Road bike vs. recumbent comparison

[benphyr]

Adding to Larry's "cracked another egg yoke", the 1980's "Ha, ha, I kill me" here's another:

... bombing down a mt at 50mpg!

Paco you must really have eaten a lot of beans, brussel sprouts, or other flatulence causing fuel to only get 50 miles per gallon of gas! Poor SUVs can only get 20mpg, but S40 gets good mileage.

 

[Osiris]

There is a reason they are called "track stands" and not "stop-light stands", or "street stands". I just crack myself up sometime! haha

They are very useful on a mountain bike. One time I had seven riders pass me going the opposite direction on a very narrow trail with nowhere to pull over or put my feet down, so I just did a track stand until they all passed me.

 

[brokemyback]

Comparing DF to Cruzbike - I noticed a huge difference “at the limit” between the two. On the DF it always felt like my head was losing oxygen when I reached the limit. On the Silvio it’s a completely different sensation at the limit - it feels like my heart/lungs are out of oxygen. Have any of you noticed this?

 

[bladderhead]

Definitely. I always think I am strong enough to go faster. I used to try, but each time I did I got so breathless I almost had to stop. I learnt to keep my watts down so I am only slightly breathless. Trouble is, this is really low watts. Climbing is long and slow.

 

[RojoRacing]

Some things are better done on a road bike over a bent

https://cruzbike.com/forum/threads/...tt-bike-that-you-cant-do-on-a-cruzbike.12458/

 

[paco1961]

And some things still better as a video viewed from the comfort of the living room couch!

 

[Osiris]

So over the past few weeks I've been alternating between riding the V20 and my road bike. Saturdays are usually the days I'll be on the road bike, but that ride came to an abrupt end due to thunderstorms. This meant that I was fresh on Sunday when I took the road bike out again, and this time I noticed a huge increase in the amount of power I was able to produce. I would say that in three weeks, my peak power has increased by at least 100 watts on the road bike, while it has remained exactly the same on the Vendetta. I'm also able to maintain high power outputs on the road bike for much longer than before. Why that new found power gain hasn't translated into similar gains on the Vendetta is beyond me. But as pleased as I was with my rapid improvement, I was soon reminded that aerodynamics is the killer. Once I hit 25 mph or more, the Vendetta just leaves the road bike in the dust. I'm a speed junky, so 25 mph is where things start to get entertaining for me, and that's pretty much impossible to maintain for long on the road bike. If it were not for the Vendetta (along with my other bents), I would probably have given up cycling by now.

 

[paco1961]

It’s all about different muscle groups. When riding mostly bent you lose some conditioning in groups not used as much. It then takes a a few weeks to a few months (depending on the individual) to get those bits back in peak form. So more riding a DF will improve that performance without much improvement in performance on the V. But you are right about aero being king!

 

[Balor]

My biggest problem on those short hills is that I’m not yet up for screaming down the downhill at 40mph so there isn’t much momentum to carry up the next hill. Getting there slowly but 28mph is my current max.

You have S40? I thought larger trail would remedy high speed instability issue, it seems like it is not enough. Of course, you eventually get used to that. My first MBB had short trail (about 3cm, to battle flop) and was kinda scary downhill... and, actually, kept being scary - once I've been travelling at 40 mph downhill and was buffeted by a passing truck - that was the scariest experience of my life.
But I guess it is a question of 'how much is enough' - Rojoracing actually exceeded 100 kmh on one very steep downhill, though I recall he mentioned that it was still a scary experience.

My current one (only 6cm of trail, but zero flop due to 90 deg steering angle) seems rock stable at ALL speeds, but I'm yet to exceed 50 kmh - my aerodynamics is decent for a fully suspended bent with fat tires, but definitely not good enough to pedal 50+ kmh on level ground (plus I could only fit MTB chainset), and nearest decent hill quite far .

And for my vendetta set up horizontal boom extreme slow speed stability.

Is there some consensus about that somewhere? I don't understand how boom orientation can help with slow speed stability (aerodynamics - sure).

 

[paco1961]

Had the S40 out for a July 4 spin w my usual group of hammerheads. 60 mi of rolling hills w 2 biggish climbs thrown in. Was able to hit 28mph on two flat stretches. Stability felt better while hammering away - actually felt more stable than coasting down a hill at 30. This Speed thing is coming together slowly. The wider stance from pedal spindle extenders is making a huge difference in balance/stability.

