llavalle's A4X Build

[llavalle]

Alright - weather is still a bit crap around here so I'm taking small rides. I have around 14km so far on the bike (~8.7miles). Riding on bike paths is ok now.. but I still have problems with low speed & small circle turns, especially on the right side.

Added a few of the last touches to the bike (before the ebike conversion).

Wanted a power meter... and after finding a lot of different not so good options (mostly crank based), I just ended up opening up my wallet for a pair of Favero Assioma Pro MX




Since I'm not comfortable enough to ride clipped in on the Cruz yet, I picked up cheap AliExpress SPD cleats (knockoffs) and flat pedal adapters (<$15 combined)



It looks REALLY weird but it'll work until I'm comfortable enough to clip in




Also received my rear lights + reflector kit. SeeMe 50Mag - it sync with the front light



Front reflector as well



On the cockpit, I added my Peak Design "up front" mount. Love this mount (was on my other bike). It clips securely with their cases (similar to Quad Pro but cleaner IMO).



It's convenient that it has a go-pro mount underneath - I might just run a camera (for safety, like a dashcam)



And while I wasn't originally planning to install one, now that I've ridden a bit, a mirror. Zefal Espion Z56



The riding bit :

I'm getting used to the torque steer... but it feels more natural (for now at least) to pull on the side of the handlebar I'm pushing with my feet. It's definitely easier (force wise) to push on the other side but I guess I need to build up the muscle memory.

I don't like the gearing. I went with a 40t chainring (factory is 42) and a 11-51 cassette. Went with a cheap Deore from Aliexpress so it's 11 speed just to get started and get a feeling for it before putting my target groupset... Anyhow, there is no way I'll ever use the 51t cog on the cassette. This would be at VERY low speed and I don't have the balance yet for this. At the same time, the top end will be limiting. Having a 11t is limiting when going downhill... so I expect it'll be odd with the motor too.

Couldn't find a 42t chainring for cheap so went for a 44t to test. I was also thinking of switching to a 11-42 cassette since I found some of the gear spacing to be too high.... but turns out only the 3 larger cogs are different. I might just end up with a 12speed drivetrain after all

I initially didn't get the Croder set on the factory bike but now that I'm shopping for chainrings and so on, I get it now LOL.

Can't wait for the good weather to come in so I can get more kms on this!

 

[llavalle]

Alright, 63km done (just shy of 40miles). Going slow since I'm getting back into shape. Couple of things I noticed :

• Bike is slower than I thought it would be. It felt slower but now that I installed my power pedals, it IS slower. Checked my brakes - no rubbing. Chain is well lubed. Tires well inflated (35psi - perfect for the 49mm wide tires). First I thought it was the suspension so I cranked up the preload and it only helped marginally. Then I looked up online to check my tires. Yup - they are the culprit. I though that having a semi slick was perfect turns out these are bad examples! Heh, they came with the wheels ($140 usd for wheels + new tires). I ordered a set of CONTINENTAL Contact Urban 27.5´´ x 1.60 and see how they perform in hardpack. I still question the decision to go 650b on this bike. Tire selection isn't great - most gravel bikes are 700C now. Most hybrids are 700C.

