New Buyer Advice - S40 versus Q45?

[JonVandal]

Hello Cruzbike community.

I have been watching and reading about Cruzbikes for several years, ever since visiting a great guy named Gary at his shop, NW Recumbent Bikes in northern Idaho.

I have been tucking away gift money for a long time, and I'm hoping 2024 is the year I finally get to join the CB crowd with my own bike. But now that the moment seems close, I find myself torn between the S40 and the Q45. So I'm hoping if I give you a little background about my riding, some of you might offer me some input on which bike might best meet my riding preferences.

I very recently retired and currently own both a traditional road bike and a decent full suspension mountain bike. I enjoy getting out on flowy single track a few times a summer, but I am not a thrill seeker when trail riding. I expect to keep riding my traditional mountain bike for those kinds of experiences, at least for the next several years.

Most of my riding is on my road bike, and primarily on a few paved trails in my area of rural northern Idaho. I enjoy both shorter, hard & fast bike workouts and also building up my endurance to do longer rides. I'm motivated by keeping data on distance, average speed, cadence and such, and I really enjoy feeling like I am improving on my average cruising speed, especially on longer rides. I have done several century rides in support of Bike MS, and have always had a goal to someday do Seattle To Portland as a one day ride. And I would love to get into multiple day rides soon, perhaps even to ride across the U.S.

I often ride with a friend of mine who only has one bike, which could probably be described as a hybrid bike; with drop handlebars but wider tires that allow him and his wife to also ride on converted gravel Rails-To-Trails. And where I live there are also many, many miles of beautiful country gravel roads that could also be explored.

I can probably only afford to pick one CruzBike to purchase, at least for the foreseeable future. So I find myself torn between getting the S40 that I KNOW I would love pushing my limits on to see how fast and far I can go without the pressure point discomforts of my traditional road bike. But I would also love to get further off the beaten path and away from the noise and danger of car traffic.

So I am seeking input on which machine I might be able to hit more of the types of riding I would like to enjoy. Is it possible to affordably get and fit a second, wider set of wheels and tires on an S40, that would allow me to feel in control handling it on packed gravel roads and trails? Or might I be better off with the comfort of the Q45's suspension and wider tires, and perhaps buy a narrower set of wheels and higher pressure tires for when I want to go faster and longer on the pavement? I know from the bike info that the Q45 "off the shelf" weighs about 4.5 pounds more than the S40, which I am guessing I would feel; particularly on climbs. But I also weigh about 220 pounds and I often wonder if a few pounds on a bike really makes that big an impact when there is room to "lighten the load" on myself. ???

Perhaps other factors I have not touched on or even considered when trying to make this choice?

If you have slogged your way to the end of this long message for a brand new member to the forum, THANK YOU for taking the time to read it (and hopefully) offer me any insights you might be willing to share with me. Have a good one.

 

[Always-Learnin]

Welcome to the forums...

I own a 2021 S40. I ride it primarily on my indoor trainer but, since my wife has MS, I have also used it on two MS150 (~160 miles). I have ridden in 6 MS150s over the years on traditional road bikes and the last two on the S40 were absolutely awesome. Almost no fatigue. This of course also included MS sponsored rides in preparation for the main ride. All rides were +50 miles. The only issue you will likely have is 'potentially' recumbutt. However, this can be mitigated in a number of ways. Check out the forums for details.

The S40 can be outfitted with wider tires again, the forums will provide much info on that. As a diamond frame road bike replacement, I have found that I am 1-2 mph faster on the S40 as compared to my Carbon Cervelo.

The 'general consensus' seems to be that the Q45 would be better for gravel roads however, that is determined by many subjective factors. One individual in the forums indicated that properly configued, his Q45 was every bit as fast as his S40. But that took some creative modification as I recall.

I don't think either choice would be a bad choice. It really comes down to the type of riding you expect to be doing MOST of the time. When you determine that, you will not only be able to make an informed decision, but also be able to investigate ways to modify your choice for those times when you want to do something different in terms of ride choices.

I hope this helps in some small way. Others will chime in so stay tuned for thier expertise...

One more thing...if you make a choice and decide that you should have gone the other direction, used Cruzbikes retain their resale value so you could always post it for sale here.

And, don't forget there is a 100 mile return window also!

