S40-conversion to 2x

[Randyc3]

Hi,
Enjoying my new S40 but considering converting to a 2x. Has anyone tried adding new rings to the Sram Apex crank? Noticed today it has flats/flanges on both sides of the spider. Sram Tech already said it’s not possible but thought I would check with the group. Would like to save the crank. My objective is to get 122 gear inches & 25 gear inches (34-50 with 11-36). Will probably add QRings and leaning toward Shimano right now(less $ I think). Comments for derailleurs, shifters, cranks, etc welcome. Thanks.

 

[cpml123]

I think you also need to change the RD to the one that's for 2x11 because of parallelogram thing. My 2017 S40 is 2x10 with 52x34 front and 11x40 back. Good range.

 

[Randyc3]

Thanks. I’ll save me questions for Sunday.

 

[chicorider]

Hi Randy,

Your rear derailleur should be 2x ready. It is mainly limited by the size of the largest rear cog, rather than whether the front is 1x or 2x. The Apex 10-speed derailleur has a 32t max cog capacity, while the Apex 11-speed derailleur can handle up to 42t.

Your rear shifter should be similarly ready. If your left-side lever is 2x ready, then you're fine there too. If it just a brake lever, then you will need to replace that with a brake/shift combo lever (or add a front derailleur bar-end shifter--not that I recommend that, though it is an option).

For the crank, it would help to see a picture, or to know exactly which model within the Apex group it is. What you describe makes it sound 2x ready, but if it is the Apex 1x crank, the asymmetric 4-arm spider arm spacing might mean that larger chainrings aren't available (or even made), and this crank may have chainline spacing (how far in or out from the frame's bottom bracket the chainrings are) that makes it less 2x friendly for both chainline and front derailleur throw.

If you have to replace the crank, there are plenty of good options out there. But if you switch from a SRAM GXP crank to a Shimano crank, you will also need to replace the bottom bracket, which could negate what you might save on a Shimano crank. The SRAM and Shimano crank spindles look the same, but they aren't.

I hope this helps.

 

[Randyc3]

Hi,
Thank you for the response and info. Spoke with Rotor American yesterday. No rings for the Apex 1 crank. Sounds there are no after market rings made, so I will need to change the crank and probably BB. I have a new sram rival 22 crank now(170mm), but thinking I really need a 165mm or even a 160mm.
Thanks again.

 

[chicorider]

I am 5'5" and use 160mm cranks. Short enough to give me a proper 90 degree bend at the knee going into the power stroke, but still long enough to give me good leverage for climbing.

 

[Randyc3]

I am 5'5" and use 160mm cranks. Short enough to give me a proper 90 degree bend at the knee going into the power stroke, but still long enough to give me good leverage for climbing.

Hi,
Was surfing around the forum and saw you had sram apex 155mm. Still have them?
Thanks.

 

[chicorider]

Hi Randy,

No, I did end up selling them a little while back. It does take a some hunting, but you'll find a pair.

 

[Randyc3]

Thanks for the response. Thinking my preference might 160mm.

 

[ElyDave]

Hi Randy,

Your rear derailleur should be 2x ready. It is mainly limited by the size of the largest rear cog, rather than whether the front is 1x or 2x. The Apex 10-speed derailleur has a 32t max cog capacity, while the Apex 11-speed derailleur can handle up to 42t.

Your rear shifter should be similarly ready. If your left-side lever is 2x ready, then you're fine there too. If it just a brake lever, then you will need to replace that with a brake/shift combo lever (or add a front derailleur bar-end shifter--not that I recommend that, though it is an option).

For the crank, it would help to see a picture, or to know exactly which model within the Apex group it is. What you describe makes it sound 2x ready, but if it is the Apex 1x crank, the asymmetric 4-arm spider arm spacing might mean that larger chainrings aren't available (or even made), and this crank may have chainline spacing (how far in or out from the frame's bottom bracket the chainrings are) that makes it less 2x friendly for both chainline and front derailleur throw.

If you have to replace the crank, there are plenty of good options out there. But if you switch from a SRAM GXP crank to a Shimano crank, you will also need to replace the bottom bracket, which could negate what you might save on a Shimano crank. The SRAM and Shimano crank spindles look the same, but they aren't.

I hope this helps.

I'm curious, why not bar-end shifters?

This is exactly how I set my S40 up, with ultegra triple (52-42-32) and 10-sp 105 with ultegra bar-end shifters The right is indexed, left is friction.

I've been up 15% hills with a light touring load using a 30 tooth rear cog.

 

[chicorider]

Hi @ElyDave

Yeah, I didn't really offer an explanation there. Bar-end shifters work fine. No problems with their functionality. I am simply one of those who use a standard flared drop bar, and keep my hands on the "drops" most of the time, which puts my fingers right where they need to be to use my Shimano brifters. Braking and shifting is fast and intuitive. When I think of the added hand movements that bar-end shifters would require for my particular riding style, which could be extra dicey in situations that come on suddenly, I am pretty sue that that would not be a good move for me.