• Like my previous post hinted at - gearing isn't great with my cheap deore setup. I ended up coding a small ConnectIQ app for my watch that takes the cadence + speed and infer which gear it's on (with configurable gears + wheel circonference). Turns out I spend most of my time on the 8th cog with some higher speed on the 9th and some recovery on the 7th.
  • I have a 11-51 cassette : 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T & a 40T chainring right now.
  • That means I'm running most of the time with a 40-18 ratio. I don't like that the step between 7-8-9 is 3T, too high jump!
  • Couple of options I'm considering :
    • Switch to 38T chainring. Need to do the math to see if it'll help (well see)
      • Pro : cheap - I already have it
      • Con : might run out of gear
    • Switch to the Deore 11-42 : 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-42T. With the smaller range, I'll be using 6-7-8 (and 2 tooth jump). Maybe I could switch to a 38T chainring (I already have it)
      • Pro : cheap (well, sorta, I need to change the derailler too - I have the long range version)
      • Con : I'm going to lose climbing abilities and there's one hill right now I'm using the 45T and 51T. The 51T is kinda useless because I skid out
    • Switch to Shimano 12 speed - 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T
      • Pro : I could use the new DI2 full wireless Deore which is CLEAN. The latest stuff from DI2 is cross compatible between road and MTB so I could convert to GRX levers at one point if I want.
      • Con : more pricey - trying to find a freehub for my hub right now that is micro-spline compatible is proving hard. Step from 7th to 8th is still 3T but at least 8 to 9th is 2T. Could be fixed with a 38T chainring
    • Switch to Shimano 12 speed "Medium Cage" (RD-M8250-GS) 9-11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-33-39-45T
      • Pro : Range would be PERFECT for a smaller chainring
      • Pro#2 : To get a similar range as right now (min and max) I can go with a 34T chainring which is pretty standard size for MTB component so WAY easier to find.
      • Con : Requires an XT derailleur and a special tool to remove the super small last cog. Also requires a micro-spline hub. Also pretty new so will be full MSRP.. no "cheap Ali Express"
    • Switch to SRAM similar with the factory bike
      • Pro : cheap-ish
      • Con : I hate how these shift
    • Switch to to SRAM AXS system
      • Pro : should shift better
      • Con : more expensive, also requires the use of a XD freehub... Since I need to change hub, I'd rather stay with Shimano
    • I could also switch to a 2x setup (already have the mount from Cruz) but that's an all other ballgame

==> I'll start by waiting to add the ebike motor and see how that goes... but the new compact 9-45 cassettes are REALLY nice.

• Glad I decided to put the hub motor on the back . I'm getting wheelslip on steep hills in 1st or 2nd gear. See this video at around 2:13

• I know I said I loved my "up front" mount from Peak Design but I ended up replacing it with the motorcycle one (I had it on hand) because while the gopro fit on the "up front", all of my batteries were dead on the Go Pro (old Hero 3). I just bought a DJI Action 5 Pro (they are on sale right now) and the fit was a bit tight.... So I just put it on a "Large Clamp Mount" from GoPro. I also put the cellphone on the right, closer to my right hand.

• Decided to drill hole in the seat back for the small bag - fit better there.

How the Gear indicator shows up in Garmin Connect after a ride :


Update on the electrification : Grin shipped my order last Friday. It should be here next Friday (or maybe the Monday after!)

 

[llavalle]

Just did the math (well, Claude did). My 11-51 is problematic :



Using a Shimano 12 speed Deore (cheap) with an aftermarket Sunrace CSMZ903 allows me to use a 11-51 (not 10-51) and it fits on a regular HG hub :



Shimano 10-51 Microspline


And finally the 9-45 "medium cage" option with 32-34 and 36 chainrings



Again, I'll wait to add the rear motor and I'll take my decision!

 

[llavalle]

oh, and here's the factory setup (3rd column). Oddly enough it seems Cruz know what they are doing (joking here! clearly they know). I don't like how this system shifts AT ALL but the step up & down from my "favorite" speed are smoother.



According to Claude (need to double check the math )

• Shimano 11-51 with 40t (current): 18t=2.22 (your home), 15t=2.67 (+20%), 21t=1.90 (−14%) — asymmetric, the hard side jump is the problem
• Sunrace 11-51 with 38t: 15t=2.53 (+14%), 17t=2.24 (your home), 19t=1.89 (−13%) — both sides under 15%, HG compatible
• Shimano 9-45 with 34t: 15t=2.27 (your home), 13t=2.62 (+15%), 17t=2.00 (−12%) — also very good, but MicroSpline
• Shimano 10-51 with 40t: 18t=2.22 (exact match), 16t=2.50 (+13%), 21t=1.90 (−14%) — excellent, but MicroSpline
• SRAM PG-1230 with 42t: 19t=2.21 (your home), 17t=2.47 (+12%), 22t=1.91 (−14%) — both sides under 15%, HG compatible

Clearly, the best "bang for the buck" is the SRAM NX Eagle with the PG-1230.
Food for thought

 

[IyhelM]

Then I looked up online to check my tires. Yup - they are the culprit

I don’t think the Terreno are that bad, RR-wise. Keep in mind that BRR includes road race slicks such as GP5000s in their gravel comparisons so the absolute score is meaningless; and for the actual gravel tires that perfume significantly better, I can’t speak for the GravelKing but the Terra Speed wear off very fast if you ride on tarmac.