 

[JerseyJim]

This is probably the best formed question I've ever seen requesting advice on which Cruzbike model to choose. It makes it easy to recommend the S40.

You'll be able to get wide and narrow tires on the S40. With wide enough tires, you won't miss the rear suspension of the Q45.

You'll be able to fit 700c and 650b wheels.

You'll be able to sit in a more aerodynamic position. This will have a far greater effect than weight. As a percentage of total system weight (You and your bike) 4.5 pounds is like 1.8% of total system weight. Even if that meant you'd be 1.8% faster (it doesn't), unless you're in a competition, it won't amount to anything that matters.

You said you like short, hard & fast bike workouts, so I think you'll enjoy how the S40 responds when set up with narrow tires.

 

[Tuloose]

I have been on many gravel trails and dirt logging roads, some with steep switchbacks, on my unsuspended T50. Yes it does jounce me around a bit but decreasing tire pressure goes a long way to making for a more comfortable ride.
From what you describe I would say the S40 would be more to your liking since it can handle dirt with the right tires and with a tire switch can be a decent road bike.
Once you get the hang or riding a Cruzbike you'll be amazed at how fast they are.
I know of at least one local S40 owner who plans to do the STP ride next year.

 

[Velocivixen]

How many pairs of wheels are you planning on having handy?

 

[JonVandal]

Welcome to the forums...

I own a 2021 S40. I ride it primarily on my indoor trainer but, since my wife has MS, I have also used it on two MS150 (~160 miles). I have ridden in 6 MS150s over the years on traditional road bikes and the last two on the S40 were absolutely awesome. Almost no fatigue. This of course also included MS sponsored rides in preparation for the main ride. All rides were +50 miles. The only issue you will likely have is 'potentially' recumbutt. However, this can be mitigated in a number of ways. Check out the forums for details.

The S40 can be outfitted with wider tires again, the forums will provide much info on that. As a diamond frame road bike replacement, I have found that I am 1-2 mph faster on the S40 as compared to my Carbon Cervelo.

The 'general consensus' seems to be that the Q45 would be better for gravel roads however, that is determined by many subjective factors. One individual in the forums indicated that properly configued, his Q45 was every bit as fast as his S40. But that took some creative modification as I recall.

I don't think either choice would be a bad choice. It really comes down to the type of riding you expect to be doing MOST of the time. When you determine that, you will not only be able to make an informed decision, but also be able to investigate ways to modify your choice for those times when you want to do something different in terms of ride choices.

I hope this helps in some small way. Others will chime in so stay tuned for thier expertise...

One more thing...if you make a choice and decide that you should have gone the other direction, used Cruzbikes retain their resale value so you could always post it for sale here.

And, don't forget there is a 100 mile return window also!

Thanks for taking the time to offer your response here A-L. My main riding partner and friend across the street has an adult daughter with MS, so that is how I became involved in the Ride MS cause.

I appreciate the input on the S40. And I also agree that either model will be a good choice. I can't wait to not have numb hands and a sore neck after a long ride!

Take care.

 

[JonVandal]

This is probably the best formed question I've ever seen requesting advice on which Cruzbike model to choose. It makes it easy to recommend the S40.

You'll be able to get wide and narrow tires on the S40. With wide enough tires, you won't miss the rear suspension of the Q45.

You'll be able to fit 700c and 650b wheels.

You'll be able to sit in a more aerodynamic position. This will have a far greater effect than weight. As a percentage of total system weight (You and your bike) 4.5 pounds is like 1.8% of total system weight. Even if that meant you'd be 1.8% faster (it doesn't), unless you're in a competition, it won't amount to anything that matters.

You said you like short, hard & fast bike workouts, so I think you'll enjoy how the S40 responds when set up with narrow tires.

Hi Jim.

Thanks for your input recommending the S40. I think the performance of an S40 is really where I feel myself being pulled. I just have so many opportunities on unpaved roads and trails in my part of the country, I am hoping one of the models will allow me to do both at levels that I will enjoy more than I do on my diamond frame bikes.

And I appreciate the feedback on the bike weight issue as well. I understand why people are interested in shaving weight where they can and as they can afford to, but I don't think it needs to be a deal maker or breaker for my situation.

Take care.

