over 25mph. I find slower cadence helps. Death grip is usually a function of comfort/confidence. At 18-20mph my grip is fine. At 25mph and up my grip would crush a cue ball! Hoping time will help. Have had a few friends who know me and my riding well ride behind me when on my S40 to compare. All agree there’s a lot more “correction” going on w the S40 but nobody’s complained. I do know I’m nowhere near as comfortable in side by side close quarters as I am on a DF and I find I stay considerably farther off the road edge on the CB. I do the white line drill whenever the opportunity presents itself. My try bringing the bars a cm closer.

 

[tiltmaniac]

Looks to me like your feet are too far away/pedals too far away.
This creates 'twitches' when you're not extending your ankle enough (which is hard to do right). I'd suggest moving the pedals a bit inward. Even small amounts can help--you just need to be sure you're not 'reaching' with your ankle (i.e. requiring ankle deflection).

So, bring the boom in some until you don't need to move your ankle for a pedal stroke.

BTW, I can see the ankle deflection clearly in your first video. I had similar issues when first adjusting the boom length.

Given the too-short boom setting, a narrower handlebar would give you less leverage to correct when your ankle doesn't deflect enough for the stroke...

 

[ak-tux]

...
You need to ask a cycling buddy to follow you with the camera mounted on his/her bike. Let him/her ride directly behind you. Then you can really tell if the wobble is indeed noticeably a problem.

Secondly, I notice that your handlebars are relatively narrow. Not a problem as such for some but it gives less leverage for stabilising and countering the pedal induced steer. You may want to consider the wider flared bars like the On-One midge bar or the Salsa cowchipper/woodchipper e.t.c.

Thank you for adding the third video, it makes it clearer. Yes, there is a random zigzag motion to the bike during pedalling. It appears to me that it does not ride a straight line.

I noticed a few things:

• When you are coasting ,you seem to track straight and more stable, hence the problem is related to the pedalling action.
• I was wrong about the width of your bars. They seem sufficiently wide. They are not the reason. (Edit: or did you change the handlebar before the third video?)
• It seems to me that your core/torso is not sufficiently stabilized enough to sustain the cadence you are pedalling at. It could be because of two reasons:
  1. Possibly your pedals are too far upfront and you are over reaching/overextending.
  2. Cranks are longer than optimal (Edit: you'd mentioned short cranks so probably this is not the reason)
  3. insufficient slow speed technique to follow a line.
• Can you try to shorten the boom to bring the bottom bracket closer by an inch and see what happens?
• It would also be nice to see your slow speed motion say at 15Km/h. You need to try it in an empty parking lot. Try and follow line marks and see if you can ride true at 10km/h along the white line.

 

[Karl42]

Thank you for adding the third video, it makes it clearer. Yes, there is a random zigzag motion to the bike during pedalling. It appears to me that it does not ride a straight line.

The big swerving motions in the video are mostly me avoiding potholes and manhole covers, but there is the occasional smaller random zigzag also.

I was wrong about the width of your bars. They seem sufficiently wide. They are not the reason. (Edit: or did you change the handlebar before the third video?)

All three videos have the same setup and were taken on the same day. The original handlebar seemed ridiculously wide. Now I have the 42cm WCS EvoMax. This is just wide enough so that my fingers don't touch my legs when I'm going straight, so from that point of view it seems like a perfect fit, and it also feels good to me.

Cranks are longer than optimal (Edit: you'd mentioned short cranks so probably this is not the reason)

I have 152mm cranks, and they seem to work well in terms of avoiding knee problems that I had with longer (165mm or more) cranks.

Can you try to shorten the boom to bring the bottom bracket closer by an inch and see what happens?

Yes, I will try that next. As well as the straight line exercises on the parking lot.

Thanks for your input