 

[llavalle]

I don’t think the Terreno are that bad, RR-wise. Keep in mind that BRR includes road race slicks such as GP5000s in their gravel comparisons so the absolute score is meaningless; and for the actual gravel tires that perfume significantly better, I can’t speak for the GravelKing but the Terra Speed wear off very fast if you ride on tarmac.

Thanks for the info. I mostly ride on tarmac so having a semi-slick gravel tire is the problem. I thought I was getting 95% of a road tire with some thread on the side.

Also, right now I'm running 19mm inner width rims so the 47mm tires are weirdly shaped. My Grin hub motor will be on 25mm rims and I just ordered a 25mm rim for the front as well. I'll try the Terreno on the i25 rims (so I can tweak the pressure too) + the Continental ones.

Also worth mentioning : I'm REALLY out of shape since I haven't been riding for a while because of neck problems on a regular bike. Think low 100s FTP. So RR of 25 vs 18 times 2 is meaningful for me right now.

 

[llavalle]

Alright, couple of updates today.

My brother had a new in box cheap 11-42 cassette from Ztto. It won't be perfect with my derailleur (min / max large cog of 51) but folks online say it can be ok-ish. That will not shift properly but I'll be able to test the gear ratio. It's not an exact match to the Shimano cassettes (the 2nd largest cog is different) but should be a good test. If I like it and it shifts like crap, I'll by the $50 Deore derailleur that is meant for this.



Also, after testing a few things, I realized that my current wheels are very narrow (19mm internal). Incoming hub motor will have a 25mm internal rim so I started shopping around for a 650b rear wheel (for the front) that has hubs on which I can change the freehubs to Micro Spline or Sram XD. Couldn't find anything in the used market to my liking. Custom wheel built ended up being around $400-500 CAD (only 1 wheel) with Velo Orange or DT hubs or I could get cheap china made DT clones but shipping was ultra long (2mo+) as I had to get the full wheel built overseas, no local bike shops what to deal with cheap DT clones.

Then a friend of mine told me "hey, Hunt wheel is running clearance sales on their 650b gravel sets". For some reason, their microspline set is $500 CAD right now (wth!)

MASON x HUNT 650B Adventure Sport Disc Wheelset

The second MASON x HUNT collaboration, bringing go-anywhere capabilities to bikes. The new breed of Adventure Sport focused bikes have the ability and attitude for those fun trail thrashes and bike-packing adventures, whilst not compromising anything for fast-far road days.

www.huntbikewheels.com

So I just ordered a set + a spare HG freehub. Won't be needed the front and I might have issues with the centerlock to 6 bolt rotor adapter (clearance on the Cruz is pretty tight). Worst case I switch to a centerlock rotor up front, these are affordable.

Speaking of the hub motor, package was delivered this morning.



(Don't mind the 3 throttles, this is a mistake on their part, already reached out to them)

 

[IyhelM]

For $500 the Hunt wheels are a steal!
Been riding them on the Silvio for the past 20k (with a dynamo hub at the back), they’re good.

 

[Benell]

Hi llavalle,

What are you using for a pedal assist sensor?

Thanks

 

[llavalle]

Hi llavalle,

What are you using for a pedal assist sensor?

Thanks

Not using any pedal assist right now. Grin's split 12 pole PAS sensor is B/O and their regular PAS sensor only works with square tapers.

I'm currently checking how hard it would be (and if responsive enough) to pickup the ANT plus signal from my power pedals and send that over TTL to the phaserunner. I have the ANT+ stack coded and working but I'm having issues with the TTL communication - Still don't know if that will be responsive enough / work at all but I won't have any time to play on this for a few days.

I did manage to get a quick & dirty install done over the weekend and do a test drive.