 

[JonVandal]

I have been on many gravel trails and dirt logging roads, some with steep switchbacks, on my unsuspended T50. Yes it does jounce me around a bit but decreasing tire pressure goes a long way to making for a more comfortable ride.
From what you describe I would say the S40 would be more to your liking since it can handle dirt with the right tires and with a tire switch can be a decent road bike.
Once you get the hang or riding a Cruzbike you'll be amazed at how fast they are.
I know of at least one local S40 owner who plans to do the STP ride next year.

I appreciate hearing from someone who rides a fair amount on dirt roads and trails, and love knowing I am getting input from people who already own several Cruzbike models.

Thanks for your feedback Tuloose. Have a great evening.

 

[JonVandal]

How many pairs of wheels are you planning on having handy?

Hopefully only two!

 

[woodguy]

Jon - I bought my Q45 in 2018 when they were first released. I don’t have any personal experience with the S40, but based on what I have read on the forum over the years, it is going to be faster. Speed has never been my main goal, but I do share your interest in long rides & being comfortable. I also share the 210 lb weight situation with my engine. I have found that being more reclined reduces the amount of weight on my butt which minimizes recumbutt. That means I have replaced the standard Q45 seat with a Thor seat. I have never tried different wheel or tire sizes so can’t speak to that.

When I’m riding around home, there is a combination of roads and trails, some gravel. I have done multiple week long 600 mile plus rides, and a Coast to Coast in 2019. If you’d interested, you can read about some of my experiences on a blog I wrote: jimscruiseacrossamerica.blogspot.com

I don’t regret having the Q45 at all, but as others have said, it kind of depends on what’s most important to you. Chances are that whatever you get will be so much better than the uprights that it won’t matter a lot.

 

[vmi1056]

Hi Jon,

I thought I would chime in here and give my 2 cents. I am fortunate enough to own a Q45 and S40. I really love my S40 for a number of different reasons and like you, I push over 200 lbs. That being said, recumbutt is a real thing and I have struggled with trying to figure out a fix for that. The pain sets in after about a dozen miles or so on my rides and after a 30-40 mile ride, I can’t wait to get off of the bike, fun ride or not. There are suggestions on this forum on how S40 owners have added different padding configurations to the seats to help with this issue. I haven’t found the right one yet. Maybe it’s the amount of weight pushing down and that 40 degree is set by the frame so there is no way to recline the angle.

For the Q45, I was never a fan of the stock seat so I added a Thor Seat and what a difference a few degrees make! I would estimate the angle to be around 35 degrees or so and it has made all the difference, it is truly one of the most comfortable bikes I have ever ridden. The weight it evenly distributed and it has pronounced back support. I have the Thor Seat, Kind air shock, and 42mm Rene Herse Tires and the bike just about glides down the road. Given the aero advantage of the seat angle, I am a bit quicker than the stock set up. Not as fast as I am on the S40 but I’ll sacrifice a mph or two for all day comfort. As a side note, I have also experimented with a mesh seat on the Q, as others have and that makes for a comfy ride as well.

That being said, I have not given up on my S40. I may swap my Thor to the S40 to give it a try to see if it helps the recumbutt. That’s one of the fun parts of owning a CB, so many different ways to experiment to dial in that perfect fit. Good luck.

 

[Robert Holler]

I do not have an exact date yet, but coming soon will be a seat bottom extension that should make our new adjustable CF seat work well with the S40 (It was designed primarily as-is for the V20 frame and its more extreme recline)

The lower section of new seat is not particularly suited for the S40, but the new extension should fix that issue.

That could help a lot, as it will have a bigger and more curved area for the bum.

 

[vmi1056]

I do not have an exact date yet, but coming soon will be a seat bottom extension that should make our new adjustable CF seat work well with the S40 (It was designed primarily as-is for the V20 frame and its more extreme recline)

The lower section of new seat is not particularly suited for the S40, but the new extension should fix that issue.

That could help a lot, as it will have a bigger and more curved area for the bum.

Hi Robert, I appreciate that feedback. I do have the CB carbon seat on my S40 and I personally think it is an improvement over the stock seat, particularly being able to adjust the back to support my wide shoulders where needed most. And unless you are talking about something different, I have an extension on the seat that slides in and out. I may not have it out far enough and I think the padding under it has flatten out a bit. I’ll try sliding that out further and beef up the padding to see if that helps.

