Q45 First Ride - Knee Pain ...

[GV_Ottawa]

Hello!

I just picked up my new Q45 on Friday and had a chance to ride it for the first time this afternoon. I love the bike so far! I’m coming from an HP Velotechnik StreetMachine GTE so am used to riding recumbents. Thus while I know I still have lots to learn in transitioning to the Cruzbike, I’m generally off to a good start with it!

So ... this afternoon I rode 10 km at a fairly easy pace - averaged 18.7 km/hr speed over the 10 km distance. However, I am feeling pain in my left knee ... I assume this means I need to adjust the length of the pedals / boom ... do you think I likely need to extend the length or bring things back inwards a bit?

Many thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Gary

 

[jond]

Well hello and welcome.

That knee issue might well depend upon where the pain is front or back of the knee.

As an experienced rider you probably are very close to a good setup.

Personally I find mbb best for my wonky knee as opposed to fixed bb.

Time then to experiment in 5 mm incremental adjustments.

it may be that an adaptation process will sort your knee.

after 50k I’m still enjoying fettlin and riding the v.

enjoy the mighty q perhaps your easy pace may have been a little over enthusiastically ridden with the inherent good vibrations of a new bike

 

[benphyr]

Another thought. Were you clipped in on the HPVelotechnik StreetMachine?

On the Cruzbike you would have used all sorts of little stabilizing muscles that you don't need or use on the StreetMachine because relative to you the pedals don't move, now you are trying to keep them still so all those stabilizing muscles are going to get absolutely exhausted when the big muscles that are used to being used significantly think you've hardly warmed up. Best suggestions for gaining strength and coordination with them is: warm up and stretch gently before and after and short rides frequently trains the muscle memory and coordination faster than few longer rides.

That doesn't really address the knee issue - get back to us on the location of the knee pain - if it is not muscle pain then setting the boom extension perfectly can help greatly. My impression is that you are safer to start too close because it is easier to hyper-extend the knee when turning if you have the boom too far out but you can still turn if you have the boom closer than ideal.

Good to meet you the other day. Hope the knee feels better right away.

 

[Rampa]

I found that if I was 5mm to short, my starting knee got really sore. Pushing off from a stop is often the hardest strain.

 

[Opik]

1. Adjust the boom
2. Adjust your foot push. I find my legs start pushing not at the same place. My right leg would push much sooner and my left leg was so much later. this also means the right leg doing much of the work and need to stabili more as it isn't balanced. This wasn't a problem on a DF, but on a Cruzbike, balance is the key. I try to adjust the pushing motion of both legs start at the same place.

3.Adjusting your leg position. This is regarding fit and can be different from people to people, Should your knees be more open or closer to the centre? Should your feet face more outward or inside?

 

[GV_Ottawa]

My left knee is sore on the top (front) left side.

I did not have my feet clipped in on my StreetMachine.

I’ll try moving things in a bit closer as it is fairly far out presently.

Thanks again folks!
Gary

 

[billyk]

My left knee is sore on the top (front) left side.

I did not have my feet clipped in on my StreetMachine.

I’ll try moving things in a bit closer as it is fairly far out presently.

Thanks again folks!
Gary

I will not try to diagnose from afar, but I will say that these bikes have a much larger set of adjustments than you might be used to. As we say in the physics biz, the parameter space is very large. Very small adjustments of boom length, seat position, seat angle make a huge difference. Nothing for it but experimentation, using your particular knees.

As @benphyr said above, setting off on the cruzbike adventure needs to be done gently.

 

[super slim]

My left knee is sore on the top (front) left side.

I did not have my feet clipped in on my StreetMachine.

I’ll try moving things in a bit closer as it is fairly far out presently.

Thanks again folks!
Gary

These helpful hints from others are fantastic, AS usual!
I will be saving this thread in my Chrome favorites, so it is easy to find later!

My only suggestion is to check that you have the same angular float on each side of the cleat to the normal foot position!
Have you got a cleat WITH some float?

 

[GV_Ottawa]

I assume your cleat question refers to using clip on pedals / cycling shoes Slim ... However, I’m just using the regular pedals - Nothing is clipped.

I will experiment with the various boom settings and go from there.

Thanks again all!

 

[Mathew Fy]

I’m currently taking a break from riding as my chondromalacia patellae flaired up while getting into my Trainer Road indoor season. I’ll be restarting soon with low volume, low power to ease back in.
Anyways, here’s a couple good threads to go through for some advice. I know there’s another thread somewhere about ideal peak knee angle.
https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/neophyte-knee-pain-fix.11879/
https://forum.cruzbike.com/threads/crank-length.10159/
https://bikedynamics.co.uk/fit02.htm#1

 

[GV_Ottawa]

Thanks for the tips Mathew! Good luck with your knee issues too ...

 

[paco1961]

I initially had some outside knee pain (IT band) when I first switched to the S40. Put on 1.5c. Pedal spindle extenders and all has been good. Feel more stable on the bike as well

 

[Ross Jantz]

I initially had some outside knee pain (IT band) when I first switched to the S40. Put on 1.5c. Pedal spindle extenders and all has been good. Feel more stable on the bike as well

Me, too.

 

[dule0911]

Well, after ~6000km on the Q45, my diagnosis is Chondromalacia, both knees, MRI scan confirmed it. Trying to save my back with a cruzbike, I f-ed up my knees, I can't seem to catch a brake
The ride I felt pain for the first time was an 160km 3000m+ elevation ride with some pretty steep hills on the way. After it I though I'm getting better and got on the bike sooner then I should have, which only caused more pain. Now I'm a month from my last ride, I crave for a ride soooo much but I can't. The doctor said another month of meds + pt and then a follow up exam.