Don't judge the install, this was done quicly

Torque arm length would need to be 1/2in longer to be able to put the clamps on each side of the threaded hole. Right now the right clamp is ON TOP of the hole.(these are not the ones that came with the kit, I ordered larger ones from McMaster & Carr). Test fiting with tape to protect frame :



I have some adhesive rubber pads so I cut one up to protect the frame for the rest of the install :



Installed the battery on the left side of the rear suspension - it won't stay there but I wanted to do a quick test :



Phaserunner installed on the seat post :



And the thumb throttle on the left with another smaller throttle for regen on the right (not really visible). Borrowed a Garmin Edge from a buddy to do some tests - I might just buy it from him (he wants a bigger one).

Again don't judge the install - it was done in a hurry to do a test




The "Super Harness" came with one of the insulation on a wire a bit short, contacted Grin

Fully charged 36V battery (42V) -> 33kph on the GPS. Perfect for the legal limit of 32kph here. When nearly depleted, I get around 25kph.

I think I'd like to get some pedal assist... so :
Plan A) Try to inject the torque from the power pedals over TRSS
Plan B) Get the CADENCE from the power pedals and send over TRSS
Plan C) Get their cadence PAS sensor , cut it open and 3d print something that fits my crank
Plan D) if all else fails, get their torque sending BB. Chainline is fine (47mm) and uses 104 BCD so super easy to find chainrings for cheap.. but uses tapered square crank arms without chainring mounts (essentially unicycle arms) - 170mm only... and sourcing smaller ones is proving hard.

 

[remyo]

Not using any pedal assist right now. Grin's split 12 pole PAS sensor is B/O and their regular PAS sensor only works with square tapers.

I'm currently checking how hard it would be (and if responsive enough) to pickup the ANT plus signal from my power pedals and send that over TTL to the phaserunner. I have the ANT+ stack coded and working but I'm having issues with the TTL communication - Still don't know if that will be responsive enough / work at all but I won't have any time to play on this for a few days.

I did manage to get a quick & dirty install done over the weekend and do a test drive.

Don't judge the install, this was done quicly

Torque arm length would need to be 1/2in longer to be able to put the clamps on each side of the threaded hole. Right now the right clamp is ON TOP of the hole.(these are not the ones that came with the kit, I ordered larger ones from McMaster & Carr). Test fiting with tape to protect frame :

View attachment 20351

I have some adhesive rubber pads so I cut one up to protect the frame for the rest of the install :

View attachment 20352

Installed the battery on the left side of the rear suspension - it won't stay there but I wanted to do a quick test :

View attachment 20353

Phaserunner installed on the seat post :

View attachment 20354

And the thumb throttle on the left with another smaller throttle for regen on the right (not really visible). Borrowed a Garmin Edge from a buddy to do some tests - I might just buy it from him (he wants a bigger one).

Again don't judge the install - it was done in a hurry to do a test

View attachment 20355


The "Super Harness" came with one of the insulation on a wire a bit short, contacted Grin

Fully charged 36V battery (42V) -> 33kph on the GPS. Perfect for the legal limit of 32kph here. When nearly depleted, I get around 25kph.

I think I'd like to get some pedal assist... so :
Plan A) Try to inject the torque from the power pedals over TRSS
Plan B) Get the CADENCE from the power pedals and send over TRSS
Plan C) Get their cadence PAS sensor , cut it open and 3d print something that fits my crank
Plan D) if all else fails, get their torque sending BB. Chainline is fine (47mm) and uses 104 BCD so super easy to find chainrings for cheap.. but uses tapered square crank arms without chainring mounts (essentially unicycle arms) - 170mm only... and sourcing smaller ones is proving hard.

Super cool build! Would love to connect sometime soon, I’m currently converting 2 Q45s to Grin electric systems (All Axle Motor, Phaserunner, 8x LiGo 10X, Cycle Analyst, torque sensing BB, thumb throttle, proportional brake lever regen braking), modeling and 3D printing lots of adaptors and mounts.

I’m itching to make a custom CNC torque arm that’s more integrated with the bike frame, but for now I have the silver bracket reversed and doubled up to allow the hose clamps to be further back to not interfere with the screw boss, thought I’d mention it in case it might work for you on the a4X frame. Makes screw access a little harder but since my screw bosses aren’t embedded in the arm it’s necessary.

