I'll just hop that curb!

super slim

super slim

Zen MBB Master
DavidCH said:
Nice to know, especially in a peloton. Imagine with disc brakes and in a peloton. You could brake really well but the guy behind you won't. If you have disc brakes; best to stay to the side of the peloton or at the back.
Click to expand...

Dave, any Cruzbike will easily outbrake a DF bike.
A rim brake in DRY weather can brake as hard as a Disk brake, but with 260 N hand force for a Ultegra Rim, compared to 150 N for a 160 mm disk + BB7 mechanical.
When it is wet, then no difference for the disk brake, but the rim could have a 50% to 100% reduction in braking effect.
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
super slim said:
Dave, any Cruzbike will easily outbrake a DF bike.
A rim brake in DRY weather can brake as hard as a Disk brake, but with 260 N hand force for a Ultegra Rim, compared to 150 N for a 160 mm disk + BB7 mechanical.
When it is wet, then no difference for the disk brake, but the rim could have a 50% to 100% reduction in braking effect.
Click to expand...
Interesting to know as where I live it's exceptionally dry and usually windy. We get rain here perhaps on 20 days of the year and usually I don't go out on such days. I find the tyres don't grip so well when you need them. There is a lot of sand in the wind and when it gets wet on the roads there isn't much camber for the water to run off so everything becomes a mess.
 
MrSteve

MrSteve

Zen MBB Master
super slim said:
Dave, any Cruzbike will easily outbrake a DF bike.
A rim brake in DRY weather can brake as hard as a Disk brake, but with 260 N hand force for a Ultegra Rim, compared to 150 N for a 160 mm disk + BB7 mechanical.
When it is wet, then no difference for the disk brake, but the rim could have a 50% to 100% reduction in braking effect.
Click to expand...
Not really... not any Cruzbike.

Braking hard on a Sofrider will lift the rear wheel... like I used to do. Sofrider Stoppies are easy.

Disc brakes are the future for good reason.
 
JOSEPHWEISSERT

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
Well, I pulled the pin on a brand new wheelset purchase. My old set was pretty worn out from many, many miles of abuse and, most recently, taking on a curb head-on at speed. If I had known the difference in feel (not to mention "style") would be so dramatic, I would have purchased a new set of wheels when I built the V. All I can say is WOW!!!

WOW!!!

The feel is tight. The handling is a dream. And the speed difference? Very noticeable. I went from a set of Mavic Ksyriums (over 10 years old) to a set of (drum roll please) 2016 Zipp 404 Firecrest wheels. And as a bonus, the Bat Bike now looks way cool. Instead of a dorky set of low rim silver colored, scratched up, aluminum wheels, now the wheels are a matching black in color with deep rims. I was drooling over the 808s, but they're better for flats because they're heavier. The 404s are a compromise for climbing. And then there's a surprise bonus. With the new brake pads installed, hitting the brakes at high speed creates a descending sound like a jet engine, but much quieter. So now, when I have to take an MUP and some peds in dreamland step in the way, the Bat Bike can make them jerk around with a "what the F was that?" look on their faces. It's the new and improved Bat Bike! Put down your medical maryjane and step off dudes, outa my way.

Saturday will be the Big Test at the ODRAM (one day ride across Michigan) from Lake Michigan east to Lake Huron. It will be a dream ride of at least 143 miles. I'll probably be in my own group of one, drafting off of myself. If there's a tailwind, I might break the 7-hour barrier for ride time. That would take a 20.5 mph average, so it's doable.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
Very Nice....

JOSEPHWEISSERT said:
With the new brake pads installed, hitting the brakes at high speed creates a descending sound like a jet engine, but much quieter
Click to expand...

Now remember that's carbon so you have to oscillate your brakes when going down hill; try to not drag on the brakes for more than three seconds. Instead Engage both so you can just barely hear them, then alternate the hard pull front/back. Front slows you down, Back keeps you from "re accelerating" down the hill don't bother trying to cut your speed with the rear brake on hills >6% you can't engage it long enough. You'll find out really quick if your fork headset stack is too loose. On long and deep descents you need to fully disengage the brakes on each oscillation so they can cool down. Between cleanings of the brake pads you get about 4-6 major hard all out breaking efforts without oscillating; after that the brake pad will be glazed and you'll need to clean them to get any good braking back. Why is the glazing bad? (1) Poor braking performance similar to water, (2) the Glaze grinds away at the braking surface and wears out the rims prematurely. That said you got ZIPP and they are considerably more durable than the budget stuff so you have a lot more room for error

Sounds worse that it is; it just different and that means new knowledge and new practice.


Of course the bat bike does not really need brakes because batman brakes for no one.
 