Thank you.

 

[Always-Learnin]

Thanks for taking the time to offer your response here A-L. My main riding partner and friend across the street has an adult daughter with MS, so that is how I became involved in the Ride MS cause.

I appreciate the input on the S40. And I also agree that either model will be a good choice. I can't wait to not have numb hands and a sore neck after a long ride!

Take care.

Check you DM.

 

[JerseyJim]

To answer the comparison between the S40 and Q45 for a forum website, here's a way to structure the response using external sources:

---

"When considering a choice between the S40 and Q45, it's vital to delve into various aspects before making a decision. For a detailed analysis, I would recommend consulting renowned automotive websites such as Car and Driver, Edmunds, or Motor Trend. These sites often feature comprehensive reviews, comparison tools, and user forums discussing the differences in performance, features, and overall value between the S40 and Q45. As for finding the best budget motorcycle helmet or a cost-effective option, considering safety and quality within a limited budget is essential. Websites specializing in motorcycle gear like RevZilla or Cycle Gear often provide comprehensive reviews and buyer's guides for affordable yet reliable helmet options. Additionally, browsing through user discussions on forums such as Motorcycle.com or Bike Chat can offer valuable recommendations and experiences shared by fellow riders, assisting in making a well-informed decision within your budget."

That looks like a ChatGPT response.

 

[ShawnG]

Hi Jon,

I thought I would chime in here and give my 2 cents. I am fortunate enough to own a Q45 and S40. I really love my S40 for a number of different reasons and like you, I push over 200 lbs. That being said, recumbutt is a real thing and I have struggled with trying to figure out a fix for that. The pain sets in after about a dozen miles or so on my rides and after a 30-40 mile ride, I can’t wait to get off of the bike, fun ride or not. There are suggestions on this forum on how S40 owners have added different padding configurations to the seats to help with this issue. I haven’t found the right one yet. Maybe it’s the amount of weight pushing down and that 40 degree is set by the frame so there is no way to recline the angle.

For the Q45, I was never a fan of the stock seat so I added a Thor Seat and what a difference a few degrees make! I would estimate the angle to be around 35 degrees or so and it has made all the difference, it is truly one of the most comfortable bikes I have ever ridden. The weight it evenly distributed and it has pronounced back support. I have the Thor Seat, Kind air shock, and 42mm Rene Herse Tires and the bike just about glides down the road. Given the aero advantage of the seat angle, I am a bit quicker than the stock set up. Not as fast as I am on the S40 but I’ll sacrifice a mph or two for all day comfort. As a side note, I have also experimented with a mesh seat on the Q, as others have and that makes for a comfy ride as well.

That being said, I have not given up on my S40. I may swap my Thor to the S40 to give it a try to see if it helps the recumbutt. That’s one of the fun parts of owning a CB, so many different ways to experiment to dial in that perfect fit. Good luck.

Hi VMI1056,

I just bought an S40 site unseen and without a long test ride on a T50. It's currently in transit overseas, and I'm starting to get worried about this Recumbutt situation. I was hoping you could tell me if you put your Thor seat onto your S40 and whether it helped or not?

Also, which Thor seat did you buy? I'm looking at the Sport or the Carrier for a more reclined position but my main goal here is for overall comfort on long tours.

Thanks advance for your help.

Best Regards

~Shawn

 

[vmi1056]

Hi VMI1056,

I just bought an S40 site unseen and without a long test ride on a T50. It's currently in transit overseas, and I'm starting to get worried about this Recumbutt situation. I was hoping you could tell me if you put your Thor seat onto your S40 and whether it helped or not?

Also, which Thor seat did you buy? I'm looking at the Sport or the Carrier for a more reclined position but my main goal here is for overall comfort on long tours.

Thanks advance for your help.

Best Regards

~Shawn

Hi Shawn,

Congrats on the purchase, I think you will love the S40 and enjoy riding it like I have. I did install the Thor seat on my S40 and it made a huge difference. To give it a good test, I took it out on a 32-mile loop I frequently take on the weekends and I was amazed how it virtually eliminated the recumbutt. If I felt any soreness starting to set in, I shifted my position ever so slightly and no problem. When I finished my ride, my glutes felt a lot better than they had on that same ride on the other seats.