The lack of crank arm options is definitely tough, I ended up going for the stock ones and then coding up a Ras Pi, replacing soon with a Nordic 52840 for long term use, that pulls the ride stats and human power from the torque sensor and streams it to my bike computer, it’s been working great, and I made it stream the pedal balance figure that’s usually left/right foot, to be human/electric motor balance so the graphs at the end of the ride show the two curves.

Working on fine tuning the build still, will share more pics soon.

Cheers,
Remy

 

[llavalle]

Super cool build! Would love to connect sometime soon, I’m currently converting 2 Q45s to Grin electric systems (All Axle Motor, Phaserunner, 8x LiGo 10X, Cycle Analyst, torque sensing BB, thumb throttle, proportional brake lever regen braking), modeling and 3D printing lots of adaptors and mounts.

I’m itching to make a custom CNC torque arm that’s more integrated with the bike frame, but for now I have the silver bracket reversed and doubled up to allow the hose clamps to be further back to not interfere with the screw boss, thought I’d mention it in case it might work for you on the a4X frame. Makes screw access a little harder but since my screw bosses aren’t embedded in the arm it’s necessary.

The lack of crank arm options is definitely tough, I ended up going for the stock ones and then coding up a Ras Pi, replacing soon with a Nordic 52840 for long term use, that pulls the ride stats and human power from the torque sensor and streams it to my bike computer, it’s been working great, and I made it stream the pedal balance figure that’s usually left/right foot, to be human/electric motor balance so the graphs at the end of the ride show the two curves.

Working on fine tuning the build still, will share more pics soon.

Cheers,
Remy

Let's connect! Sending you a private message.

Doubling the silver piece is interesting. Having a longer torque arm laser cut is pretty easy - Grin has the models on their website, you just remove the lighting pocket and send that to "SendCutSend"

Funny you mention a Nordic 52840. I actually have been playing with one for a few weeks. I managed to get the Ant+ softdevice on it and broadcast fake Lev+ info (battery level, etc). How do you pull the data from the Phase/Baserunner? Looks like most of the 52840 is 3V logic so I bought a logic shifter to 5V and was planning to start playing with the TRSS feed (TTL). I have the spec file (MODBUS) and managed to extract the register list from Phaserunner suite (since we don't have the xml file from ASI). Haven't had the time to do it yet.

 

[llavalle]

Alright, big update.

Was waiting around to see if I could snatch a Shimano Deore XT DI2 M8250 in medium cage with a 9-45 cassette. Contacted a trusted dealer on AliExpress and he told me these were super new and he would get them in VERY small quantity every now and then. He reached out 2 weeks ago saying "I'll be adding 5 in inventory this week, I'll let you know, snatch them fast they go away fast". Seems like the actual cassette is the thing that's hard to find. My plan B was getting the derailleur and shifter from him and the cassette from a bikeshop in Canada but he ended up getting some and they were delivered.

Also got the wheels from Hunt!

Here's the Hunt rear wheel with the ZTTO cassette which I ended up never testing since the DI2 stuff arrived before the missing endcap from my hunt order



Received the DI2 set yesterday


The 9 speed smallest cog requires a new cassette tool... so I picked the official one from Shimano at a local bike shop + an extra DI2 battery




I then installed everything up. Measured the chain, removed the cable run for my Deore 11speed setup.



The hunt wheels are centerlock disks. Wasn't sure if there was clearance enough for the adapter, turns out it fits fine so I won't have to buy centerlock rotors.



I also tidied up the Grin kit installation. Installed cable hiders, routed everything properly, etc etc. The only thing needed is to CAD and then FAB a bracket to hold the battery UNDER the frame instead of on the rear swing arm.

Cockpit looks like this :



Left side has thumb throtle and assist controller


Right side has DI2 shifter (aux button controls the garmin edge previous / next & ring) and the regen button (not sure I like this, might change that to a brake sensor + using the left throttle)



Side views :




Alright, now the scary part : cost $$$ - I'll do a separate post for this!

In the meantime, I also rode a bit (weather has been kinda crap). 115km done so far (71miles). Feeling a LOT more comfortable now. Almost never stumble when starting from a stop. I'm still having issues with turning on a tight radius to the right for some reason (I had the same issue with motorcycles at first) but I should be able to go clipped in soon.