Biggest drawback of the S40 so far is reduced ability to pick out the pot holes ahead, especially on shady descents. It’s always hard - I know. But being a bit lower definitely means they sneak up on you out of nowhere moreso than when sitting high up on a DF. Taking off the sunglasses helps a bit.

 

[DavidCH]

Taking o

I noticed that sometimes with polarized lenses that you get fooled sometimes by the rough road layout... I've stopped using polarized lenses when riding. Not sure if anyone else has experienced that?

 

[Balor]

Had the S40 out for a July 4 spin w my usual group of hammerheads. 60 mi of rolling hills w 2 biggish climbs thrown in. Was able to hit 28mph on two flat stretches. Stability felt better while hammering away - actually felt more stable than coasting down a hill at 30. This Speed thing is coming together slowly. The wider stance from pedal spindle extenders is making a huge difference in balance/stability.

Going hard feel stabler likely due to stabilizing effect on pulling on the bars for power... but I would NEVER expected MBB to benefit from pedal extenders! Theoretically, the wider the q-factor, the greater pedal steering is when doing 'pure pushing' (should not matter when it comes to 'circle spinning' either way).
Admittedly, stance width is a personal thing, but unlike on DF, where Q-factor is an evil you must fight to the death, I've heard a lot about recumbent riders installing pedal extenders. Something interesting is going on here!

 

[jond]

You have S40? I thought larger trail would remedy high speed instability issue, it seems like it is not enough. Of course, you eventually get used to that. My first MBB had short trail (about 3cm, to battle flop) and was kinda scary downhill... and, actually, kept being scary - once I've been travelling at 40 mph downhill and was buffeted by a passing truck - that was the scariest experience of my life.
But I guess it is a question of 'how much is enough' - Rojoracing actually exceeded 100 kmh on one very steep downhill, though I recall he mentioned that it was still a scary experience.

My current one (only 6cm of trail, but zero flop due to 90 deg steering angle) seems rock stable at ALL speeds, but I'm yet to exceed 50 kmh - my aerodynamics is decent for a fully suspended bent with fat tires, but definitely not good enough to pedal 50+ kmh on level ground (plus I could only fit MTB chainset), and nearest decent hill quite far .



Is there some consensus about that somewhere? I don't understand how boom orientation can help with slow speed stability (aerodynamics - sure).

From my reading of forum it would seem that mbb is acclimated best on t 50 etc low B.B. and higher back angle. So likely that combination is easier to start on rather than jumping on most aero position vendetta for your body.

I’ve only ridden a vendetta with large chain stays V2/v20 with V2 having a slightly higher B.B. and most horizontal slider/boom .

I think it is likely harder at 20 deg than 45 or higher to get the nuanced feel of mbb.

Most things I’ve read seem to anecdotally agree but once read the opposite.

For a trial try out most people seem to ride a Q etc. but that might also be because crashing ratz s ultra expensive vendetta is not allowed and easier adjustment.

 

[jond]

Going hard feel stabler likely due to stabilizing effect on pulling on the bars for power... but I would NEVER expected MBB to benefit from pedal extenders! Theoretically, the wider the q-factor, the greater pedal steering is when doing 'pure pushing' (should not matter when it comes to 'circle spinning' either way).
Admittedly, stance width is a personal thing, but unlike on DF, where Q-factor is an evil you must fight to the death, I've heard a lot about recumbent riders installing pedal extenders. Something interesting is going on here!

Yes reckon pedal extenders would exacerbate pedal steer. I guess paco must have broad hips and tall as a tree. No offence paco I’m pretty tall for my height too

I’ve got a 2017 cf fat bike. Widest Q factor of any type mass produced bike.

When standing it seemingly feels oddly wider with effort. However there are nil issues from a pedalling mechanical physiology pain perspective. I imagine short riders would feel it more. Given the choice I much prefer the narrower Q factor of my other bikes. Familiarity engineering and scientific evaluation I guess gave us what we have with the bikes and that suits most of us.

I hear those pedal extenders weigh 50 milligrams..........and it’s probably just a lot of hot air up your shorts lol

 

[Balor]

From my reading of forum it would seem that mbb is acclimated best on t 50 etc low B.B. and higher back angle. So likely that combination is easier to start on rather than jumping on most aero position vendetta for your body.

