Correct. The external cup version. I recommend the mid tune - that is what is on the Q45... I have a heavy tune one coming to test out but am not sure what that is like yet.
Results of installing a Viscoset headset in an S40
- Thread starter SageRider
- Start date
Correct. The external cup version. I recommend the mid tune - that is what is on the Q45... I have a heavy tune one coming to test out but am not sure what that is like yet.
super slim
Zen MBB Master
How many mm above the top of the frame to the top of the tension bolt?
Alex Lemann
Member
Does the viscoset make the S40 easier to ride no hands? I haven't had any trouble with the handling of my S40 (coming from an older Q) but I would love to be able to ride no hands with ease.
billyk
Guru
Possibly, but I'll bet you can learn without it. Take your time. Try the loosest possible grip. Gradually feel the steering control you get with your feet. Take your time. When you're on a nice straight stretch (no traffic), just try loosening your grip every now and then. Get the feel.
Another way is to ride along just pressing your palms against the bars with open hands.
Take your time. It will come. Once you get it, this will seem completely natural, much easier than on an upright bike.
For a long time, I found it much easier on a slight uphill, so I always had positive pressure on the pedals. Try that. It took a longer time before I was comfortable coasting no hands.
Take your time.
Rob Lloyd
Well-Known Member
Does the viscoset require some setup? I thought it was just install and go. The one I put in my home built MBB doesn’t really seem like it’s doing anything. If it is, it’s so slight as to be un-noticeable.
EDIT: Found the Viscoset tuning guide. I have no idea how mine is setup, but I’ll adjust it tonight and try again tomorrow…
EDIT: Found the Viscoset tuning guide. I have no idea how mine is setup, but I’ll adjust it tonight and try again tomorrow…
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Rob,
Two purchase settings options were available, a mid (3 out of 6 plate sets in action) and a high damping (6 out of 6 plate sets in action) setting. The original one on my Q45 was set to mid. I bought for my S40 the mid option too.
At the mid setting, the difference is subtle. On my S40 I have experienced a reduction in the nervousness of the steering. No more unintentional darting off line. Also much more stable at high end of speed range (>30 MPH) when attempting to restart pedaling. Just a more overall relaxed ride.
Does the front wheel still want to flop around when parked? Yes, but there is now a noticeable slight delay before it starts to swing.
I haven't felt the need to adjust to a higher damping setting, although IMO a little more likely wouldn't be a bad thing.
Robert, can you comment yet on your experience with the higher damping setting?
velocio
Austrian roadside steckerlfisch (fish on a stick)
Any word from Cruzbike which of the two damping options they chose to use on the soon to be released, new and improved S40?
BTW, the changes to the upcoming S40 look pretty compelling. Makes me wish I didn't already own an original model.
-Jack
The new S40 will have the mid Viscoset. In my testing the high was just a bit too much - especially if you do any urban riding like I do where I am contstantly making 90 degree turns. Its awesome at high speed... but for overall the mid seems to be the winning ticket.
Robert
Robert
Rob Lloyd
Well-Known Member
I just took mine apart. Surprising simple even on the bike. It was set to 'medium' with 3 clutch disks engaged; I set it to 'maximum' with all 6 disks engaged. Can definitely feel it off the bike now, just steering back and forth. It's raining today, so no test rides 
I think I'm going to put one of these in my gunnar bar'd, tiller-steer'd, RWD midracer, too.
I think I'm going to put one of these in my gunnar bar'd, tiller-steer'd, RWD midracer, too.
I have a Silvio 2.1 and so a Viscoset is out of the question. Has anyone seen any other damping device that might work? I recall from racing motorcycles there are steering dampers that look like little shock absorbers but that seems like overkill.
Im pretty new to Cruzbikes and just getting used to the whole FWD. I'm lazy and looking for a shortcut to a more stable operation.
Im pretty new to Cruzbikes and just getting used to the whole FWD. I'm lazy and looking for a shortcut to a more stable operation.
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jwloach
New Member
I'm a beginner on a Silvio 2.1 too. Not near ready for prime time. A couple of weeks ago I took the headset apart, cleaned it up, and tightened down the top bolt as hard as I could with an allen key. The added steering resistance was quite noticeable, and I was hopeful that my wobbles would reduce. Indeed they did, but I found that I couldn't recover from an oversteer. The steering was too tight, and I had a few scary 'almost-falls'.
I put it back the way it was and am continuing to try to keep the bike steady with a loose steering column. Perhaps the dampening from a Viscoset is different from just overtightening the headset bearings. Dampening must not be the same thing as tightening!
I'm considering getting a new Q45. This Silvio 2.1 is a real challenge.
I put it back the way it was and am continuing to try to keep the bike steady with a loose steering column. Perhaps the dampening from a Viscoset is different from just overtightening the headset bearings. Dampening must not be the same thing as tightening!
I'm considering getting a new Q45. This Silvio 2.1 is a real challenge.
Rob, if you wouldn't mind sharing, what number of disks did you find worked best for you?I just took mine apart. Surprising simple even on the bike. It was set to 'medium' with 3 clutch disks engaged; I set it to 'maximum' with all 6 disks engaged. Can definitely feel it off the bike now, just steering back and forth. It's raining today, so no test rides
I think I'm going to put one of these in my gunnar bar'd, tiller-steer'd, RWD midracer, too.