 

[llavalle]

Cost $$

So in my first post I said :

Get a A4X Frameset in order to avoid paying 13% tariffs into Canada (bike parts are 5% instead)

• this gives me roughly $2700 CAD to pay for the rest of the components to break even. I would be happy to let Cruz take a cut of the profit on the components but the tariffs are.. yeah, not the same.

I just did the full math! Everything is in CAD and the big difference is because of the increased tariffs on complete bikes in Canada. This only applies to Canada.

The full difference between the Frameset vs the full bike is actually $2,852.99 (saving a bit on shipping and a LOT on tariffs).

Here's the breakdown of the stuff I needed because I didn't buy the complete bike.

Item	Seller	Price	Shipping	Duties / Brokerage	Taxes	Total
Evocid Crank w/bb	AliExpress	$103.88	$0.00	$0.00	$15.56	$119.44
RT86 Rotors	AliExpress	$56.36	$19.70	$0.00	$0.00	$76.06
40T Chainring 6mm	AliExpress	$24.94	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$24.94
M8250 XT DI2	AliExpress	$798.98	$54.98	$0.00	$0.00	$853.96
Extra DI2 Battery	Local Bike Shop	$75.99	$0.00	$0.00	$11.38	$87.37
Used wheels w/tires	FB Marketplace	$200.00	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$200.00
Hunt 650b MS set	Hunt	$506.00	$66.00	$11.40	$87.36	$670.76
Centerlock Adapters (2)	Hunt	$38.00	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$38.00
TRP Spire	Fortnine	$221.98	$0.00	$0.00	$33.24	$255.22
FM Adapters	Fortnine	$38.64	$0.00	$0.00	$5.79	$44.43
Tiagra Levers	Fortnine	$42.99	$0.00	$0.00	$6.44	$49.43
Jagwire Brake Kit	Fortnine	$36.99	$0.00	$0.00	$5.54	$42.53

Total : $2,462.14 - Still $390.85 cheaper than the full bike I'm using the (new) tires and tube from the FB Marketplace wheels but will resell the wheels now. 200$ for 2 tires and 2 tube is pretty spot on retail price for what I have anyway.

One could argue "yeah but you bought a 11s speed deore set and some MT-200 brakes you're not using". Fair, here's what I bought and didn't end up using :

Item	Seller	Price	Shipping	Duties / Brokerage	Taxes	Total
MT200	AliExpress	$39.99	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$39.99
Deore 11s	AliExpress	$136.38	$61.38	$0.00	$0.00	$197.76
38T Chainring 6mm	AliExpress	$24.94	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$24.94
PM Adapters	Fortnine	$32.02	$0.00	$0.00	$4.79	$36.81
Front Deraileur Stalk	CruzBike	$50.00	$0.00	$2.50	$7.86	$60.36
JagWire Shift Kit	Fortnine	$24.99	$0.00	$0.00	$3.74	$28.73
Flat Pedals	Amazon	33.59	$0.00	$0.00	$5.03	$38.62

I gave the MT200 to my brother he's got a bunch of bikes for his kids with those on. I might use the 38T chainring still, well see how the 40T works with the 9-45T cassette. I'll probably resell the Deore 11s for cheap, it's almost new but the Front Derailleur stalk was bought "in case" and this isn't something I can resell. I'll keep it.

Total : $427.22 - now $36.37 over budget

I also needed some tools I didn't already have :

Item	Seller	Price	Shipping	Duties / Brokerage	Taxes	Total
Shimano TL-LR021	Local Bike Shop	$53.90	$0.00	$0.00	$8.07	$61.97
BB Wrench	Amazon	$16.02	$0.00	$0.00	$2.40	$18.42

I already had a chain whip, a regular cassette tool, bike stand, cable cutters and regular shop tools (allen keys, etc)

Total : $80.39 - not counting that in the budget.. because... tools never count

So all in, I'm $36.37 over the cost of the full bike from Cruz (excluding tools). This gets me :