Well, it is *obviously* easier to keep your balance sitting up, because you can still use your body English to a large extent, carrying over your DF skills. Plus, it is easier when you are high up - you have larger time window for balance corrections, and sitting up (and generally having seat much higher) also rises CG.

Still, sitting bolt upright and having hands straight enough on a bent with little recline makes for 'positive tiller' (as in - stem length as on DF, as compared to reverse on most bents) - and that is not a very good design for bar pulling, cause it causes unstable equilibrium - and you WANT your steering to be at stable equilibrium at all time, otherwise it feels, well, unstable.

It might explain why some people found Vendetta to be more stable, once they accustomed to reclined position - it has a decent tiller length, not too large (also a bad thing), not too small...

 

[paco1961]

Going hard feel stabler likely due to stabilizing effect on pulling on the bars for power... but I would NEVER expected MBB to benefit from pedal extenders! Theoretically, the wider the q-factor, the greater pedal steering is when doing 'pure pushing' (should not matter when it comes to 'circle spinning' either way).
Admittedly, stance width is a personal thing, but unlike on DF, where Q-factor is an evil you must fight to the death, I've heard a lot about recumbent riders installing pedal extenders. Something interesting is going on here!

Agree entirely on the theory part - pedal extenders would seem to lead to increased instability but the contrary has been my experience. And the difference is quite dramatic. Actually installed the extenders to give me a bit more room for clipping out with a left leg w limited rotation flexibility

 

[paco1961]

Yes reckon pedal extenders would exacerbate pedal steer. I guess paco must have broad hips and tall as a tree. No offence paco I’m pretty tall for my height too

I’ve got a 2017 cf fat bike. Widest Q factor of any type mass produced bike.

When standing it seemingly feels oddly wider with effort. However there are nil issues from a pedalling mechanical physiology pain perspective. I imagine short riders would feel it more. Given the choice I much prefer the narrower Q factor of my other bikes. Familiarity engineering and scientific evaluation I guess gave us what we have with the bikes and that suits most of us.

I hear those pedal extenders weigh 50 milligrams..........and it’s probably just a lot of hot air up your shorts lol

The extenders May in fact increase pedal steer. But that’s not the issue for me. I find the occasional high speed wobble that creeps in when I either think too much or too little, is much easier to resolve - and it doesn’t show up as often. Coasting downhill at 30mph is much less eventful with the wider stance. Still on the learning curve. . .

 

[Balor]

Agree entirely on the theory part - pedal extenders would seem to lead to increased instability but the contrary has been my experience. And the difference is quite dramatic.

Yea, very very interesting. Temped to give it whirl myself (though I am not a THAT a large guy, 180 cm - a bit short of full 6 feet as much as I understand imperial)!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/One...-for-MTB-Road-Bicycle-Pedals/32858607249.html

It may help me as well - I have bit of a thigh interference they might alleviate, though I am already using MTB cranks and I distinctly recall not liking Fat bike Q-factor much.
Might try them on my first, negative angle prototype while I'm at it...

Given how much of a Clyde I am, I'd never risk them on DF, but on a bent - why not? If it works well enough, this power meter instantly sounds more appealing:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1468298434/cycling-power-meter-at-a-breakthrough-price

Still, I suspect it comes to stance width and if your q-factor is narrower than your stance width - than it actually makes sense that you would pedal 'inward' hence exacerbating pedal steer.

 

[Balor]

Coasting downhill at 30mph is much less eventful with the wider stance. Still on the learning curve. . .

Hmm, turns out I actually hit 30 mph on my previous ride (a very slight incline and bit of a tailwind).
https://www.strava.com/activities/1675821731/analysis

This hill is next!
https://www.strava.com/activities/1646777888/analysis/2819/2979
Given how much more aerodynamic cruzbike cockpit compared to HUGE open cockpit I was using is, I fully expect to hit about 40 mph.

I really wish I could compare my DIY bikes to a genuine cruzbike...

 

[bladderhead]

My ankles used to touch the ends of the BB axle. I was always trying to turn my feet in. I rode my Grasshopper for years like that. I found out about pedal extenders when someome on this forum mentioned them. So now I have them on both bikes. No difference in handling on the Silvio. I can do no-hands.

The Grasshopper has a slight tiller effect. The stem is almost parallel to the steering-axis. It always felt really stable. Until I got Tannus, which have made it wobbly.