Hey all,
Note as well that from Cane Creek they have a special SKU for us that you can order a Viscoset cartridge (just the internals) for people who already have a viscose and just want more dampening - already greased and set to the max resistance. It is a simple installation.
Key is to never ever ever wipe clean or disturb the grease that is on the inside - it is the main reason they work.
For the FIRM damping cartridges, the part number and pricing is:
BAA2086 - VISCOSET - DAMPING CARTRIDGE (EC34/ZS44) - FIRM TUNE - BOXED - Retail - $29.99
Note as well that from Cane Creek they have a special SKU for us that you can order a Viscoset cartridge (just the internals) for people who already have a viscose and just want more dampening - already greased and set to the max resistance. It is a simple installation.
Key is to never ever ever wipe clean or disturb the grease that is on the inside - it is the main reason they work.
For the FIRM damping cartridges, the part number and pricing is:
BAA2086 - VISCOSET - DAMPING CARTRIDGE (EC34/ZS44) - FIRM TUNE - BOXED - Retail - $29.99
Hello, Robert. Thanks, as always, for your truly helpful posts (written and video). Given that the ViscoSet EC34/28.6 is out of production, do you know if Cane Creek's replacement, the Hellbender 70 ZS44/28.6, would work in CB's? I have a 2019 Q45 which, I know from your previous posts, accepted the now superceded viscoset EC34.
Hmmm. That I am not sure but I will verify.
Hey all,
Here is the info I got from the folks at Cane Creek:
"The EC34 Viscoset is still manufactured. However, for a while we were not selling them in the aftermarket when we launched the Hellbender 70 version of the product and only offered the ZS44 and ZS56 versions - It was then true that EC34 was only available through Taiwan as an OEM product.
EC34 Viscoset will continue to be available through Synergy as you have been familiar with.
But we also will be introducing the aftermarket version of EC34 Hellbender 70 Visco in June 2025.
BAA2391K - HELLBENDER70 VISCO-ASMBLY-TOP-EC34/28.6-H22.2-BLACK MID TUNE"
So it will definitely still be around.
Robert, thank you again for your assistance. Do you understand Cane Creek's Synergy reference? If so, can you enlighten us? For quite a while now, CC's web page for the EC34 28.6 viscoset headset has indicated that the product is discontinued and out of stock (see web address and screenshot, below). Given that, it's curious to hear that the product is still in production and apparently available to consumers. I'd like to purchase the current EC34 28.6, unless you think the Hellbender model includes updates that justify waiting until June for the upgrade.
Again, thanks, Robert!
(https://canecreek.com/product/visco...PvvkGjI2BinriXDQ6BXvoMub9l1lhyxqRvtVIPE3IH9nd)
Synergy is a sourcing company for OEM, so that is how our supplier gets them from Cane Creek. So not really helpful for retail. I was just glad that they will be releasing an updated replacement for retail this summer.
I am also going to inquire about getting some that we can have as "retrofits" for older bikes, but sourcing component parts like that as an OEM that are not designated for complete bikes is a real can of worms and not easy, so - Ill have to update on that later should it come to fruition.
For example, for a batch of bikes we get "X "number of SRAM cranksets or shifters....we can only get the quantity for the actual bikes we are building. We are not able to buy "spares" of those kind of things directly. No OEM is supposed to do that and doing so can result in a company like SRAM cutting off the manufacturer from future orders. This is to protect their other markets/distribution like bike shops, etc.
Robert
I am also going to inquire about getting some that we can have as "retrofits" for older bikes, but sourcing component parts like that as an OEM that are not designated for complete bikes is a real can of worms and not easy, so - Ill have to update on that later should it come to fruition.
For example, for a batch of bikes we get "X "number of SRAM cranksets or shifters....we can only get the quantity for the actual bikes we are building. We are not able to buy "spares" of those kind of things directly. No OEM is supposed to do that and doing so can result in a company like SRAM cutting off the manufacturer from future orders. This is to protect their other markets/distribution like bike shops, etc.
Robert
Robert,
You are an amazing resource for the Cruzbike community. I can't thank you enough for all you do to help Cruzbikers purchase, set up, and maintain their bikes.
Google brought me to Synergy Sourcing and Trading Company last night. I saw on their webpage that Cane Creek was a Synergy associate. I figured that was probably the correct Synergy reference, but wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying the relationship and what can/can't be expected in terms of sourcing the previous headset. As you said, Synergy isn't a source for retail customers.
Like you, I'm glad to know that Cane Creek plans to release an updated version of the viscoset this summer. I've checked with all the local and online retailers I can identify, and no one has any of the older models on the shelf, so I guess we'll wait til June.
Again, thanks for everything, Robert.
You are an amazing resource for the Cruzbike community. I can't thank you enough for all you do to help Cruzbikers purchase, set up, and maintain their bikes.
Google brought me to Synergy Sourcing and Trading Company last night. I saw on their webpage that Cane Creek was a Synergy associate. I figured that was probably the correct Synergy reference, but wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying the relationship and what can/can't be expected in terms of sourcing the previous headset. As you said, Synergy isn't a source for retail customers.
Like you, I'm glad to know that Cane Creek plans to release an updated version of the viscoset this summer. I've checked with all the local and online retailers I can identify, and no one has any of the older models on the shelf, so I guess we'll wait til June.
Again, thanks for everything, Robert.
Flying Dutchman
Well-Known Member
Well said! I've never come across a supplier as helpful with detailed information as Robert - chapeau!