• Brakes :
  • Almost the same brakes - Cruz ships the OEM version, they are functionally the same to the TRP ones with minor differences : the TRP have a screw for the pads and a dust cover + are slightly lighter. They also look a bit better.
  • Probably equal quality levers - I do prefer the Tiagra ones (look)
  • Unsure if the assembled bike has compression-less brake housing but I have JagWire which is amazing IMO
  • My rotors are superior to what the factory bike ships with but they are just rotors lol
  • My take : I would call that a tie. Slight edge because of nicer looking rotors, calipers and levers.
• Groupset
  • While the SRAM NX 12 is a reliable groupset, I personally hate the way SRAM shifts (their flat chains are a lot better but require a direct mount setup)
  • The DI2 XT setup is INSANELY good. Think close to SRAM RED AXS good. It also integrates with Garmin Edge computers to : see and track the gear you're on + show you the calibration setting when adjusting the derailleur. The 2 levers are fully adjustable on the shifter and the 3rd button can be paired with the Garmin to go next and previous screen (push or push & hold) as well as ring the bell (double click)
  • If I decide to go with drop bars at one point, the new DI2 stuff is cross compatible with the GRX and 105 STI shifters. This would require me to go with hydraulic brakes - more on that later.
  • My take : my setup is a serious upgrade on top of the factory bike. If I bough those at MSRP in Canada, it would be over budget but getting OEM stuff from China made this price competitive.
• Crank, BB and chainring
  • While I initially though of their crank option as weird, now that I've ridden the bike and shopped for various options, the Croder is definitely a great option
  • My Evocid crank is cheaper - people bend them in MTB applications LOL.. not an issue since it's not holding my weight anyway and my BB is clearly cheaper too.
  • My take : Cruz's factory option is superior. Having modularity is key. Want longer arms? just change that. Need chainrings? just buy them. Easy to find, easy to source.
• Wheels, Hubs and tires
  • I've always been a fan of Hunt wheels. I like how easy it is to order replacement parts, even from the UK. Shipping is quick and efficient (FedEx International services) which includes brokerage.
  • I don't hands on experience with Chosen for the hubs but having the ability to easily source (as a consumer) HG, Microspline or XD freehubs is great with Hunt wheels
  • Rims are probably comparable - we're not talking super high end carbon stuff here.
  • Tires : Love Maxxis Receptors from the factory bike... not so sure about my Vittoria Terenno Zero. Price wise the Maxxis are more affordable.
  • My Take : Slight edge for my setup. Wheels a off the shelf with tons of replacement parts easy to source around the world and while I might not like my tires, they are usually better reviewed than the Maxxis

The net of it is : for around the same price total, I got a bike with

• Similar braking capabilities with better looking brake components (and very very slightly lighter)
• Significant better groupset
• Lower quality crank, chainring and BB
• Slightly better wheels
• And a ton of fun building it all!

 

[llavalle]

Ok, now the part that hurts the most. Accessories (that would have been on a factory bike too)

Item	Seller	Price	Shipping	Duties / Brokerage	Taxes
Clipless Pedal Adapters	AliExpress	$27.78	$0.00	$0.00	$0.00	$27.78
SPD Cleats	AliExpress	$10.78	$10.55	$0.00	$0.00	$21.33
MagicShine Light 1200 w/remote	Fortnine	$123.98	$0.00	$0.00	$18.57	$142.55
MagicShine Rear	Fortnine	$37.99	$0.00	$0.00	$5.69	$43.68
Zefal Mirror	Fortnine	$30.99	$0.00	$0.00	$4.64	$35.63
Cateye Reflector	Fortnine	$12.07	$0.00	$0.00	$1.81	$13.88
Sunlite Bag	CruzBike	$50.00	$0.00	$2.50	$7.86	$60.36
Voile Strap	CruzBike	$15.00	$0.00	$0.75	$2.36	$18.11
Spare Droupout	CruzBike	$36.00	$0.00	$1.80	$5.66	$43.46
Lightmount	CruzBike	$29.00	$0.00	$1.45	$4.56	$35.01
Bottle Cages	CruzBike	$58.00	$0.00	$2.90	$9.12	$70.02
Ventiseat	CruzBike	$162.00	$0.00	$8.10	$25.47	$195.57
A4X Framebag	CruzBike	$92.00	$0.00	$4.60	$14.47	$111.07
ProMX Power Pedals	LaBicicletta	$945.00	$0.00	$0.00	$141.51	$1,086.51
GoPro Large Tube mount	Amazon	$64.99	$0.00	$0.00	$9.73	$74.72
Garmin Edge 850	Amazon	$699.00	$0.00	$0.00	$104.68	$803.68
Coospo BK9 Speed & Cad	Amazon	$65.99	$0.00	$0.00	$9.88	$75.87
Garmin Watch mount	Amazon	$19.84	$0.00	$0.00	$2.97	$22.81