My question is to anybody who had a similar issue - what did help after the recovery to prevent it in the future? I know that improper gearing was one of the factors in my case, but I'm also interested in other stuff.

1. Cleat position - should the leg be straight on or rotated to be exactly the same as when standing on my feet? My feet are going a bit outwards, I think this might help.
2. Pedal extenders or longer pedal axle - I bought a set of these pedals (XL size) in the meantime, they are by default 15mm longer then standard: https://www.sq-lab.com/en/products/pedals/sqlab-pedals-511.html
3. What type of excersice before/after the ride? Any other sports to combine with cruzbiking?
4. Should I correct the position of the boom? Will it be noticable straightaway if I make I change? I would try this now, but can't, so just asking to know in what direction to go.
5. Diet correction?

I'm finally starting to build my S40, and would like to correct most of the bike-related setup on it, rather then to cause more issues with a similar setup as on the Q45. I know it's not the bikes fault, but rather fine tuning it

 

[Mathew Fy]

My question is to anybody who had a similar issue - what did help after the recovery to prevent it in the future?

I ended 2019 with an overuse syndrome with severe patella pain after ramping up training in the fall. I think I just did too much, too soon. I received a Synvisc injection and took two months off. Starting back up I used a Trainer Road low-volume schedule at half power for a month and gradually ramped back up to normal. No further issues have occurred, knock on wood.

 

[paco1961]

knee issues . . . That's what got me off running (after 35 years) and onto a bike about 10 or so years ago. Chondromalacia was a big problem in my early running days. The only remedy that ever worked was ice, anti-inflamatories and rest. Starting back from a layoff was very low intensity for a few weeks. I have not had that specific problem on either DF or CB but can commend on a few things.

Pedal spindle extenders. I used them on my mtb, gravel and cross DF bikes and they made a world of difference. Occasionally had IT band issues and the extenders were the ticket. Never quite understood how people from 5'1" and 95lbs to 6'5" and 250lbs were supposed to ride bikes with the same distance between their two feet. It's the one odd dimension that cyclists really don't pay any attention to. I use 1cm extenders on my S40 and V20. Never a single IT band issue since I started using them. Have not tried the SQlab pedals but have worked with them on other things and they seem straight up guys. When I was in the midst of my last ditch effort to make DF saddles work for me, they were extremely helpful and actually send me a box full of saddles to try out.

As for the chondromalacia - that usually manifests below the patela and as such you might want to adjust for a bit more leg extension than normal. Too much stress on the knees in the bent position can exacerbate any lower knee problem.

Good luck with it all. Take it slow. Assuming you're not 20 years old, that connective tissue is the slowest to heal.

ps - I am no Dr., just a guy riding bikes who's had just about every overuse injury in the book!

 

[paco1961]

Correction . . . I am a Dr. just not the kind you need. Now if your trees need help, I'm your guy!

 

[benphyr]

Sorry to hear about your damaged body. If you are like me you want to ride even more when you can’t. Bummer! Wishing you speediest recovery ever.

 

[dule0911]

@Mathew Fy
The doctor did mention the injections but was of the opinion that a bit more rest should do the trick, so I'm hopefull that in a month or so I will also start with low power flat rides for an extended period of time and then as time passes ramp um the speed/hills.

@paco1961
The pain is not that bad, I didn't need to take any painkillers/cool it yet - the orthopedic doctor did perscribe me some painkillers before I start my PT, but not sure if I should take them. The pain is sharp but not that intense, and only sporadic now/if I don't pay attention. But thats with a caveat - other then while sleeping/showering, I wear a bandage below the patela on each knee, that helps a lot. For future rides, I don't plan to ride whitout a patela support - jumpers knee strap or bandages, whatever will be more comfortable/practical.
I'm not 20, in a few months I will be 32 but I get what your saying - I already made a mistake in the middle of July by thinking I'm getting better, and messed them up even more with a hilly ride. Lesson learned.

Thanks for the advice on the pedal extenders and on extending the boom - that's exactly what I needed to know! At least as a starting point to try in small increments. The SQLab pedals I plan on using on the S40, and I ordered some pedal extenders (also 15mm) for the Q45. Im 6 foot 2 and that should work ok. Just not sure yet about the cleat position. When the pain was present during riding I tried to hold my foot while uncliping from the pedal (to mimick a more outward foot position) and for the short amount of time got the impression it was better. Now, it might be better just because I changed the position, and not because it's better in the long run. Guess this is something I will need to try out. Based on this video, it does matter:

@benphyr
Thanks, the recovery can take some time since another baby is due in a few days, but I'm worried when I return to pedaling I will do the same mistake again, so just trying to get as much info as possible. I was so stubborn on riding a DF a few years ago that after a succesfull lower back recovery I managed to mess it up in like 4-5 months of intense riding, so stopped riding altogether since I couldn't just ride less then I wanted. This time though, I do not want to stop, I will try my hardest to adjust & control myself.

 

[WalterVAllen]

yeah riding something for first time can cause some strange feelings in your body parts, as subconsciously this is a very big stress for you so everything ig so strained that u may even hurt urself without hurting urself, if u get me lol. Sometimes, before going for a ride in my car, I have such a big stress that I have to take some sedatives like pills or kratom or other herb tea that chills you. My wife was really happy when she saw me starting driving confidently and surely, and all thanks to kratom and those sedatives lol.