Like many things in CB Land, personal preference matters most.

 

[ElyDave]

True @chicorider , I've seen folks riding with bullbars, straight bars, all sorts. I still use the stock handlebars as I've not seen anything that I think would be better.

Picture of my ride below, my hands tend to rest on the "drops" most of the time, so close to the bar-ends and brakes within easy reach.

 

[Randyc3]

Hi,
Thanks.
Thinking I will keep the stock bars for now. Drive train change is to increase range. Almost spinning out on flat trails and roads not to mention down hills. I was hoping to find an old model Apex crank so I could use my Q rings or QXLs. No luck.
Update.
Met with my bike mechanic for suggestions. He had numerous approaches and mentioned using a mountain bike components with a flat bar.
Current thoughts.
-keep 11-42 cassette
-Sram GX 2x11 rear derailleur
-Sram Force 22 FD or Shimano R7000 or R8000 FD
-new chain
-Sram rival shifters(could keep right apex shifter, but it won’t match)
-Q rings, 34&52(12% ovality)
-Crank—Shimano 105(160mm) with BB or Rotor ALDHU 3D 160mm(if 30mm shaft and BSA converter BB will work)
-PM —- spider for Rotor or Favero Assioma DUO-Shi Power Meter Spindles+pedal
Still working my Excel spreadsheet for configurations and costs. Hoping for good weather this weekend to get some miles. Cheers and thanks again.

 

[ElyDave]

Personally I'd not go flatbar, because I think it would affect the steering too much on an S40 or V20, but that (as above) is just my personal preference.

 

[ChaleJake]

I have a Shimano FD r7000 that I just installed on my Silvio 2.1. Super easy to install but a few gymnastics are required to adjust the high and low limit screws. Shimano has a cable adjuster, that is a screw, located by the cable bolt. This eliminates the need for an inline adjuster. They also have two lines, that you ensure are aligned, so you have the correct tension. It made it easy, for a rookie, to set it up correctly.

Good luck with your decision. If you like your current handlebars….you might not want to swap them. Different widths etc can change the handling to less stable or maybe more stable. I like drop bars but I did switch to bars a bit narrower. For me, stability improved. I switched to bars approximately my shoulder width.

 

[Randyc3]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, I could see going to narrower bars would make it more stable. I'm starting to adapt to the sensitivity. Balancing 4 inputs for steering is starting to grow on me.
Safe riding.

 

[bladderhead]

I think that drop bars give you a more comfortable and more powerful hand-position than flat bars. I think that lots of people here agree with this. I thought that the curve on the drops of the Cruzbike bars of my Silvio were too tight for my hands. I am sure old-fashioned racer bars had drops with a bigger radius. I now have Crononero, which put my hands in the drop-bar position without the curve. They are also slightly narrower than the Cruzbike bars.

I have the bar-ends sticking up, but the problem with this configuration is that the cable-routing is really awkward. With drop-bars, the cables loop up and inwards and down towards the steerer. On a MTB the cable-routing is similar. I have to have MTB levers upside-down, which means the cables point downwards. This problem can be avoided by having the bar-ends sticking down, but then they poke me in the legs and make tight turns impossible.

Flat bars with stuck-up ends is better than flat bars if you ignore the cable-routing.

If you do yoga, there is a position called the Limit Screw. You have to be very advanced to do it.

 

[3bs]

when i converted my s40 over i went sram apex cranks
34/50 front rings
force yaw front mech
rival rear mech
11-36 10 speed
rival brifters.
avid mechanical calipers.

did as good as a cruzbike can do in the mountains. on the steepest grades, i had wheel slip before i was unable to pedal.

 

[Randyc3]

Thanks.
Update.
Chatted with Jonathan at Rose City Recumbent Cycles. He suggested a Fovno RC-216 crankset. Ordered it yesterday. Older style crank so should be able to use my old QXL or Q-rings. Found Sram GX 2x11 rear derailleur probably won’t work with the Rivals so will be switching to Sram GX(10sp).

 

[Randyc3]

Hi,
My 2x configuration:
-original 11-42 cassette
-Sram GX rear derailleur(10sp)
-Sram Force 22 FD
-new chain
-Sram rival 22 shifters
-Quarq Red crank arms(162.5)
-Quarq DZero power meter(from my Roubaix SL4)
-QXL rings(36-52 from my Roubaix SL4)
Thanks to Sram & Quarq tech support, Rosecity Recumbent Cycles(Jonathan &Robert) and Woodinville Cycles for help.
Now, if it would just stop raining for a few hours so I can ride few miles.