Total : $2,882.04 - ok, I splurged with the Pro MX power pedals - I like having power meters and having just 1 side annoyed me but I'm not a pro whatsoever. I also caved in with the Edge when it went on sale last week for $100 off retail. At least both of those can be used on my other bikes easily.


And the eBike conversion :

Item	Seller	Price	Shipping	Duties / Brokerage	Taxes	Total
WTB 650b i25 Rim	Fortnine	$98.99	$0.00	$0.00	$4.95	$103.94
Stainless Pipe Clamps	McMaster	$44.72	$14.27	$0.00	$2.24	$61.23
All Axle V3	Grin	$765.00	$66.55	$0.00	$38.25	$869.80
Front Torque Arm	Grin	$40.50	$0.00	$0.00	$2.03	$42.53
12x100 TA adapter	Grin	$13.50	$0.00	$0.00	$0.68	$14.18
Magura Rotor 160mm	Grin	$36.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.80	$37.80
Statorade Injection	Grin	$27.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.35	$28.35
Wheelbuilding (custom rim)	Grin	$120.00	$0.00	$0.00	$6.00	$126.00
Spokes	Grin	$67.20	$0.00	$0.00	$3.36	$70.56
Phaserunner V6 L10	Grin	$470.00	$0.00	$0.00	$23.50	$493.50
Phaserunner Heatsink	Grin	$33.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.65	$34.65
MiniOled Display	Grin	$115.00	$0.00	$0.00	$5.75	$120.75
Super Harness	Grin	$74.00	$0.00	$0.00	$3.70	$77.70
Thumb Throttle	Grin	$27.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.35	$28.35
36V 10Ah Bottle Battery	Grin	$490.00	$70.00	$0.00	$24.50	$584.50
36V 2A ST3 charger	Grin	$65.00	$0.00	$0.00	$3.25	$68.25
Wire Routing Kit	Grin	$16.25	$0.00	$0.00	$0.81	$17.06
250W laser mark	Grin	$20.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.00	$21.00
TTL USB Cable	Grin	$19.00	$0.00	$0.00	$0.95	$19.95
Button Thumb Throttle	Grin	$27.00	$0.00	$0.00	$1.35	$28.35
3-4Pin Ebrake Adapter	Grin	$12.25	$0.00	$0.00	$0.61	$12.86
9 pin main cable ext	Grin	$13.00	$0.00	$0.00	$0.65	$13.65

Total : $2,874.95 - we'll need to add the laser cutting / bending of the battery mount to that (~$100). Anyone needs stainless clamps? minimum order quantity was 20 of each size so I tool 2 sizes lol.


So recap (all shipping, tariffs, brokerage and taxes included, in CAD). Also, CAD/USD exchange rate will impact this. Cruz changes their prices in CAD (I'm guessing Shopify offers that as a feature) regularly.

• $7,640.61 for the bike itself
  • $5,178.47 for the Frameset
  • $2,462.14 for the stuff needed on top of the frameset
• $427.22 in stuff I ended up swapping out (MT 200, Deore 11 speed, etc etc)
• $2,874.95 for the ebike conversion
  • $10,515.56 for bike + conversion

Oh, and $2,882.04 in accessories lol


Compared to my other option (Catrike All Road), the "base" bike is roughly the same price and the ebike option is significantly more expensive with the Bosch.

• $7,023.45 ($6,110 + taxes) for the base bike OR
• $12,443.34 ($10,825 + taxes) for the one with the Bosch Mid Drive up front