I decided on the Thor Easy GS in carbon fiber with the thicker version of the Ventisit and it works great for me. All that being said, there are plenty of people that do just fine on the stock seat and others on the Cruzbike Carbon seat. When I first got my S40, I put 500 miles on the stock seat. It’s not that the stock seat makes the bike unrideable or painful, the other seats just provide a higher level of comfort on the longer rides and for many eliminates the recumbutt like it did for me. It won’t take long for you to realize if the stock seat will cause early onset recumbutt and if it does, you can make your decision from there rather you can live with it or need to upgrade the seat. If you do at some point decide to order a Thor, I would recommend emailing Greg at Thor to verify the size you need.

Have fun getting use to your S40!

 

[ShawnG]

Hi

Hi Shawn,

Congrats on the purchase, I think you will love the S40 and enjoy riding it like I have. I did install the Thor seat on my S40 and it made a huge difference. To give it a good test, I took it out on a 32-mile loop I frequently take on the weekends and I was amazed how it virtually eliminated the recumbutt. If I felt any soreness starting to set in, I shifted my position ever so slightly and no problem. When I finished my ride, my glutes felt a lot better than they had on that same ride on the other seats.

I decided on the Thor Easy GS in carbon fiber with the thicker version of the Ventisit and it works great for me. All that being said, there are plenty of people that do just fine on the stock seat and others on the Cruzbike Carbon seat. When I first got my S40, I put 500 miles on the stock seat. It’s not that the stock seat makes the bike unrideable or painful, the other seats just provide a higher level of comfort on the longer rides and for many eliminates the recumbutt like it did for me. It won’t take long for you to realize if the stock seat will cause early onset recumbutt and if it does, you can make your decision from there rather you can live with it or need to upgrade the seat. If you do at some point decide to order a Thor, I would recommend emailing Greg at Thor to verify the size you need.

Have fun getting use to your S40!

Hi VMI1056,

Thanks so much for the advice, once I get the bike, I've got to learn how to use it first. Then I'll take it out for some time and see what's what. If I can go 100k before the Recumbutt sets in. I was looking at the easy or the carrier since those seemed to give a slightly wider pan and upper back area.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate it!

Best Regards

~Shawn

 

[Always-Learnin]

Hi

Hi VMI1056,

Thanks so much for the advice, once I get the bike, I've got to learn how to use it first. Then I'll take it out for some time and see what's what. If I can go 100k before the Recumbutt sets in. I was looking at the easy or the carrier since those seemed to give a slightly wider pan and upper back area.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate it!

Best Regards

~Shawn

A quick and easy (temp) solution should you incur recumbutt on a ride, is to carry a towel that you can roll up and place where your torso meets your legs. Here's another solution:

Optimizing Fit - Eliminate Recumbutt/Hot Foot

I think this should be a useful thread all together about how to fix recumbutt on S40 and other fit issues). Lets discuss. I've never ridden a V20 but Iam blessed to have a S40 gifted to me by some great friends here. I love my S40 and I ride it alot despite my initial fit and hotfoot...

forum.cruzbike.com

Here's my less elegant (temp) solution:

Optimizing Fit - Eliminate Recumbutt/Hot Foot

I think this should be a useful thread all together about how to fix recumbutt on S40 and other fit issues). Lets discuss. I've never ridden a V20 but Iam blessed to have a S40 gifted to me by some great friends here. I love my S40 and I ride it alot despite my initial fit and hotfoot...

forum.cruzbike.com

 

[vmi1056]

Hi

Hi VMI1056,

Thanks so much for the advice, once I get the bike, I've got to learn how to use it first. Then I'll take it out for some time and see what's what. If I can go 100k before the Recumbutt sets in. I was looking at the easy or the carrier since those seemed to give a slightly wider pan and upper back area.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate it!

Best Regards

~Shawn

Please keep us posted on your progress and how the learning is going. Like you, I wanted that upper back support across my broad shoulders, stock seat was okay, Cruzbike carbon seat was better due to being adjustable, Thor seat provided great support across my upper back. Look forward to seeing your progress, I hope you enjoy the learning process as much as I did. Be patient and before you know it, you’ll be out there putting down some serious miles!

Take care,
Vaughn