DavidCH

DavidCH

In thought; expanding the paradigm of traversity
I do remember praise being given to ZIPP as they use much better resin that has a higher melting point than other manufacturers.
 
ratz

ratz

Wielder of the Rubber Mallet
DavidCH said:
I do remember praise being given to ZIPP as they use much better resin that has a higher melting point than other manufacturers.
Click to expand...
The Big name brands have it about nailed, being on their 4th and 5th generation of the wheels. Reynolds is the leader, then ZIPP, (5ht gen) and then just about everyone else Bontrager, Campagnolo, DT Swiss, ENVE, Fulcrum, Mavic (4th gen) a little further behind. Reynolds and ZIPP have the advantage in that they have a few years lead on the others. I can remember reading article about Reynolds going around and having to almost give the early wheels away to get people to race on them.


Some good reviews of the current stuff

https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/05/22/best-carbon-clincher-climbing-bike-wheels/
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/02/21/best-wheels-for-disc-brake-road-bikes-2016/

This one is a bit older but still good; should be a new update in spring
https://intheknowcycling.com/2015/07/10/best-aero-all-around-road-bike-wheels/

And for the not carbon crowd
https://intheknowcycling.com/2016/05/03/best-road-bike-wheel-upgrades/
 
JOSEPHWEISSERT

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
I did the ODRAM today - solo (no drafting). It ended up being 151 miles, not 143. So I didn't break the 7-hour barrier. But I was hoping to do a 20.5 mph average and ended up with a 20.8 mph average according to my Garmin (which is slightly different than Strava). So I'm happy with 151 miles in 7 hours 16 minutes and a 20.8 mph average. This was my first event with the new wheels. And wow! They felt so good all day long. They ride like a dream.
 
JOSEPHWEISSERT

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
And by the way, regarding ODRAM engine fuel (for what it's worth) for 151 hard miles:

Breakfast at 5:30 AM: protein shake, cliff bar, small Starbucks frapp to wake up after too little sleep.

8:39 AM: On the road finally after waiting for a huge rainstorm (coming off Lake Michigan) to let up. The plan was to leave at 7:00 AM. Feeling slightly hungry again, but that's how it goes. Not a problem.

Rest stop at 43 miles after riding over Hardy Dam: Cold water mixed with blue Gattorade. One greasy cookie. Sand in my cleats (no nutritional value). The Bat Bike is a mess from the wet roads and getting rained on every so often.

Fewer than five miles before reststop 2, there are three guys at a stop sign. One is hunched over his handlebars. The others are staring at him. I thought, "You think it's bad now, wait until it really gets hot." Then two of them chase me but they end up in my dust.

Rest stop at 77 miles: A little cold Gatorade. I leave the rest stop and roll into the big city of Blanchard, Michigan for a big, ice cold Starbucks frappacino in the glass bottle for cold and fat and water and caffeine. A few pringles potato chips for carbs, fat, and salt. I get on my bike and, before one pedal rotation completes, I'm out of the big city.

Over a hundred miles: The heat is not too bad except when I stop. Then it's a regular Jungle Oven. I stop at a gas station for another big, really cold frappacino. It really hits the spot. Touché heat and humidity! Suck it! I eat a few more potato chips. I notice how everyone appears really fat unless standing near a bike. I chalk it up to dilerium. Or it could be the RainX I put on my visor. There's no way people can be that fat! I better get out of here in case it's contagious.

Last reststop, 120 miles: One cup of cold Gatorade, a slice of watermelon. Some stretching in the grass. Back on the road. Now I start drinking the two 24oz bottles of Infinit that I had not touched yet. I drink all of one and half of the other. Still feeling really good.

151 miles: I stow the bike on the truck, take a shower at the state park (ahhhhhhhhhh!), grab my cooler, and get on the bus for the long ride home. Time passes quickly with an audiobook and a cooler full of food and drinks.
 
JOSEPHWEISSERT

JOSEPHWEISSERT

Zen MBB Master
Mathew Fy said:
Update: I think the top photo is of Dave from Chicago. The lead Cruzbiker also rode in the 2022 rainy ODRAM.
Click to expand...
Hey, that’s me (in yellow) in the brutal 144-mile 2022 ODRAM at 75 miles. It was 50 degrees and rain for the first 100 miles. Most people were dressed for summer. The last 30 miles were in perfect weather, but I had a flat tire 5 miles from the finish line. I fixed it and finished. Many had dropped. Many didn’t even show up. “It was death on a stick mate!” Of course, the sun came out after I crossed the finish line.
 
billyk

billyk

Guru
MrSteve said:
Braking hard on a Sofrider will lift the rear wheel... like I used to do. Sofrider Stoppies are easy.
Click to expand...
Q's, too. I can easily lift my rear wheel with a too-hard pull on the front brake (dry weather, good surface). The better modulation is why I like disk brakes. (Well, also how much cleaner they are: no brakepad gunk all over my wheels ... and hands).

I think the EU safety standard is that the cog of bike+rider has to be behind a line running up and back at a 60 degree angle from the front wheel ground contact point.
The mass of our legs way out in front makes this worse, but our lower sitting position helps.

The lower you sit and the further back, the harder it is to lift the rear wheel. My sense is that the more upright CBs aren't too far behind 60 degrees and thus are easy to do a stoppie.
 
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